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Making a federal case out of Zipcar fees
By adamg on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 9:10am
An Illinois man says fees charged by Zipcar on top of its normal charges (such as late fees and forcing people to reserve a car for an hour if they remember later in the day they forgot something in the car) are unfair and violate Massachusetts law, so yesterday he filed suit in US District Court in Boston, seeking $5 million for himself and other Zipcar customers (and, of course, his lawyers).
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Comments
Um, he does not have to use
Um, he does not have to use the service and they are quite upfront about how the system works. If he does not like it he should encourage Flex car to take up shop here, take the T or possibly buy his own car and really find out the meaning of the word senseless uncaring fees.
There is no Flex
They were bought out by Zipcar a few years ago.
Tragedy of the commons
As a Zipcar customer, I sure hope he DOESN'T win. I want the late fees to be as excessive as the market will allow. I rely on the car I reserved being ready at the time I reserved it, and that means a strong incentive for Zipcar customers (including me!) to return their cars on time.
I can see an argument for allowing you to return and get your belongings, but unless their existing infrastructure differentiates between "Jim is allowed to enter this car" and "Jim is allowed to start this car's engine", it'd be a lot of work for limited benefit.
What Next?
Suing libraries? College libraries charge late fees, and some of them are private!
Nevertheless, there are
Nevertheless, there are dozens of other car sharing companies and NGO's in the US, Canada and Europe that somehow manage to provide a similar/better service than Zipcar without structuring their fees/penalties to be a profit making aspect of the business.
Take parking fines for example, people rage when the operation is outsourced to a private company that starts treating it as a profit making opportunity rather than a bad behavior deterring effort. This is no different and therefore I agree that some limits should be imposed on how much and when Zipcar can charge people. I hope he wins and this sets precedent for this industry and others!
Sounds like he has some legit complaints, though
You shouldn't have to pay for customer service if you can't get the car you reserved out of its garage -- which was one of his complaints.
Ding ding
That's just the start of Zipcar's many problems. Other problems:
-The cars are getting to be pretty ratty. I've driven cars that sounded like they were going to explode once you hit 25 mph, cars that had flashing engine lights, cars that were overdue for oil changes, cars that did little to nothing when you mashed the accelerator to the floor. Zipcar isn't fixing body damage- one car I rented had a hole punched in the bumper, a dent in the other, and scratches. Some was obviously old (rusted.) You're supposed to report any existing damage, or you run the risk of being held responsible.
-Their text message service is flaky as hell (ie the "your rental is up in ____ minutes, text ____ to extend the rental by 30 minutes.") I did this, then found an email the next morning informing me I'd be charged a $50 late fee. Three phone calls later (I was forced to call the "local" office after calling the 800 number- apparently the 800 number doesn't "do that") and a long argument followed, then eventually someone pulled their head out of their ass and admitted they'd been having issues with the system.
-They're overselling their service. You pay for a membership, yet very often nothing is available in your area for miles around. Depending on the area, unless you book a car days in advance, you can forget about having one at any point during Friday night or a weekend.
-Many of the locations are awkwardly placed in relation to public transit. Usually there is nowhere to lock a bike.
-Cars sometimes are nowhere to be found. I rented a car 45 minutes before I wanted it, went to the lot, couldn't find it anywhere. Spent 15 minutes on hold waiting to talk to someone. "Where is the car?" "We don't know." "What do you mean you don't know? They all have GPS units in them!" "The car wasn't returned as scheduled several hours ago, we contacted fleet services." We then discussed how I'd wasted 15 minutes talking to them, was late, and, NO, I was NOT going to pay more for the car they were moving me to. So, car is reported missing hours ago, yet they still list it as available? WTF? When I got home, it still wasn't back- and when I went to my apartment, it was still showing as available.
-People steal/lose/eat the parking pass and gas cards. Extra fun, especially when you need to get out of the parking garage using that pass. I was informed by the lot supervisor that he'd been having renters call Zipcar for two days to complain that the parking pass was gone. Called Zipcar, they said "we know, we called fleet services and asked them to replace the card." The card disappeared two days ago, what, they had to drive from California to replace it?
AOL
No, not LOL, AOL - as in "this sounds like what happened when AOL expanded and took on more customers than it could handle at a decent service level".
I haven't used Zipcar in a long time - not since I got a reliable vehicle of my own and the kids got big enough to take the bus themselves. They didn't seem to have a problem in Cambridge/Somerville and Tuftsland years ago.
Wow...
...you've had some exceptionally bad luck. I've been a Zipcar member since 2003 and none of those things you describe has ever happened to me. I'm not saying it's perfect by any means, but when I've encountered minor issues I've never had a problem getting them resolved quickly and painlessly over the phone.
It's true that they have some policies that aren't well-publicized, or mentioned at all on the web site. Some of them are actually to memebers' benefit and save members money, so it cuts both ways.
As for ending up a member with no cars "for miles around" -- you can check on cars/locations before you join; if there's nothing for miles around you, a membership is obviously not going to be a great value to you.
One tip/workaround: if you need to retrieve something from the vehicle more than 3 hours after your reservation ends, call them and tell them you accidentally slipped the gas card or parking pass into your pocket and you need to return it -- they'll open the car for you free of charge. You'll probably be found out if the car's been taken by someone else in the meantime -- but it's worth a shot to avoid an hour charge on your bill.
when I've encountered minor
when I've encountered minor issues I've never had a problem getting them resolved quickly and painlessly over the phone.
And when I've had problems, it's ranged from 5-15 minute wait to talk to someone, and then I find out that Zipcar was told of the problem ages ago, did jack shit about it, and is cheerily telling me they'll get someone right on it.
When a car goes missing for a couple of hours, there's NO EXCUSE for continuing to offer the car for rental and then having people rely on that. There was one other car left in the lot- if it hadn't been available, I would have been completely screwed. As it was, I was late by 20 minutes!
There's two sides to customer relations: 1)Doing a competent enough job that customers get what they expect, and then 2)Handling things quickly and satisfactorily when they don't. Zipcar is a pile of steaming fail on both, for me.
In short: can't be depended on, pain in the ass, and least available when you most need it.
PS:Is it me, or are there more sock puppets in this story than a PBS kids program (or an Amazon page)? All of the sudden we have a zillion unregistered users talking about how Zipcar is better than sliced bread on the table of the second coming of Christ.
Where you get your Zipcar can be an issue
Zipcar had a lot of trouble expanding in to NYC because the demand was very high and people had trouble returning the cars on time, fueling them, etc.
I suspect that your area has far more demand than supply, judging from the lack of available cars in the area. This demand is clearly straining the system. I also suspect that whoever is supposed to be servicing your area is either overburdened or is otherwise not on the job.
You might try contacting the corporate organization and asking for some answers as to why things aren't put right when you report them.
One thing I can't figure out: when zipcar first started, I saw more large groups piling out at places like Costco. Now there are more single drivers. Have people simply forgotten how to carpool?
I am not a sock puppet
My spousal unit is a member for days when we both need the car for work (she works jobs of an hour or two at a time and I'd need the car at work all day, so she does Zipcar and I take our car). We also rent trucks from them when we need a pickup. We've never had a single problem with Zipcar. And there are a buttload of them around our house. We've mentioned being annoyed that we log on to find one and have to sort through all 50 cars that are available in the block of time we need. Where do you live?
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Sounds like a screwed up situation
My guess is two-fold as to how someone would occur a service charge due to complaining about not being able to access a Zipcar. 1) The customer complains that they can't access a car and decide to not accept the alternative provided by Zipcar and request a complete change/cancellation in reservation rather than the valid solution Zipcar came up with. 2) The operator screws up and logs the change in reservation without unclicking the box that says that a service fee should be attached.
I have spoken to an operator before when someone poorly parked a Zipcar so badly that I could not fit the one I was returning at the time. They remotely unlocked the doors to allow me to re-park it and then relocked the doors, all while staying on the phone with me, and did not charge me a thing to do so. I have also talked to an operator about other issues I have had and have never paid any fee to do so. I have found them MORE than accommodating in every way.
The ONLY time I noticed a glitch in their software was when I was informed that a reservation I had made was for a car involved in an accident. They moved my reservation to another nearby car that was available. However, I had reserved a full day rental (heavily discounted compared to 24xHourly rate). The car they moved me to was a Prius, which is no longer allowed to be rented on a daily rate because its hourly rate is reduced to entice more turnover (uses less gas, etc). Their software had me down for 24xPriusHourly at almost twice what I was going to pay for my previous rental. I caught it in time and complained and they moved me to a daily rate on a different car, but I could imagine being really pissed if I hadn't double-checked their website after having dealt with the initial switch only via e-mail. However, I'm also pretty sure that if I complained later they would have given me a compensatory credit on my account because their operator suggested that remedy and to let me keep the Prius for the whole day instead of switching to a third car.
I've had 99% excellent
I've had 99% excellent experience with Zipcar. The customer service is indeed free, and the one time they had to move me to another car (mechanical issues), I got the same price as the original and a couple hours' extra driving credit. The only problem I've ever experienced was when they notified me that someone had complained about me (the last renter) smoking in a car...but I don't smoke. That I found a little irritating, that the complaint system is more of a "he said, she said" type of mechanism.
I've had 99% excellent
I've had 99% excellent experience with Zipcar. The customer service is indeed free, and the one time they had to move me to another car (mechanical issues), I got the same price as the original and a couple hours' extra driving credit.
You have to practically demand the driving credit.
The only problem I've ever experienced was when they notified me that someone had complained about me (the last renter) smoking in a car...but I don't smoke. That I found a little irritating, that the complaint system is more of a "he said, she said" type of mechanism.
Yup. I got a bitchy email from a Zipcar rep, demanding to know where I'd left the car. The gas station where Zipcar stores some cars kept parking their own cars in zipcar spaces. The attendant swore he'd move the car into the proper space later (they have a card that works on all the cars at their location.)
I reminded the rep that I'd filed SEVERAL complaints with Zipcar about this particular location, how more than half the time I came back to find the gas station had parked their own cars in spots marked only for Zipcars. Dead silence, not even an effin' "oh, gee, sorry, you're right!" or "ok, we'll talk to them."
Demand driving credit?
Maybe you don't get such great response from them because of your demeanor going in. Just a thought, because they practically throw free driving credit at me.
I did a website interview with them for improving their service over a year ago and they gave me $50 in driving credit. I donated my car to Habitat4Humanity in a joint charity drive with Zipcar and got about $500 driving credit. I have gone to a few of their local party/events, like the one a while back at Kings Bowling, and won another $25 in driving credit on a wheel of free stuff that everyone could spin, new and old users alike. I found a webcode that I inserted on one of their pages and got $25 of driving credit at one point....there was a period where I was basically driving around on Zipcar for free for like 6 months or more. I have a feeling that if I ever complained about a problem with the service that they felt badly about, they'd give me some more driving credit. It's like the most satisfying customer service experience I've ever had with any company.
Oh yeah, same here
We've won a bunch of free driving credits at Boston Pride and various environmental fairs. Good stuff.
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Um, I definitely didn't
Um, I definitely didn't demand it. I didn't even have to ask.
It does
If I forget my cellphone in a Zipcar -- which I've done -- I can go back within an hour and fetch it out free of charge, as long as I don't start the car.
You have 3 hours total
The complaint is that after 3 hours, you have to pay for an hour to gain access again and that this is not clear in their contract or other information prior to becoming a member.
Personally, if you can't remember to take your stuff out of the car, then I think you're lucky Zipcar gives you 3 hours of free access. Also, I've noticed people are MORE than accomodating to other peoples' stuff being left in the car, including one person's purchased CDs that remained in a car local to me for over a month.
Indeed
I have no beef with Zipcar's customer service, just with some of their customers. Particularly the people who return the cars with about a shot glass full of gas in them.
There was a 25-pound sack of dog food in the back of a Scion xB near my house for over three months.
So there won't be any
So there won't be any complaints around here about bank ATM fees, credit card interest rates and late fees, home mortgages, etc.
Right?
paying to get your stuff back
I have to say that that one blew my mind when a telephone rep told me about it. I didn't reserve the car for another hour. Instead, I laughed and laughed. Then I got the rep to tell me when the car would next be arriving in dock. At the appointed hour I laid in wait for it until it (its name was Fern, as I recall) got back to the lot. I asked the driver to hand me my item, which he was glad to do, free of charge. But that's not Zipcar protocol.
I expect Blay will win in MA on stuff retrieval. Late fees, not so much.
No problems here
I've had a Zipcar account for a little over a year now and I've yet to run into any problems.
The cars are always where they're supposed to be (and the one time it wasn't, they gave me the next closest car for the same price), they've always been clean and in perfect working condition, I've never been stuck with less than a quarter of a tank, the keys and gas cards have always been there, and the first and only time I was ever late returning it (by about 12 minutes) they removed the $50 late fee after I called and politely plead my case.
I've also rarely had trouble finding a car in my area (previously Somerville/Cambridge, now Savin Hill). Even when trying to book a car with 30 minutes or an hour notice, there's always been one within a half mile of me.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about; maybe I've just been lucky.
Also lucky
I've had nearly the identical experience: customer for about a year; late once but with an explanation, late fee amiably waived; reserved car missing, seamlessly upgraded to nearest car (three blocks away) with no surcharge. The only time a (non-premium) car hasn't been available in the immediate area (South End/Back Bay) on short notice was college move-in weekend last month.
The only "extra" fee I've paid is for going over 180 miles. That can get very expensive very quickly (around $.50/mile) but it's made clear up front. I learned my lesson and now go to Avis if I'm going to pile on the miles.
Every customer service person I've talked to has been pleasant and accommodating and, based on their accents and local knowledge, local. I assume calls are routed to a local rep based on customer ID.
I use ZipCar 20-30 hours a month. At that usage level it costs less and is more convenient than owning.
I didn't pay to get my stuff.
Is paying to get your stuff out of the car a new thing? I took a car on the 4th of July, dropped it back off, then about 8 hours later realized I left my house keys in it.
They made me reserve the car for an hour, I got my keys, then called back and they fixed it so it wouldn't charge me.
My friend didn't realize he
My friend didn't realize he left his wallet in a car 'till about 7 hours later. I didn't even have to reserve and then cancel; they let me in the car, stayed on the phone until I found it (some customer who had the car later actually put it in the glovebox) and then locked it up for me.
I too have had no problems with zipcar, other then the brakes on a jetta I drive frequently going. However I'm guessing its just that no one has reported it. All in all I (and two of my friends who also frequent zipcar) have had extremely positive experiences.
DId you report the bad brakes?
And if not, do you really want to wait for someone else to?
Reporting is hard
Well, OK, it's not -hard-, but unless it's changed recently, it requires waiting on hold and talking to a human. I once tried to report something minor (low wiper fluid or something like that) by responding to the "we hope your rental went well" e-mail, and they replied that I should call the hotline for things like that.
It should be a no-brainer: when I return the car, ask me by e-mail/text if there was anything I noticed that needed fixing, and let me tell you with one click.
Last time I reported damage
I called the toll-free number, used the menu to get to "report damage" and then left a message as prompted. Next time I used the car, the damage was repaired. Didn't have to wait to talk to anyone and it wasn't difficult at all.
depends who you talk to
I had left my cell phone in a car that was booked all day but just sitting outside my house. The first zipcar rep I spoke to told me they couldn't open the doors and I'd have to book it for an hour to get the phone back, which I wouldn't be able to do until the next day.
Luckily I called back and the next rep happily popped the doors for me, no fuss, so if you get jammed up this way just try calling back.
While were on the topic of
While were on the topic of zipcar, anyone care to comment on the insurance part of it? I heard they now offer proper coverage.
before, they only offered basic coverage that basically screwed the drive if he was found at fault in an accident. the car would be covered, but all other damage and medical coverage was essentially zero, and they'd even go after you for the car deductible.
Only way around it was to buy supplemental private coverage, which then really didn't make sense for those of us thinking on switching and getting rid of an already paid off car.
Nopee
Nope, never had more than isolated problems, here and there.
ALWAYS have cars where and when I want them
ALWAYS have more than 1/4 of tank (2x they didn't and I emailed and they apologized)
ALWAYS have gas and parking cards
ALWAYS cheap rental fees
ALWAYS clean (eh, mostly, really)
Love the service.
Yes, you can get back in if you forget something. I think it's an hour but maybe I'm wrong.
I forgot to put the gas card back in one time and had to reserve the car for a half hour (not an hour?) in order to put it back. Yes, I was mad at the time, but I've gotten over it. I could afford the $4.75 it took to do so.
Nothing wrong with zipcar fees
Just try renting a car from any other company and see if you get treated as nice. The late fees are reasonable. I've never been charged if I need to call someone to fix a reservation. I've left headphones in an enterprise rental and never saw them again. If I forget something in a zipcar, they unlock it for free. The $20 a month he is talking about is in his plan, and it's optional. The only complaint that makes any sense is that you can't challenge tickets in court without paying fees. I bet a few calls to customer service would fix these problems. They sound like misunderstandings to me.
Oh, absolutely worth it for the upfrontness of the fees
Ever rent a $19.95 UHaul pickup or van? It's not $19.95 when you go to pay for it. We loooove Zipcar's pickups for moving furniture and whatnot.
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Non-Zipcar alternative: Home Depot
Dunno if they still offer it, but Home Depot used to have a few rack trucks available to take home your large purchase. I think they were $20/hr.
And if you live right near a Home Depot, well... turns out they don't actually require you to BUY something big from Home Depot when you rent the truck, so...
convenient.
Strings attached
Home Depot requires you to show your own automobile registration and insurance policy to rent one of their trucks. The first time I wanted to rent one, I didn't own a car, hence wanting to rent their truck. Can't do it; they don't insure their fleet. The next time, I did own a car, but I don't have the insurance coverage that extends to cars that aren't mine. Read your fine print; most people don't. Just as an experiment, I showed them my registration and insurance. They were ready to hand me the keys. I told her that my policy doesn't cover other vehicles, and she said they just needed to see any valid policy. So they were willing to let me drive their vehicle without insurance coverage. Yeah, not about to do that. Thanks.
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Insurance on Rental Cars
I thought that ANY MA insurance policy extended to a rental car.
Maybe you didn't have comprehensive? That would make sense. Otherwise, I have always turned down the CDW nonsense because I'm covered - at least in the US. My dad just payed it in Canada.
I was always under the
I was always under the impression that even basic insurance covered you if you were driving another car? I know that when I lived at home I had to sign a waiver that I would not touch my parents car, ever, which allowed them to have their normal priced insurance without the extra liability of a teen male driver.
In the case of a rental they would have insurance to cover themselves because people will go after both the driver and the rental company. Home Depot would still have insurance to cover themselves but they do not want to be left holding the bag alone in case you crash.
Long time Zipcar members...
We've been with Zipcar from almost the beginning and have had at least 97% hassle free experience. When we've a problem– low gas, missing car, filthy car, late car... it is because some self-centered member of the Zipcar community was to blame.
We report all issues like this but suspect we are rare in reporting. Unless we, as members, help the company weed out the people who can't or won't play by the rules, we'll all suffer.
Zipcar has always done their best to make up for what has happened with driving credits and quick service. If you are not getting the response you want, send an email to Zipcar about it.
The one time we found ourselves in a big traffic jam and were going to be late, we called early enough to have the customer service rep reach the next member. They really wanted the Mini that we had not a substitute car. With help from Zipcar we were able to deliver it (about 15 minutes late) to their home. This was much better than having them walk to the alley where it was stored and wait for us to arrive.
On every Zipcar survey that asks, I vote for higher fines. But, I've also suggested that a percentage of the fine go to the reporting member as driving credits. That would increase the reporting rate and weed out the cause of the problems.
While this is a business, it is also a community of sorts. We can help to make it better by our own actions and choices.
Reporting problems
The one thing about reports of misuse is that, as someone mentioned above, it can be a "he said, she said" kind of situation - we got reprimanded for leaving food trash in a car that wasn't, in fact, ours. (It's true that the experience has made up SUPER cautious about eating in the car, though!)
Overall, though, we've had a pretty painless time of it as Zipcar members since we gave up our old beater about 2.5 years ago. The one bad thing is that they've been reducing the number of cars in our neighborhood. The high point of excellence was the first summer we were members, when there was a group of cars a short block from our house; this fall, however, they eliminated a couple of local sites completely and reduced the number of cars in all of the others (in one case from 5 cars to 2!) There are now only ten cars within a half-mile of our house, and in a dense neighborhood with a lot of members, that means we do have to plan ahead for pretty much any weekend use.
Noticed that too in Brighton
I had 4 cars within a tenth of a mile of my house at a single location. That's down to 1 car currently now, although there's still a second sign/space reserved, so I'm guessing a new fleet car will arrive very soon. However, I did have about 3-4 new locations open up with 2 cars each...just twice as far away as my old spot. So, it's become a little less convenient for me and if I want "*really* convenient", then I have to plan ahead, but I can usually still come up with a car *somewhere* within a half-mile at the last minute as necessary.
I have a feeling they're thinning their herd a bit right now to save on some cash and get a more even distribution. I did notice at times that at least 1 of the 4 cars was almost *always* ready to go, even mid-day on a Saturday.