I read that they are laying off a couple [of] hundred turnpike workers to do this.
And then I was really happy. Especially about the ones who coiiiincidentally have the same last names as people in the legislature.
We paid off the road in 1983. What those hacks pulled was like your mortgage company calling you up after 29½ years and telling you, Yeaaaah... ya know what, we really needed to upgrade the computer system so you know what, you're going to have to keep mailing in those checks. M'kay?
How do they intend to pay back all the bonds they have out? The Authority's rating is going to hit rock bottom. The Commonwealth's rating will probably take a hit, too.
Who's going to maintain the road? Mass Highway? How much is that going to cost and how will that be paid for?
MassPike has been portrayed as a haven for hacks lately, but I defy anyone who's driven on MassHighway and MassPike roads to say MassHighway does a better job or has better engineering and maintenance people.
This is a dumb stunt by a group that doesn't give a damn about Massachusetts or the state government's financial health.
It's the same dumb stunt that earned Christy Mihos a pink slip (albeit one he successfully fought in court. Amazing to think, but true: Jane Swift was the responsible one in that situation.)
If the state wants to get rid of tolls, fine, as long as there's an honest and realistic plan to replace the income and continue competently managing the infrastructure.
This Romney-appointed crew obviously intends to leave out the second half of that sentence and dump the resulting mess in the laps of the next administration.
It's their big F-U to the citizens of Massachusetts for having the gall to kick their party out of office.
as I understand it, the tolls could not be removed because the legislature found ways to keep them in place. the most recent bonds that were to be paid off by turnpike tolls were the latest in a series of maneuvers by the legislature to keep the turnpike authority and its tolls in place.
the turnpike authority has become a massive bureaucracy that perpetuates itself with the help of the legislature. it's a haven for patronage with unusually high salaries and compensation unmatched elsewhere in private industry. the newspapers continue to publish reports of rampant theft and overbilling by turnpike authority that goes uninvestigated and unpunished and even unchallenged by the turnpike authority.
The Turnpike Authority does not have unusually high salaries, with the possible exception of the toll booth workers. The executive, admin, and engineering staff are not overpaid at all. Unless you compare to MassHighway, where they're grossly underpaid.
The frequent news reports lately have been in no small part because the Romney administration chose to make the Pike its enemy, and focused everyone's attention on it.
Now, don't take my word for it, but consider the possibility that the Turnpike (leaving out the Central Artery Project), is actually one of the better-run agencies. The quality of service and maintenance are much higher than the MBTA or MassHighway. To the extent that's true, it's because their compensation actually attracted good people.
I confess, I know several of those people. They're all very frustrated that these political shenanigans are preventing them from getting their jobs done. And so the public sector will lose yet more good people to industry, because they don't enjoy being used as political pawns.
And finally, the most recent bonds that were to be paid off by Turnpike tolls were not just some scam to maintain the tolls. They came about because the federal government capped its contribution to the Big Dig, and the state had to find the money somewhere. Maybe they should have raised taxes instead, or find some other way, but it was a very real problem and this was the solution they chose.
i've heard turnpike employees get above average sick leave, above average vacation, full medical at only nominal cost to the employees, and medical coverage after retirement which is not normal for private industry.
from what i've heard and read, you are correct that the commonwealth needed money and chose to use the turnpike tolls to pay for costs such as the central artery, but the turnpike authority and its tolls were supposed to end 20+ years ago when the road was paid for. why ignore a legal requirement to end the turnpike authority? why not get the money needed in a legal way that's more equitable?
pensions. i forgot pensions. i've heard turnpike employees get pensions which most private sector employees do not get. most people have to save up an enormous amount of money to equal the pension that government workers like the turnpike employees get.
I know non-union Turnpike employees get 2 weeks vacation. I'm pretty sure they pay 20% of their health insurance. I don't know off hand how much sick time, but I know there used to be an incentive program for not using it (which has since cancelled). Every state employee is enrolled in a pension program; that's not unusual in any way. If you think pension programs in general are bad, that's another argument for another time. The union people might have things different; I don't know.
As far as the tolls go, I don't disagree that there were more equitable, progressive, and actual-user-targeted ways of raising the money. My point's just that since the state made its bed this way, we now have to lie in it.
pensions are great when you get them, but most people working now do not get them, and they have to work long and hard and sacrifice to save enough for retirement. for the turnpike to give hefty pensions while taxpayers pay the bill is offensive. government service used to be for the public good with minimal personal reward, but it's become a sinecure, a lucrative job with minimal effort at the public's expense.
the public does not have to live with the wrong decisions and mistakes of the legislature. the abolition of the turnpike and its tolls is a step in righting a wrong.
"government service used to be for the public good with minimal personal reward"
I couldn't disagree more. If you want good, competent people doing good, competent work, you have to compensate them fairly.
You apparently feel that pensions are bad no matter what. But when people took these jobs, pensions were part of the compensation they were offered. It's part of the deal they took. If the state unilaterally cuts all these benefits, you can bet that the good employees are going to find other employment. Then you really will have exclusively lazy, incompetent people.
The public does indeed have to live with some mistakes of the legislature. When the legislature borrows money, the public is responsible for paying it back. So if we want to get rid of tolls, I'm all for it...as long as we're honest about what we're going to do to replace that revenue.
penisons are going away throughout private industry and are being replaced with individual savings plans. increasingly, government jobs are the only ones with pensions, which were generous even private industry had penisons. government pensions are now obscene. how long that will last will depend on how long it takes for the public to become outraged. Matt Amorello and many of his cronies left with pension, sick pay, and other severance pay that generated a lot of outrage.
as for getting rid of the tolls, that's what I said before: the turnpike and tolls were supposed to end 20+ years ago, and the legislature should have found a legal and more equitable source of revenue. dissolving the turnpike and getting rid of the tolls would right a wrong.
the turnpike is just a road. it's not rocket science, and it does not need an overgrown bureaucracy to manage it, especially when the turnpike is riddled with patronage, theft, fraud, and larceny that continues year after year. and all at the taxpayer's expense.
there are other jobs out there. the end of the turnpike and its tolls won't be the end of the world for the people at the turnpike.
1) Pensions are going out of style, so it's wrong for an employee to want one or an employer to offer them.
2) Since the tolls were supposed to be eliminated years ago, that means we can just cancel them now without worrying about what the effects will be.
3) Highway maintenance is easy, so it's OK for highway agencies to be staffed by dumb people, as long as the jobs aren't well-paying enough to be desirable.
So I trust that we'll now start taxing corporations to pay their fair share to make up for the bite this will take out of state revenues. Right? Right? Anybody? Bueller?
i am always for less taxes, fees, tolls whatever. this has been promised for years. there is too much redundancy in govt, and it is often too top heavy with "managers" making 100k+ a year. i get the feeling that with some of you people, you would like us to live in a commune and share our "wealth" for the greater good of the state. if you want the state to have more money, feel free to make a donation or pay the higher rate.
You think the state is too top-heavy? Think there are too many managers making 100K? So do I. But y'know what? If they're cut, I'll be shocked. That's how a patronage system works--it protects its own. And in the meantime, those who get hurt will be the little people.
And you think that's about living in a commune? Come on, pal. Do you know what's been cut most in recent years? Local aid. The money that pays for fire, police, and schools. Think that paying for those is "like living in a commune"? Want those to be funded by individuals making donations?
It's called living in a society, where we all have to pay for the basics. If you think that's beneeath you, then you shouldn't be living in a democracy.
we're in the 18th year of an "emergency" temporary increase in the tax rate that the voters chose to put back to 5% several years ago, we aren't living in a democracy. I won't even bother to mention the homosexual marriage issue and seat belt laws.
Comments
I was happy about this until...
I read that they are laying off a couple hundred turnpike workers to do this.
sweet
now can the rest of them and get rid of the tolls altogether
I was happy about this until...
I read that they are laying off a couple [of] hundred turnpike workers to do this.
And then I was really happy. Especially about the ones who coiiiincidentally have the same last names as people in the legislature.
We paid off the road in 1983. What those hacks pulled was like your mortgage company calling you up after 29½ years and telling you, Yeaaaah... ya know what, we really needed to upgrade the computer system so you know what, you're going to have to keep mailing in those checks. M'kay?
Yes, this really is "utterly irresponsible"
Here are some questions:
How do they intend to pay back all the bonds they have out? The Authority's rating is going to hit rock bottom. The Commonwealth's rating will probably take a hit, too.
Who's going to maintain the road? Mass Highway? How much is that going to cost and how will that be paid for?
MassPike has been portrayed as a haven for hacks lately, but I defy anyone who's driven on MassHighway and MassPike roads to say MassHighway does a better job or has better engineering and maintenance people.
This is a dumb stunt by a group that doesn't give a damn about Massachusetts or the state government's financial health.
More thoughts...or ranting
It's the same dumb stunt that earned Christy Mihos a pink slip (albeit one he successfully fought in court. Amazing to think, but true: Jane Swift was the responsible one in that situation.)
If the state wants to get rid of tolls, fine, as long as there's an honest and realistic plan to replace the income and continue competently managing the infrastructure.
This Romney-appointed crew obviously intends to leave out the second half of that sentence and dump the resulting mess in the laps of the next administration.
It's their big F-U to the citizens of Massachusetts for having the gall to kick their party out of office.
Yeah,
What a dumb stunt, taking down the tolls only 23 years late.
Right!
They should have taken the tolls down BEFORE financing billions of dollars secured by that revenue.
as I understand it, the
as I understand it, the tolls could not be removed because the legislature found ways to keep them in place. the most recent bonds that were to be paid off by turnpike tolls were the latest in a series of maneuvers by the legislature to keep the turnpike authority and its tolls in place.
the turnpike authority has become a massive bureaucracy that perpetuates itself with the help of the legislature. it's a haven for patronage with unusually high salaries and compensation unmatched elsewhere in private industry. the newspapers continue to publish reports of rampant theft and overbilling by turnpike authority that goes uninvestigated and unpunished and even unchallenged by the turnpike authority.
this is government at its worst.
I disagree with your understanding
I think you're thinking of MassPort.
The Turnpike Authority does not have unusually high salaries, with the possible exception of the toll booth workers. The executive, admin, and engineering staff are not overpaid at all. Unless you compare to MassHighway, where they're grossly underpaid.
The frequent news reports lately have been in no small part because the Romney administration chose to make the Pike its enemy, and focused everyone's attention on it.
Now, don't take my word for it, but consider the possibility that the Turnpike (leaving out the Central Artery Project), is actually one of the better-run agencies. The quality of service and maintenance are much higher than the MBTA or MassHighway. To the extent that's true, it's because their compensation actually attracted good people.
I confess, I know several of those people. They're all very frustrated that these political shenanigans are preventing them from getting their jobs done. And so the public sector will lose yet more good people to industry, because they don't enjoy being used as political pawns.
And finally, the most recent bonds that were to be paid off by Turnpike tolls were not just some scam to maintain the tolls. They came about because the federal government capped its contribution to the Big Dig, and the state had to find the money somewhere. Maybe they should have raised taxes instead, or find some other way, but it was a very real problem and this was the solution they chose.
i've heard turnpike
i've heard turnpike employees get above average sick leave, above average vacation, full medical at only nominal cost to the employees, and medical coverage after retirement which is not normal for private industry.
from what i've heard and read, you are correct that the commonwealth needed money and chose to use the turnpike tolls to pay for costs such as the central artery, but the turnpike authority and its tolls were supposed to end 20+ years ago when the road was paid for. why ignore a legal requirement to end the turnpike authority? why not get the money needed in a legal way that's more equitable?
pensions. i forgot
pensions. i forgot pensions. i've heard turnpike employees get pensions which most private sector employees do not get. most people have to save up an enormous amount of money to equal the pension that government workers like the turnpike employees get.
Turnpike Benefits
I know non-union Turnpike employees get 2 weeks vacation. I'm pretty sure they pay 20% of their health insurance. I don't know off hand how much sick time, but I know there used to be an incentive program for not using it (which has since cancelled). Every state employee is enrolled in a pension program; that's not unusual in any way. If you think pension programs in general are bad, that's another argument for another time. The union people might have things different; I don't know.
As far as the tolls go, I don't disagree that there were more equitable, progressive, and actual-user-targeted ways of raising the money. My point's just that since the state made its bed this way, we now have to lie in it.
pensions are great when you
pensions are great when you get them, but most people working now do not get them, and they have to work long and hard and sacrifice to save enough for retirement. for the turnpike to give hefty pensions while taxpayers pay the bill is offensive. government service used to be for the public good with minimal personal reward, but it's become a sinecure, a lucrative job with minimal effort at the public's expense.
the public does not have to live with the wrong decisions and mistakes of the legislature. the abolition of the turnpike and its tolls is a step in righting a wrong.
"government service used to
"government service used to be for the public good with minimal personal reward"
I couldn't disagree more. If you want good, competent people doing good, competent work, you have to compensate them fairly.
You apparently feel that pensions are bad no matter what. But when people took these jobs, pensions were part of the compensation they were offered. It's part of the deal they took. If the state unilaterally cuts all these benefits, you can bet that the good employees are going to find other employment. Then you really will have exclusively lazy, incompetent people.
The public does indeed have to live with some mistakes of the legislature. When the legislature borrows money, the public is responsible for paying it back. So if we want to get rid of tolls, I'm all for it...as long as we're honest about what we're going to do to replace that revenue.
penisons are going away
penisons are going away throughout private industry and are being replaced with individual savings plans. increasingly, government jobs are the only ones with pensions, which were generous even private industry had penisons. government pensions are now obscene. how long that will last will depend on how long it takes for the public to become outraged. Matt Amorello and many of his cronies left with pension, sick pay, and other severance pay that generated a lot of outrage.
as for getting rid of the tolls, that's what I said before: the turnpike and tolls were supposed to end 20+ years ago, and the legislature should have found a legal and more equitable source of revenue. dissolving the turnpike and getting rid of the tolls would right a wrong.
the turnpike is just a road. it's not rocket science, and it does not need an overgrown bureaucracy to manage it, especially when the turnpike is riddled with patronage, theft, fraud, and larceny that continues year after year. and all at the taxpayer's expense.
there are other jobs out there. the end of the turnpike and its tolls won't be the end of the world for the people at the turnpike.
equity
but why should turnpike tolls go away when MBTA fares are going up?
Let me make sure I've got your points right...
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.
1) Pensions are going out of style, so it's wrong for an employee to want one or an employer to offer them.
2) Since the tolls were supposed to be eliminated years ago, that means we can just cancel them now without worrying about what the effects will be.
3) Highway maintenance is easy, so it's OK for highway agencies to be staffed by dumb people, as long as the jobs aren't well-paying enough to be desirable.
A move in the wrong direction
Right now, we need more money, not less, to pay for transportation projects (both road and rail).
Oy
So I trust that we'll now start taxing corporations to pay their fair share to make up for the bite this will take out of state revenues. Right? Right? Anybody? Bueller?
i am always for less taxes,
i am always for less taxes, fees, tolls whatever. this has been promised for years. there is too much redundancy in govt, and it is often too top heavy with "managers" making 100k+ a year. i get the feeling that with some of you people, you would like us to live in a commune and share our "wealth" for the greater good of the state. if you want the state to have more money, feel free to make a donation or pay the higher rate.
You think the state is too
You think the state is too top-heavy? Think there are too many managers making 100K? So do I. But y'know what? If they're cut, I'll be shocked. That's how a patronage system works--it protects its own. And in the meantime, those who get hurt will be the little people.
And you think that's about living in a commune? Come on, pal. Do you know what's been cut most in recent years? Local aid. The money that pays for fire, police, and schools. Think that paying for those is "like living in a commune"? Want those to be funded by individuals making donations?
It's called living in a society, where we all have to pay for the basics. If you think that's beneeath you, then you shouldn't be living in a democracy.
Seeing as how
we're in the 18th year of an "emergency" temporary increase in the tax rate that the voters chose to put back to 5% several years ago, we aren't living in a democracy. I won't even bother to mention the homosexual marriage issue and seat belt laws.