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Boil order could be days, rather than weeks, unless testing tomorrow shows "collateral damage"
By adamg on Sun, 05/02/2010 - 10:28am
NECN interviews MWRA head Fred Laskey this morning. He says welding a new metal sheath to replace the one that blew out should be done by tonight; pressure testing will be done tomorrow.
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Comments
MWRA Looking Pretty Good So Far
Ok, I'll say it. I think that the MWRA is actually doing something bordering on a masterful job of handling this event thus far. I appreciate Laskey's candor, and I have been impressed with his no-nonsense approach and his ability to deal politely but firmly with stupid questions from the idiot msm.
I also think MWRA's communication has been good. Have a look at their website - short declarative sentences. No politics and no crap. This is one of the unsung virtues of the the independent authority - when you have your own budget and your not constantly running for election, you can (if the individual leaders have the personal fortitude) push all the crap to the side and get the job done. If a state agency had been overseeing this, we would really, really be screwed.
If by 'handling this event'
If by 'handling this event' you mean what they did after the catastrophic failure of their facility, then yeah, I guess they're handling the event well.
Shit Happens
Let's wait for the review before we start placing blame. It could be a 1:1000000 defect, or it could have been a contractor using the wrong gauge bolts to save time and money.
What we can say is that their plan for just such an event has been great so far, both logistically and when put into effect.
one of the contractors for
one of the contractors for this project was Modern Continental, the wonderful company that may have been responsible for the big dig ceiling collapse. It wouldn't surprise me to find them at fault again.
Question: The anti-gov
Question:
The anti-gov anti-tax crowd has been pressuring for lowest bid contracts for years now. Could this be result? Poor craftsmanship and materials?
I agree we need to make sure government contracted work is done efficiently, but maybe the pendulum has swung too far? How would you resolve that?
Another relative of Romney, Celucci, and their people
We have been living under the pall of the former governors of Massachusetts who have made sure their friend and relatives had long and enduring jobs here. They have made sure the Modern Continentals have had contracts.
Now we have to put up with the failure of their friend's work. The MWRA has been a nest of people that hae been given their jobs by the people in the subject line. Yet these people want to want to throw the blame on the current administration. Look at the time line. We have our problems now because of the prior administrations, not the current one.
We need to clean out this nest of incompetents in the MWRA and many other such agencies. Get rid of the politicos and make these organizations run without the corruption that we are now experiencing.
Wouldn't " handling this
Wouldn't " handling this event" have to happen " after " said event?
right.
Yes. Hence, my "so far" and "thus far".
collateral damage?
More like cholera damage.
Um, no
The cholera/yucky stuff issue is why we're boiling water now. The "collateral" damage is if, as they work on pipe, they discover additional cracks or holes or whatever.
What's got me boiling
Okay, it's after midnight. Day 3 in captivity. We've had a "Boil Water" order in place for over 36 hours. The leak was stopped over 20 hours ago. A "masterful" job. Or so someone has said. So now how about some water *testing*? Is there anything in the water to really be worried about? Could people from the MWRA take a moment out from issuing the same report over and over and over again (on the Web site) and TEST THE WATER? Is there an excess of coliform bacteria present? Or not? I see the last update on the Web is Sunday 4PM. Which says the same thing they've been saying since 8PM Saturday. What, did everyone go HOME? (I can almost hear the reply: "Hey, whaddaya want? It's SUNDAY fer cripes sake!") Yes, I'm sure these MWRA people have lives, but this is a real emergency that has incited some measure of panic among the hair-trigger public. MWRA, test the water already and tell us if there is a problem with it. PLEASE!
Test when?
Test now and you're only getting the water that's flowing now from the reservoirs. As the level lowers, you could stir up something that hadn't been free floating at the time or had been in a higher concentration near the top (water draws from the bottom). If you go out and say "boil order" then a day later you say "it's all good" and then you test again 12 hours later and find something problematic..well, you're going to totally confuse the public as to if they're still under a "boil order" or not... They're probably only hitting some people for the first time today as we speak. People who were out all weekend or didn't pick up the news because it was the weekend. You have a message, "boil your water", and you stick to it until you're certain everything is back to normal.
Also, I can assure you that the MWRA wasn't taking the Sabbath off just because it was the weekend. Those guys aren't going to relax until everyone knows the water's flowing from the treatment plant again and the cameras have all gone home. The MWRA has given no sign that they're being lax about this problem at all.
This is only a test.
I'm not suggesting they lift the boil ban yet. Are you suggesting there's something wrong with actually checking to see if there IS a health danger? Or, more likely -- is the testing being done but not shared with the public for fear we might not follow guidelines? Maybe the MWRA isn't taking Sunday off, but they're very likely going home early. There have been no updates on the MWRA home page since 4:01PM Saturday. They left or they're lazy. Take your pick.
Not a blog
It's not a blog. They don't have to tell you their inner most secrets 16 times a day, man.
Besides, what page are you reading? Because this one ( http://www.mwra.state.ma.us/updates/leak.html ) has updates from 8:47 PM Saturday, 2:30 AM Sunday, 8:00 AM Sunday, 12:00 PM Sunday, and 4:30 AM Monday. That's 5 times since you claim they kicked their feet up and relaxed. Included in those updates is also great lines such as:
and
So, either you're stupid or a douchebag. Take your pick.
Oh, it's not a blog? Really?
Oh, it's not a blog? Really? With updates are regularly being issued? What would you call it? Just like you're not just an MWRA apologist. Obviously, you need to sling insults at those who question authority. My point was the water may be being tested, but the results are not shared. Did you understand that issue? Or were you too busy insulting people with different opinions than yours? Stupid OR douchebag? You've done a fine job proving someone can be both.
Those who question authority?
"Those who question authority"? Oh, please. Get over yourself.
Updates have been posted regularly. The water is being tested. The results are not yet final, and there are legitimate reasons for not releasing those results until an all-clear can be issued definitively. Works for me. I've been the victim of bad tap water once, and I'd prefer not to have that happen again if at all possible.
That would be me.
I was the person so originally used the word masterful. With respect to the testing comments, we have a system here that comprises thousands of miles of pipe. I am not an engineer, but I think that its reasonable to presume that it might take a little while, even days, for the treated water now being reintroduced into the system to work its way all the way through those thousands of miles of pipes and completely displace the non-treated reserve water that has been occupying the pipes for the last few days. It seems to me that is a good reason to test over a period of a couple of days, in many different locations downstream from the City Tunnel, which is, presumably, how long it would take to "flush" the system from Weston to the many points at which it transitions from supply to waste water.
With respect to Kaz being an "MWRA apoligist" or someone who "sling[s] insults at those who question authority", while I don't know him/her personally, his/her regular postings on this site very much contradict that assertion.
Ergo ...
It took a couple of days for my tap water to start smelling like pond water and tasting like boiled ass. It will take a couple of days to clear that out of the system.
I think Mr. "Question Authority" should take his teabag and boil some more water ... It makes sense to hold authority accountable, sure, which is why they are proceeding in a fairly careful fashion. But hurling insults because your extra special water service isn't back on yet and they should just hurry up because you are inconvenienced? Oh please. The MWRA folk have been working round the clock, and most live in these same communities that are boiling water.
Don't dare to differ on this board!
This is absurd. I never demanded any one "hurry up," nor did I hurl insults -- although I was on the receiving end of several. And by the way, my tap water smells just fine, which is why I was looking for a clue to whether there was or is any legitimate reason why we can't drink our water. I've yet to hear of a single instance of an anything beyond suspicion of harmful contamination, which I had hoped to have confirmed one way or the other by a test. How dare I think to go against the tide of such a bunch of bullies!!!
Need any water?
You know, while you're up there nailing yourself to a cross.
Help, help, you're being repressed! Witness the violence inherent in the forum!
You demanded they work faster at getting you test results. You claimed the MWRA were either negligent (by leaving their posts) or lazy to not get you new updates (even though they were giving you new updates...through the entire night no less). You used words like "captivity" to act the victim on one hand while demanding a response from your captors as if you were their warden and knew best how to diagnose the health risks of stagnant pond water being used to fuel our tap water.
It was already explained to you that they can't say "we're not sure, boil your water", then a few hours later say "oh the water's fine, we tested it", and THEN find out 12 hours later that the situation changed again. It was correct of them to do what they did: "We're not treating the water, so boil it first." When they're treating 100% of the water supply again and they're sure that nothing lingered in the system, then they'll rescind the Boil Order. I told you all of that in my first post which was very civil. You chose to ignore it and slide the chip on your shoulder that you walked in the door with just a little further out on its edge. I knocked it off because you were just basing your incriminations on false pretenses.
It's that simple. The water is mostly treated now. They'll let you know the results of the tests when they have them (likely up to 24 hours from time of receiving the samples, because they're probably doing agar growth tests to see if anything grows from the samples and it'll take that long to see the bacterial colonies on the plates). If you want to risk it sooner than that, knock yourself out. We all take risks in life.
"I am not an engineer, but I
"I am not an engineer, but I think that its reasonable to presume that it might take a little while, even days, for the treated water now being reintroduced into the system to work its way all the way through those thousands of miles of pipes and completely displace the non-treated reserve water that has been occupying the pipes for the last few days."
No, id say a few hours at most.
In 2006, I was in southern Brazil which had a drought. The city would shut off the water for 26 hours once a week to encourage preservation. It took about 6 hours from when they turned the water back on again for the water to reach our home.
Fine job
Indeed, a fine job. Good work, Kaz.
Yes, fine job. "So, either
Yes, fine job.
"So, either you're stupid or a douchebag. Take your pick."
Very civilized. How intelligent. You should all be proud of your hero.
Don't be so modest
He couldn't have done it without you.
This isn't CSI: Boston
The test results don't come back before the next commercial break.
According to NECN, it's going to be this afternoon at the earliest before they get back the results from the first round of tests, and there has to be at least one more round after those come back clear.
Thanks Stewart, for the
Thanks Stewart, for the direct info. Your (NECN's) timetable is the first I've heard reported. I realize it isn't a TV show, but I would have expected MWRA to have water testing facilities, and in an emergency, to be able to test rather quickly. I stand corrected. Again, thanks.
Why MWRA doesn't test its own water
Aside from the contracting out = cheaper issue, there is a good faith issue as well. They send samples to an independent certified laboratory, in part, to avoid the sorts of recordkeeping and testing fiascos that plagued the MDC's reign as water ... er ... raw sewage providers.
It isn't unusual for agencies to be required to outsource the testing to keep everyone honest. There are also economies of scale - certification and high volume equipment cost money.
Emergency or not
Bacterial growth tests take time. Because...well, they have to wait and see whether or not bacteria grow in the samples! It's not something you can do "rather quickly," any more than you can add yeast to wine and automatically turn it into champagne.
Even Deval Patrick didn't
Even Deval Patrick didn't take Sunday off. He & the MWRA held a press conference yesterday morning at the Weston site. It interrupted "Meet the Press."