I am. When the driver j-hooked me and knocked me to the pavement this week, I got endless apologies, but no java. We were at a Dunkin' too. I don't know how to cut a deal. "I'm so sorry. I feel terrible," doesn't fill the cup literally or figuratively.
I have a question for you. When a car is preparing to make a right turn while driving on a road that has a bike lane, should the car merge into the bike lane as it approaches the turn? I believe I read that in the MA driver's manual, but I can't find it now.
The bike lane is for bikes.
Approach the intersection in your lane, SIGNAL. check to make sure there are no oncoming bicycles and then turn right. If there is a bicycle coming you are required to wait until they are clear before you turn.
I really dislike the "merge into the bike lane" for two reasons:
1. the drivers rarely yield to bikes when doing so
2. The car blocks the lane when waiting for pedestrians to cross and bikes cannot move forward or turn while the car is doing so.
Maybe most drivers I have encountered are just clueless that they have to look and yield at all in any way, or that "merge into the lane" means something other than "1/4 mile before the turn to squeeze around traffic", but I find it far better when people stop and wait and don't block the lane.
From the above comment, it appears that that is the law, too.
You're driving a car in the left lane of a two lane road and approach an intersection to make a right turn. What should you do?
Answer - you are supposed to merge into the right lane before making the turn. It is both improper and very poor driving to make a right turn from a left lane. And it is totally irrelevant as to whether that right lane you are merging into is for cars or bikes.
And, with respect, your argument that a right-turning vehicle stopped in the bike lane for a pedestrian or a red light forces the bicylist to also stop has no merit. So you're sightly delayed because the vehicle in front of you is obeying the law - what is the issue here?
Well, for starters, I had a conversation about this with a Somerville police officer just the other night r.e. Willow Ave and they do ticket drivers who drive in the bike lane. You are only allowed to "merge in" where the line becomes dashed.
But don't let that reality hit you in the rump - or the reality that most cars don't fit in most bike lanes.
Other than that "my issue" is that in my 25-30 years of cycling experience - 25 years in MA with lanes around for 10 of that - it is the DRIVERS who have a BIG PROBLEM waiting their turn. Riding through Cambridge and Somerville, I see repeated failures of vehicles to yield to cyclists in the lane. Check out Beacon and Washington Street at morning rush hour some time.
Now let's look at your "example" which is irrelevant to the actual laws, but I'll humor you: when you change lanes to make that turn in your own example, you DO NOT GET TO JUST VEER OVER AND CHANGE LANES TO MAKE THAT TURN! You DO NOT have the right of way. You MUST YIELD TO TRAFFIC IN THAT LANE - i.e. to the vehicles that are already there or oncoming.
Even in Massachusetts. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to cross the cellular addled minds of most heavy equipment operators, who veer over regardless of whether or not they actually have the right to do so.
More Examples of limits to privileges of drivers: YOU DO NOT GET TO DRIVE A FULL BLOCK DOWN THE BIKE LANE to make your turn (see above). Nor do you get to pull slightly ahead of the stop line on a red light and "start" your right turn while blocking 10 cyclists waiting behind the stop line who had the right of way just because you are too important and you decided to play car privilege games. You do not have the right to honk at a cyclist who is waiting in the lane for the light just because you merged into the lane behind and want to take a right (Cambridge Cops like to pick these off - especially when they are right wing bumpersticker covered NH plate pickup trucks and there is a no-turn on red in a construction zone).
ALL CAPS because you clearly missed some stuff in my above post, and I thought you might need some help with comprehension.
Unfortunately, yielding is not just a problem with bike lanes, but increasingly with regular travel lanes as well. As a friend of mine (who has long since left Massachusetts) once stated: "90% of the drivers on the road consider themselves to have well above average skills behind the wheel. At least 75% of those people are just plain wrong."
As for the law about drivers not being allowed to occupy the bike lane (yes, "merge" is not the proper term here) before right-turning at an intersection, I feel that it may actually contribute to the "J-hooking" problem.
Why? If you let drivers access the bike lane in preparation for a right turn (within reason of course and provided they look and yield), that gives the approaching bicyclist an additional clue that the driver might be making a right turn. In addition, when drivers make turns, they are most concerned about completing the turn and may be less likely to look and yield when making the actual maneuver at the intersection than if they are merging into the right lane in preparing for the right turn.
Not to mention the fact that this is precisely the behavior most drivers employ when a roadway has a narrow shoulder not designated as a bike lane (remember the term "tight right" from driving school). Having two sets of rules for a similar pavement marking situation (wide car lane with narrow area to the right) makes no sense at all.
Of course, this also raises the issue about whether bike lanes are actually a safe design, but that's another matter altogether.
I suspect that the outcome of the encounter was highly influenced by the presence of a reporter taking photographs.
As for the issue of a car moving over into a bike lane when making a right turn, at MOST intersections where a bike lane has been marked, the solid white line becomes a dashed line near the corner, thus indicating it is legal to cross in preparation of making a right turn. It's up to the drivers and bicyclist to cooperate so it's safe. If I've indicating my car's right turn and shift into the bike lane, and a bike comes up from behind, the rider shouldn't "move up" to the corner.
If you "shift" into the bike lane, you're in the wrong place according to the law. I don't care if you're signaling a right turn or the coming Armageddon. If you don't look back down the bike lane before making your right turn and you end up cutting off a bicyclist in the bike lane, you're in the wrong again according to the law. I don't care if you have to sit in the right lane with your blinker on until the entire Tour de France pedals by.
Does that mean that bikes have more priority than cars, especially when bike lanes are concerned? Yes, I guess it does. Tough. If you want your priority to the road back, get a bike.
This morning i was on the give way and was waiting to turn right into a main road, a car from my right gave me the way and i pulled in and waited to get way from the cars coming from the left, while i was stationary, suddenly a bicyle came from my right hand side and hit to my front trye,, the collison wasn't very hard but I am wondering whose fault was it??
Comments
probably because he was able to shake hands, walk, etc.
Some of us haven't been so lucky...
Considering the biker
Considering the biker doesn't seem to have been wearing a helmet, he's especially lucky.
Poor negotiation...
I am. When the driver j-hooked me and knocked me to the pavement this week, I got endless apologies, but no java. We were at a Dunkin' too. I don't know how to cut a deal. "I'm so sorry. I feel terrible," doesn't fill the cup literally or figuratively.
I have a question for you.
I have a question for you. When a car is preparing to make a right turn while driving on a road that has a bike lane, should the car merge into the bike lane as it approaches the turn? I believe I read that in the MA driver's manual, but I can't find it now.
Do Not merge into the bike lane.
The bike lane is for bikes.
Approach the intersection in your lane, SIGNAL. check to make sure there are no oncoming bicycles and then turn right. If there is a bicycle coming you are required to wait until they are clear before you turn.
Good information on the laws: http://www.massbike.org/bike-law-update/
YES the right-turning car should merge into the bike lane
The alternative is a right turn across the bike lane which is VERY dangerous for the bicyclist. Don't ever do that.
I disagree
I really dislike the "merge into the bike lane" for two reasons:
1. the drivers rarely yield to bikes when doing so
2. The car blocks the lane when waiting for pedestrians to cross and bikes cannot move forward or turn while the car is doing so.
Maybe most drivers I have encountered are just clueless that they have to look and yield at all in any way, or that "merge into the lane" means something other than "1/4 mile before the turn to squeeze around traffic", but I find it far better when people stop and wait and don't block the lane.
From the above comment, it appears that that is the law, too.
Question:
You're driving a car in the left lane of a two lane road and approach an intersection to make a right turn. What should you do?
Answer - you are supposed to merge into the right lane before making the turn. It is both improper and very poor driving to make a right turn from a left lane. And it is totally irrelevant as to whether that right lane you are merging into is for cars or bikes.
And, with respect, your argument that a right-turning vehicle stopped in the bike lane for a pedestrian or a red light forces the bicylist to also stop has no merit. So you're sightly delayed because the vehicle in front of you is obeying the law - what is the issue here?
My issue?
Well, for starters, I had a conversation about this with a Somerville police officer just the other night r.e. Willow Ave and they do ticket drivers who drive in the bike lane. You are only allowed to "merge in" where the line becomes dashed.
But don't let that reality hit you in the rump - or the reality that most cars don't fit in most bike lanes.
Other than that "my issue" is that in my 25-30 years of cycling experience - 25 years in MA with lanes around for 10 of that - it is the DRIVERS who have a BIG PROBLEM waiting their turn. Riding through Cambridge and Somerville, I see repeated failures of vehicles to yield to cyclists in the lane. Check out Beacon and Washington Street at morning rush hour some time.
Now let's look at your "example" which is irrelevant to the actual laws, but I'll humor you: when you change lanes to make that turn in your own example, you DO NOT GET TO JUST VEER OVER AND CHANGE LANES TO MAKE THAT TURN! You DO NOT have the right of way. You MUST YIELD TO TRAFFIC IN THAT LANE - i.e. to the vehicles that are already there or oncoming.
Even in Massachusetts. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to cross the cellular addled minds of most heavy equipment operators, who veer over regardless of whether or not they actually have the right to do so.
More Examples of limits to privileges of drivers: YOU DO NOT GET TO DRIVE A FULL BLOCK DOWN THE BIKE LANE to make your turn (see above). Nor do you get to pull slightly ahead of the stop line on a red light and "start" your right turn while blocking 10 cyclists waiting behind the stop line who had the right of way just because you are too important and you decided to play car privilege games. You do not have the right to honk at a cyclist who is waiting in the lane for the light just because you merged into the lane behind and want to take a right (Cambridge Cops like to pick these off - especially when they are right wing bumpersticker covered NH plate pickup trucks and there is a no-turn on red in a construction zone).
ALL CAPS because you clearly missed some stuff in my above post, and I thought you might need some help with comprehension.
Your points are all very correct.
Unfortunately, yielding is not just a problem with bike lanes, but increasingly with regular travel lanes as well. As a friend of mine (who has long since left Massachusetts) once stated: "90% of the drivers on the road consider themselves to have well above average skills behind the wheel. At least 75% of those people are just plain wrong."
As for the law about drivers not being allowed to occupy the bike lane (yes, "merge" is not the proper term here) before right-turning at an intersection, I feel that it may actually contribute to the "J-hooking" problem.
Why? If you let drivers access the bike lane in preparation for a right turn (within reason of course and provided they look and yield), that gives the approaching bicyclist an additional clue that the driver might be making a right turn. In addition, when drivers make turns, they are most concerned about completing the turn and may be less likely to look and yield when making the actual maneuver at the intersection than if they are merging into the right lane in preparing for the right turn.
Not to mention the fact that this is precisely the behavior most drivers employ when a roadway has a narrow shoulder not designated as a bike lane (remember the term "tight right" from driving school). Having two sets of rules for a similar pavement marking situation (wide car lane with narrow area to the right) makes no sense at all.
Of course, this also raises the issue about whether bike lanes are actually a safe design, but that's another matter altogether.
I've got to say, that
I've got to say, that article and the photos look andsound like they were from the Onion.
Who's that with a camera?
I suspect that the outcome of the encounter was highly influenced by the presence of a reporter taking photographs.
As for the issue of a car moving over into a bike lane when making a right turn, at MOST intersections where a bike lane has been marked, the solid white line becomes a dashed line near the corner, thus indicating it is legal to cross in preparation of making a right turn. It's up to the drivers and bicyclist to cooperate so it's safe. If I've indicating my car's right turn and shift into the bike lane, and a bike comes up from behind, the rider shouldn't "move up" to the corner.
Bzzt.
If you "shift" into the bike lane, you're in the wrong place according to the law. I don't care if you're signaling a right turn or the coming Armageddon. If you don't look back down the bike lane before making your right turn and you end up cutting off a bicyclist in the bike lane, you're in the wrong again according to the law. I don't care if you have to sit in the right lane with your blinker on until the entire Tour de France pedals by.
Does that mean that bikes have more priority than cars, especially when bike lanes are concerned? Yes, I guess it does. Tough. If you want your priority to the road back, get a bike.
Question
This morning i was on the give way and was waiting to turn right into a main road, a car from my right gave me the way and i pulled in and waited to get way from the cars coming from the left, while i was stationary, suddenly a bicyle came from my right hand side and hit to my front trye,, the collison wasn't very hard but I am wondering whose fault was it??
Looking forward for yor advice.
Thanks