No, all of Boston does not head to Southie for the parade
In which eeka learns to hate the Metro all over again.
Jim Sullivan, meanwhile, considers how the Irish may be the last group one can stereotype without fear:
... Nobody is holding rallies to change the name of the Notre Dame athletic teams. The Fighting Irish. Try calling some college team The Hotheaded Hispanics and see how far you get. Throw an Irish cop with a larcenous streak into a movie or a TV show and nobody blinks. Hell, make him a drunk who beats his wife and has 12 unkempt bratty children. You might as well go all the way. It's not like anybody is going to complain, least of all the Irish themselves. The Irish are just about the only group that generally ignores most of the stereotypes people throw around about them. For that matter, many of us seem to take pride in our rotten image. ...
Comments
he makes a point, but i dont
he makes a point, but i dont really think anyone, including myself, find the fighing irish offensive. what is offensive, for instance, is the term "paddy wagon" being used liberally, including many times on this site. can you imagine the immediate condemnation if one used the term "negro wagon", or "guiney wagon"? there is no question that a double standard exists. reverse racism is an accepted and often used practice.
Don't Get Me Wrong
I don't find the term "Fighting Irish" especially offensive, either. I just used it as probably the most readily obvious example.
I had never assumed that
I had never assumed that "Paddy Wagon" was a racist term...Wikipedia doesn't think so either, as the name is most commonly thought to refer to the the prevalence of Irish Policemen, not the prevalence of Irish criminals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_wagon
In addition, I might add that "paddy" is pretty commonly used as an affectionate nickname, such as "St. Paddy's Day." I'm not Irish, so it's not like my opinion counts, but I thought I'd post anyway :)
wikipedia may actually be
wikipedia may actually be wrong. historically, i honestly do not think it was ever intended to be a term that referred to the police, but to the individuals who were getting "wagonned."
and as a woman who's father is a first born in his family of 9 kids in the USA from an irish family from cork, i honestly think that there isn't anything offensive about making fun of the irish. i do think that a lot of irish politicians, writers, poets have all agreed over history that if you can't be made fun of and take it in good stride, you're not that comfortable with who you are.
Happy St. Patrick's Day to all. Irish or not.
Being made fun of and taking it in good stride?
Umm--I have to disagree with you somewhat here, amusings. It depends on the group(s) that're being made fun of. For instance, if someone's a member of a still-marginalized group here in our society, of which there are quite afew, then being made fun of is much, much harder to take, because members of marginalized groups are much more sensitive than people who're members of groups that're a majority group, or who're more assimiliated.
you may have not assumed
you may have not assumed "paddy wagon" is not a racist term because people do not think that anything they say in reference to white people, especially irish people, can be considered racist. i grew up in boston, in a irish neighborhood in an irish family, and have always been taught that paddy wagon is a derogatory term. once again, if it had any other racial prefix other than "paddy", the outrage would be deafening.
Just A Clarification Of Sorts
I intended my piece to be humorous - if somewhat darkly so - so the last thing I want to do is throw fuel on the possibly-growing fire here. However, just to clarify:
"Paddy" is certainly used sometimes in a derogatory way. While it is a legitimate nickname for "Patrick", if someone uses it to refer to an Irishman they don't know personally, it may be considered almost as offensive as "mick" or "harp".
In general, I agree with AMUSINGS above, though. I think a lot of folks would do well to follow the Irish lead of not taking themselves too seriously - including some of the Irish :-)
A New Mel Gibson Epic?
"The Saint Patrick Story", a moving epic about the life of the man who brought Ireland into Christendom.
Starring Samuel L. Jackson as St.Patrick, of course ... :-)
SNAKES ON AN ISLAND!
SNAKES ON AN ISLAND!
Excellent Suldog. I raise my
Excellent Suldog. I raise my glass o'guinness to you as I'm rocking out "Drunken Lullabies" by Flogging Molly.
and that is NO JOKE tonight.
:-)
monty python's Michael Palin once said that he thought if you couldn't make fun of yourself, in all respects, you had no right making fun of anyone else. That's why he played a lot of stutterers on MPFC, because he was a horrible stutter as a child.
i'm fat, and make fun of my fatass all day.
cheers!
Look - I'm not Irish. I
Look - I'm not Irish. I grew up in the midwest surrounded by Finns and Swedes. Dumb as it sounds, I didn't know any Irish people. And as such, NO, I wouldn't have assumed that "paddy" was racist - especially considering how prevalent ads for "St. Paddy's Day" and whatnot are. I didn't consider "paddy wagon" to be a derogatory term because I had NO idea that it was named after the Irish in any way. Especially since confusion over the term seems to be pretty rampant, I don't think that your tone was necessary. Consider me most thoroughly chastised. Sheesh.
I think I can safely say...
99% of the people alive in America today have no idea that paddy wagon is a derogatory term. You saying you were raised that it was isn't going to change that. If my family taught me a word was racist, it would not necessarily make it so to the general population. ("Irish" isn't a race, is it?)
Can I ask how old you are? I'm wondering if it's a generational thing. (Although I'm 42, have some Irish blood, and I've never ever heard this).
I have to say, all things being equal, being Irish is certainly not considered dirty or bad in 2007, especially with everyone doing the whole St. Patrick's Day celebrating. I'm pretty sure most people don't even care if you're Irish or not, unless you are just off the boat with a cute little accent.
There are plenty of things to be outraged over, but I don't know that paddy wagon is the one I'd tackle first.
===========================
From the brains behind http://www.bigdumptruck.com
The question of what is and
The question of what is and is not a race is very interesting and seems to have varied greatly over the years; I'm fairly sure that at one point, "Irish" was considered a race, not just a nationality. Googling "Irish race" comes up with some interesting information.
Another discussion of the term "paddy wagon" can be found here: http://www.word-detective.com/back-s.html
I think you're right.
There is a book talking about this very issue called "How The Irish Became White." I haven't read the book, but I remember hearing about it a while back and it sounded interesting.
Here is a little blurb from the book and a link with a description if anyone is interested.
"In the first half of the 19th century, some three million Irish emigrated to America, trading a ruling elite of Anglo-Irish Anglicans for one of WASPs. The Irish immigrants were (self-evidently) not Anglo-Saxon; most were not Protestant; and, as far as many of the nativists were concerned, they weren't white, either."
amazon.com/Irish-Became-White...1
This reminds me of the time ...
All this talk about the Irish and drinking reminds me of the time I was at a bar in Back Bay talking with this guy from Wales. We started arguing about whether or not Ireland was a part of Great Britain. I told him I was sure it was. He kept saying I was wrong (he was right), but that I was a great guy. We drank for a couple hours.
Long story short, I run to the bathroom, come back to find out he had snuck out, and that he totally welshed on paying our bill, leaving me with a $200 bar tab!