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Three dead after violence erupts at Jamaica Plain sub shop

UPDATE, 3:30 PM: Boston Police report a third man, 28, has died. The Jamaica Plain Gazette reports the violence started with the stabbing.

MORNING UPDATE: Boston Police report two victims died. One died from multiple stab wounds; the other from being shot several times. A third victim was also shot but is in stable condition. The fourth victim, an innocent bystander jogging across the street, was treated and released at Faulkner Hospital.

Police say the intended victims were all Hispanics in their 20s; they declined to further identify them - or to say whether the alleged shooter was one of the dead men.

AlertNewEngland reports several people were shot inside the Same Old Place, 662 Centre St. (across from JP Licks), around 7:30 p.m. and that the suspects ran down Seaverns Avenue. WBZ tweets four people were shot, two are in critical condition. Channel 25 reports one of the victims was an innocent bystander across the street.

Jamaica Plain Patch reports a fight broke out in the sub shop and one guy drew a gun and started shooting. The Globe reports no employees were injured. NECN says a suspect is in custody.

At 9 p.m., Andrew Heining tweeted:

Centre Street a maze of police tape, news vans as officials investigate tonight's quadruple shooting

Alex Jones posted photos from the aftermath.

Same Old Place in happier times - Attorney General Martha Coakley visiting during her Senate bid this past January:

Same Old Place

Photo used under this Creative Commons license.

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Comments

Usually when I read about a shooting, it's on some street or establishment that I've never gone to, but this one is in a popular sub shop that I often stop at when I'm in JP. Yikes.

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i and my gf go there every time we went to jp, usu. mspca...

very nice people there.. noww folks will be afraid to go out to

eat for dear of getting shot!!!

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calm down Nancy.

One random incident doesn't necessitate Armageddon.

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Thank you. I lived there most of my life & my family still lives right there (street where fox reporter is standing).

This has never happened in my 39 years so it is extremely unusual. Can happen anywhere though - remember we live in the city - not the burbs. Maybe this will make the hipters go away? lolol.

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Psycho + grudge + gun happens in the suburbs, too.

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.. is correct. To pull out a gun and start shooting in a place like that you must be nuts or just not give a fu*k about anything and everything.

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Honestly... can we drop this? No one is superior so I wish everyone would drop the labels. It's such bs.

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eh, hipsters are pretty weird. I think we should continue to deride them...

IMAGE(http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Hipster-Spider-Man.jpg)

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Urban paranoia ends up doing nobody any good. This could have happened at any restaurant or other public place in the city, and freaking out about it won't help.

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I always considered that section of Centre Street to be the "safe part". Used to go to Same Old Place for lunch several times per week. Scary to see this sort of violence spreading out of it's usual areas.

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Let's not forget Surendra Dangol's murder at the Tedeschi down the street.

At the same time, I'm not sure two incidents in a year qualifies that stretch of Centre Street as "unsafe" now.

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My husband and I have lived in JP for 5 years and we love Same Old Place. Fred, the owner, is a great man and everyone who works there is so nice, courteous, and caring of their JP customers. It is an absolute shame that this has happened and I hope it will not deter folks from shopping there. I will be there as soon as possible to show my support for the restaurant. I hope the neighborhood sticks together on this one and pushes back against this terrible crime.

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http://www.yelp.com/biz/same-old-place-jamaica-plain

Read on for tales of:
-"townie" attitudes
-discrimination against homosexuals
-making fun of/threatening a guy with a broken arm because he dared to pay with a credit card

I was there a month or two ago and there was an older lady working the counter who was a real piece of work. Why go there when waaaaay better food and attitudes are just two blocks away at Real Deal?

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To the guy citing Yelp for his impression of this establishment- you are an idiot (as are most people who allow Yelp to form their opinion for them). As a 20 year resident of JP, I remember when there *was* no Real Deal- and ask anyone Real Deal's service sucks, walk in an order a burger or panini, tell me you don't spend at LEAST 45 minutes waiting. Same Old Place is an iconic JP monument, if you even had to look it up on Yelp, chances are you've never been there, or don't even live in JP.

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and say "special w/ a pepsi." 1.25 please....

JP was always great - the hispters / yuppies did not make it great.

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The oxy-dropping, firestarting townies are the ones who made this place great. Never forget.

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I am lesbian, and I have been going to Same Old Place for years. I don't know what that yelp reviewer was talking about. The guys who work there are sweet. They maybe a little gruff, but they do not discriminate against gay people. Maybe they just didn't like her.

I am just glad that none of the employees were hurt. It was so upsetting to read about this last night.

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the pizza at same old kills real deal..... and seriously I don't understand the Yelp posts at all, I'm an obvious transplant to JP and have always been welcomed by the folks at Same Old Place. Granted I don't ask them to hold my hand while I'm there, but I've always counted it among the [many] places in the neighborhood with friendly staff

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I'll pitch in my 2 cents and say that I've been going to Same Old Place a few times a year since moving to this part of the city 20 years ago and have never seen the sort of extreme behaviour described by those few yelp reviewers. I'm inclined to believe that the accounts are either one-sided, vastly overstated, or just plain intentionally misleading (which is an unfortunately growing issue at yelp). It's very hard to imagine an expressly homophobic business surviving in JP after about 1985 or so.

Similarly, I'm not sure what the anonymous commentor above meant by "a piece of work" but the folks at SOP are hard working and plain-spoken - and that's all right by me.

I'll be dropping in and grabbing a slice real soon to show a little neighborhood solidarity.

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Wow, this is so scary. Whenever we order Pizza from them, I always go pick it up. Tonight, I was being lazy and ordered delivery. Had no idea why they were taking so long to deliver, and no one was picking up the phone there. I went over there to see what was happening and the street was blocked off and then I look on twitter to see what was going on and see this. I'm just totally shocked. My heart goes out to the folks at my favorite JP Pizza joint.

I can't believe I didn't go pick it up...definitely a fortunate fool tonight.

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This is going to outrage the yuppie community.

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I know what you're getting at and I can't say I disagree entirely, but shouldn't it outrage everyone?

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Really?

Like, the entire community isn't going to be rattled, freaked-out and outraged by this?

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When the same type of events happen just a couple miles away, the outrage is sometimes not felt by th entire community. When it happens in yuppie central, then the tweets and UH postings will start flying faster than the bullets.

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I think the yuppies should hold a peace march.

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this is not a time for that, for chrissakes.

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I haven't heard "yuppies" for a while.

I'm interested in learning the addresses of the three guys in the pizza joint.

From what the Commish said, this was gang violence over a slice of pizza. The gun-totting dude had a hair-trigger temper. I wonder if he was reasonably threatened or just paranoid. The Commish doesn't say if the other two were carrying.

Also checking in to see if I need to update the map.

IMAGE(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/nfsagan/BPD-Homicide-YR-ending-10-3.jpg)

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Look at that horrible, gang infested Southie that everyone always rags on.

Still, East Boston appears to be behaving itself this year.

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Surely there is a way to blame Dorchester for this heinous violence? Maybe one of the murdered lived there for 6 months? Or drove through once? Lots of commenting folks here seem agitated not that the 3 violent deaths happened, but that this happened in JP. We all know this sort of thing happens every day in other parts of the city - really? Every day? I'd even wager that some of the incidents on the 'murder map' actually happened in JP, but BPD's district boundaries show them instead in Roxbury. It is a fantasy that Boston's violent crime happens only in certain areas.

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Adam had a tracking map that went to street level.

It's pretty apparent that most of the violent crime is not only in certain police districts, but certain neighborhood boundaries. Especially shootings and murders.

Sure, there's one off violent crimes all over the city (yes, criminals can walk and drive), but there are patterns of density for most of the reoccurring violence. I'm finding it amusing you're suggesting otherwise.

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Think about its name for a minute.

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The Same Old Place was at one time a franchise store, I think an early Papa Ginos. At some point, in the 70s or 80s, the owners dropped the franchise and changed the name, but kept the old menu. So yeah, it has been there a long time.

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It's been the Same Old Place since I was a kid .... early 70's. Will have to ask older siblings if it was once a papa gino's....

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you might enjoy these pics if you've never seen them!
http://www.jphs.org/display/ShowPicture?moduleId=9...

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For "yuppies" why not just swap out "people of every income level, age, gender and color who don't want to worry about getting shot when they're at the post office or picking up a pizza or an ice cream cone?" The tone of your post is completely obnoxious.

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anon is determined to "man-up" to gun violence and does so by kicking the pussies who don't. pussies!

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the only silver lining I can think of is that because it disturbed the yuppie side, the police will be more likely to take action and improve the quality of living. Maybe they will come further down Columbus towards Seaver and help out us people of color even.

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though I live closer to Seaver than to Centre. The point is--it's a well-lit, crowded commercial strip where EVERYBODY goes and feels safe and these were guys who flipped out and started shooting, God only knows why. That's why it scares people more than your now-common targeted gang assasination on Boylston Street or Washington. Yes, Centre is the "nicer" end of JP but it seems just lucky that only one passerby was wounded--this is like the opposite of organized crime.

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Anyone know what the motive was?

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More details on Boston.com.

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Jamaica Plain is not a city.

Centre Street is not"Central Street."

Could Fox25 look at a map before they report how violent my neighborhood is?

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This is to much, every month some young guy is shot or stabbed. & its all because of these two gangs that have been created who fight over names of a street Boylston & Mozart. For the last two years about 14 kids haven been killed, 8 have been wounded, and some arrested. I cant believe that the police doesnt take serious actions over this, because not only are they killing each other but they are killing and hurting innocent people. This has to stop, because no one is going to want to live in an area where Violence is becoming priority. Its sad because the kid that got killed, I knew him. Like many of the other ones. R.I.P Johnel

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The end to violence starts at home.

There's only so much police can to to be proactive without the support of the community, parents, and relatives.

Band together, go to the police, and create a neighborhood watch group with others in your community and force a change. Start "snitching".

You can't expect the police to take care of this, especially when these kids don't value life at all. What the difference between a cop and another gang member to them?

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a growing sleeze factor on the SOPizza bock to the Cipizens Bank on the next block after dark.

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"Don't disrespect the pizza parlor!"

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I went out last night to pick my son up from Logan airport. I noticed the street was blocked off. When we returned we went down to see what the commotion was and were shocked. I live only two blocks from there for the past 20 years and have bought pizza here for over 30 years. While this is shocking I still feel safe in this neighborhood. This is not typical of the area. Generally the biggest problems are the vagrants in front of CVS and Citizens Bank that the merchants allow to mess up the sidewalks and beg but even they are pretty harmless. This is really shocking to me and I hope this was some random event. I am glad none of the employees or patrons were hurt and I do hope that the passerby who got hurt will be okay. I will still get my pizza there because it is the best.

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that the merchants allow to mess up the sidewalks and beg

It's a public sidewalk. The merchants have no say over what is or is not allowed.

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I'm your neighbor and one of the things i love about jp are the randoms on centre street-- the guy in the straw hat, the guy selling the wood carvings, the scraggly guys hanging out in front of the cvs.... it reminds me that i don't live in a suburb (no offense, suburbs).

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I live about a block from Fiore's and always get my prescription filled at CVS. I pass the straw hat guy regularly and definitely heard one of the other milk crate sitters call him "young man." I always wondered how a guy so young came into that life. I know crust punks do it all the time, but he seems legitimately homeless. Never asks for anything either.

Really bummed about the shootings and two people getting killed in my neighborhood. Same Old Place seems like such a random spot for it, though I guess it depends on who's sitting in the booths. A shame because they have the best pizza in town, but perhaps fortuitous that it's also easily the most expensive. It could have been a lot worse if there were more people around.

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Not knowing anything aside from what I've observed of him, he seems to have some kind of mental illness--just not quite all there at the best of times, but he is so young and there does seem to be something essentially sweet about him. The homeless folks on centre Street have always seemed pretty harmless and unobtrusive to me.

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Don't know much about him, but he has been the star of a music video, and his name is apparently Miles.

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Why, yes, of course: A Universal Hub post from last week about a bar re-opening!

Huh?

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don't worry, they only have ~5 years of life left.

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Not covering this story, it appears; there's nothing about it on their home page.

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Everyone calm down, it was an isolated incident that could have happened anywhere. All three of the people involved knew each other.

I used to live on Rockview which is two blocks down the road, this section and area are quite safe.

Martin from FOX 25, you have to be kidding me. You couldn't look up at the street sign to see what street you were on.. You were right underneath the dog gone sign..

It's CENTRE street. Are you new to Boston or something. JP is not a city and it's not the biggest part of Boston.

TOTAL
FAIL

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I used to live near Rockview as well, on Dresden St.
This happened in that "safe" neighorhood while I lived there:
My downstairs neighbor was robbed at gunpoint in front of my house on Dresden (he ended up moving because of it)
There were 5 muggings at gunpoint in one night on Boylston between City Feed and Centre St. right near my house.
A business man headed home from the T chased, beaten and mugged
There have been several other robberies over the years in that area
There was a 26 year old girl tackled by 2 men and robbed of her backpack last summer on Paul Gore.
A 20 year old was executed on the basketball court across from Stonybrook T a couple of years back. shot in the head
Many shootings, stabbings and muggings in the general vacinity of Stonybrook Station/Boyston St.
My car was broken into on Rockview...the whole area was rife with car break-ins the entire time I lived there. Everyone I knew in that neighborhood had there vehicle broken into.
My girlfriends window was shot out one night (yes...a bullethole) on Danforth across from Spontaneous Celebrations.
I could go on.
Don't be led into a false sense of safety...there is crime all over JP and it can reach any neighborhood.
The first week I was on Dresden I heard gunshoys down the street and police cars go flying by a minute later!
I eventually moved...it's a shame because it is a cool neighborhood. Time for the police to start taking it back before it gets really bad.

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Wow, this does sound really dangerous when you compile it like that! I live right near Rockview right now and actually have no problems with "safety" whatsoever.

What I'm really afraid of is Cambridge. That place is real dangerous.

Multiple armed robberies over the span of a week near Harvard Square. When the guy was caught he took a shot at the police!

Murder on the actual Harvard campus last year!

There are so many car break-ins there! It's an epidemic!

http://www.universalhub.com/node/17598

Execution outside a nightclub a few years back!

http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/features/x191...

It's a shame because it is a cool place but I wouldn't live there.

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You say they all knew each other -- but the woman on the other side of the street who was hit by shrapnel or a stray didn't know any of them. I for one will not "calm down" -- this is my neighborhood, this is a street and a place where I take my child, this was a time of night when I could have been passing by. I realize the neighborhood is generally safe, but there are obviously people who hang out here who think nothing of pulling a gun out on a busy street, in the early evening, and using it to solve their problems. That is a very sad thing, and a very scary thing, and nothing I feel very calm about.

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Why does it always come down to "the children?" It's a tragedy when anyone is shot. I will assume that you are staying in Boston and will have your kids go to Boston Public Schools or will you be one of the vast amounts of people that live in JP b/c it's cool until your kid enters school and then you move to Brookline, Newton or Needham?

People we live in the CITY. Unfortunately stuff like this happens EVERDAY in some areas of the city. This does not happen all the time in JP.

Is it scary? yes. Is it unfortuante? Yes. Can we stop ppl that don't give a hoot about anyone or anything? No.

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I have no idea on the numbers, but I'd be willing to guess that there are more "yuppie" white kids in JP who go to public high schools than any other neighborhood except maybe Westie, albeit it a lot of exam schools and charters. From what I've seen, the folks in JP are more likely than most to put their money where their mouth is, but then again, the schools issue is a whole different subject. The cultural and racial segregation of Boston schools is pretty alarming and not unrelated to the crime issue.

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I've lived in Jamaica Plain for 35 yrs. I've seen people come and go. The one thing that remains in this neighborhood is the violence. It can happen anywhere at anytime. The people who've been living there for the last 5-10 years, welcome to J.P.

It bothers me that people are more concerned about their pizza than the reason why these events happen in the first place. It bothers me that people only become concerned when the crimes affect them directly.

Look up how many kids have died in Jamaica Plain and the surrounding areas in the last 20 yrs. The newbies come in and color the old walls with pretty colors and think the hood is wonderland now! Wrong!

Then you have smart dumb people who still think these kids are still fighting over street names. They are fighting because of the neighborhood they live in not the name of the street!

And if you think the police are going to help in all this, keep dreaming. The cops and Fox 25 get checks to deal and report these situations. The reporter didn't even know the name of the street, what a joke.

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And I don't mean that as a snide/sarcastic comment, I'm serious. As a long-time resident, what do you think (if anything) could the neighborhood/community be doing to help reduce all of the violence in the area? I agree that a peace march is going to be not all that effective (maybe it'll make people feel like they're doing something) - so would you recommend mentoring at schools? More afterschool programs/available structured activities? Slipping valium into the water? I am earnestly, honestly curious.

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The only answer I see is drastically changing the demographic composition of the Bromley-Heath housing development. Would not completely solve the problem (I live on Boylston and have watched the number of corner boys explode over the last few summers) but it would be a start. Bromley-Heath is always going to be an anchor on JP's development into a safe community. That said, I knew what I was getting into when I bought in JP and would not change that decision. Love the neighborhood, hate the element that deems it OK to shoot one another over some trivial BS related to street names/housing developments/pizza.

The guys involved in this case are too old for after-school programming; I do like the valium in the water idea. My thoughts go out to the ownership at Same Old Place and the jogger.

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It is over a mile away from Same Old Place, and so far I haven't seen any claim that any of the participants in this gunfight lived there.

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i lept to the same conclusion, but yeah you're right, nothing definitely links it yet.

BUT, I think anyone would agree that Bromley Heath/Academy accounts for the vast majority of fatal violence within JP borders.

I agree with the statement, there needs to be a city-wide re-framing of how we think about public housing, how it is structured and planned. There should be public throughways going through BH, businesses, etc. As it is, Bromley-Heath is a mysterious moated kingdom that is a black hole in the neighborhood--

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The Manhattan Institute did an interesting piece last year on Atlanta's attempt at reinventing public housing, including elimination of the large "family" projects. Might be worth a look, especially for BHA officials.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle....

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Get rid of all snob zoning statewide, all single family zoning, too, and enforce fair housing laws.

That would spread lower income people out into mixed income areas, something Boston really sucks at, and stop concentrating poverty into pressure cooker areas.

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Pretty much this.

Section 8 and low income housing would be much less a factor if it was diluted and spread all across the city. Kind of hard to make a "street" gang when you're the only gang-banger wanabe in a mile or two.

Projects create low policed areas of low income personals that are ripe for these sort of things. Just as economically depressed neighborhoods and shanty towns do.

You really want to get rid of these things? Focus on jobs, both student jobs, after school programs to keep kids busy, and jobs after HS or college.

It's the economy stupid!

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Nah. You don't even live in the city of Boston.

Single family homes are great -- the last thing the city neighborhoods need is even more density.

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So the problem is "lower income people"; nothing like a little condescending social babble stereotyping.... show me your pay stub and I can tell if you're a trouble maker. You must be a Sarah Palin supporter.
When you move the lower income people around who would you invite in to replace them...
This will amaze you but most "lower income people" don't go around shooting at one another or mugging their neighbors.

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calm down.

Economic and family insecurity breeds this violence.

You can't group all poor people into that group, or course, but I'm pretty sure 99% of gang members are not college educated nor have the resume to make anything but minimum wage. Lets be realistic here.

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Replacing large monolithic projects with series of townhouses - and Sec. 8 vouchers - basically.

Washington-Beech in Roslindale is right in the middle of that - lots of nice looking townhouses, some of them rent to own (it does include one large building for seniors, but it looks like your basic modern apartment building, not the 1950s-era brick tenement structures it replaced).

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got to say I'm scratching my head over that one too--what does Bromley Heath have to do with this? I live near Boylston and there are plenty of guys who live right there who I wouldn't want to tangle with. Plus there are a bunch of other projects as close or closer, including the ones on South Street, Roslindale, etc.

I have to say I'm just steamed about this. I love the neighborhood--I can't imagine living anywhere else in Boston--but this stuff has gotten completely out of hand.

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I can tell you straight out, the problems aren't coming from there. One of the quietest public housing developments in the city.

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as far as I've ever heard. What I meant by my post is--I don't understand what this has to do with housing projects OR Bromley Heath specifically.

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If I am not mistaken, the Heath Street and H Block crews are responsible for a lot of the recent violence in JP. The former of which is "based" in Bromley-Heath. We as a society know that public housing of the sort present in Bromley (huge campus, no other uses present) is a failed social experiment. Re-design it to support its integration into the community and see where we are in a few years. I certainly did not mean to suggest that these three guys all lived in Bromley-Heath.

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They totally know your drink order at Costellos from before it burned and your morning order from Dunk's, don't they. Man, that's great.

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Hey Paul Bella i love your comment is the most honest from all. i personally knew one of the victims.all 3 of them are Dominican like me. their parents are from the same home town back in the DR. people can be so stupid and senseless caring more for pizza that for what actually happen and what we can do to prevent it. thank you so much yo made me feel much better. Boston is filled with violence and Jamaica Plain is not the exception. is funny how you mention that the reporter didn't even know the street name.

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I was born and raised in JP. My boyfriend, my sister and my sister's boyfriend all work at Same Old Place. For those of you who haven't been there, its a JP institution where generations of JP residents go for their pizza and subs. Its not fancy, its not a foodie wonderland, but it is a local establishment whose employees work hard and are part of the community. Its not uncommon to see police officers themselves in there at all hours of the day.

I am not going to make generalizations about who caused these acts. At the end of the day, it is clear that one or several individuals made poor choices that caused senseless loss of life, injury to a bystander, and harm community as a whole.

What I am left wondering is how we can provide young people (who the individuals involved were) with the support to make positive choices for themselves and their communities. Its up to us as a community to support programs and policies that make people living and coming into our community feel collectively responsible for its safety. Use this as an opportunity to educate yourself.

By the way- the "young man in the straw hat" is very intelligent, I went to high school at Boston Latin with him. The reason he chooses to live the way he does is something I am sure he wouldn't mind telling a kind, compassionate listener.

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You used "generations of local JP residents," "not a foodie wonderland," a hard-working employee reference, a shout-out to cops and a personal anecdote about a local homeless man all in the same post! Tell him what he's won:

Announcer: Thanks Chuck. Our poster has won an official UniversalHub "More Local Than You" T-shirt, the right to call anyone who hasn't lived here for 30 years a transient and a lifetime supply of steak tips courtesy of the Galway House!

Thanks for playing.

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This is a very helpful post; incredibly germane to the discussion. Thanks funny hipster guy! See you at City Feed on Boylston.

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See you at Costello's for "Drink Away The Pain" night,

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Hmmmm......

I shop at City Feed and Harvest, but also at Roche Bros. Tedeschi's (and I have multiple CSA subscriptions)
I love to eat at Costello's, Same Old Place but also at Ten Tables and Vee Vee and Centre Street Cafe
I like to cook complex meals involving exotic ingredients and I also like to get cheap takeout
I've bought clothes at Boomerang's and Goodwill and up and down Newbury Street
I like craft beer, I like cheap beer, I like some cheap wines, I like some expensive wines, I like scotch
I like art and I like sports
I like classic rock, I like jazz, I like electronic music, I like 20th century modernist composers
I like books, I like movies, I like tv, I like staring out the window
I have a masters degree and ambition, I also like to have days where I do nothing productive

Mostly I think I'm similar to my neighbors.

So wtf am I? If I can stereotype, most "Townies" probably think i'm a stuck up elitist. "Hipsters" think i'm an old bald bourgeousie doofus. Your mileage may very, but what's the f-ing point?

I moved to JP because when I visited it I got that sense that it didn't matter. The 22 year with the nose ring at JP Licks smiles at me, the bartender at Costello's smiles at me, the guy at Salmagundi smiles at me, that dry cleaners smile at me.

So as a JP resident I simply say I enjoy all of my neighbors and the people who make up that community--hipster, townie, student, retiree, professional, unemployed, rich, poor, homeless, or whatever else. If you're caught up on those labels, well I feel sorry for you--not all of us really give a shit about that.

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Fear not, I'm sure someone will find a snarky catchall for you. It's funny how some people pick and choose who they think it's fine to stereotype... seems like it's okay to denigrate long-time locals, hipsters, yuppies, SUV drivers, but God forbid someone sneeze in the general direction of one of their 'favored' groups! Hypocrites.

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for a wise and thoughtful post. I have to tell you that the first thing my daughter (another BLS kid!) said when I told her what had happened was "did anyone who worked there get hurt??" and when I told her no, she said "thank God--everyone in there is SO nice!!" This incident has really been preying on my mind all day but I am relieved that no more bystanders were seriously hurt. I didn't grow up here, but I love this neighborhood and plan to live here until they wheel me out.

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The latest from Boston.com

Sadly, this may mean we will never know what really happened.

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This means the shooter isn't around to hurt anyone anymore. My condolences to the family of the victim, but anyone who goes into a family restaurant across the street from an ice cream parlor and starts shooting in all directions doesn't elicit much sympathy from me.

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Apart from the question of what if anything provoked this, the reports on this story have been very confusing.

Is it right that there were only three men involved in the dispute? Are those the three men who are now deceased?

Were two of them eating at SOP when the third came in and started a dispute, or were they all there together when the dispute started among them?

How many of them had/fired guns? (If all three are dead now, I am guessing more than one, but I don't know.)

Did all three leave SOP at one point, or did someone (possibly injured) stay in SOP? (If someone stayed in SOP, was it one of the two men originally there, or the third man who came later?)

Were all the shots fired inside SOP? (It seems like at least one shot must have been fired outside for someone across the street to have been hit, although it's not impossible.)

What if anything happened outside SOP?

How did the police locate the men? (It seems that at least one might have been very badly injured, and did not run from police. Is that how it happened with all three?)

Is there some reason why names aren't being released?

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I would be shocked if at least one of the dead does not live on Boylston Street between Amory and Washington.

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Is there some reason why names aren't being released?

I can't answer most of your questions, but for this one, it's probably because they're waiting until they've positively ID'd all of the people in question and notified their next of kin.

For many of the questions, it may be the case that due to the ongoing investigation, they don't want to release some information publicly in fear of tipping off someone else who might be involved about what they know (some of the reports I have heard mentioned that some suspects fled, so it may be the case that more people were involved here). I'd give it a few days before I'd expect much more information to be released.

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Added to the top of the original post.

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What happened to the good old days when an urban killer would only take out one victim at a time? Seems like there's been an uptick in killings with several victims at the same scene. I know there are probably some multi-victim scenes each year, but seems like more this year after after the Mattapan massacre, then the one where the second victim wasn't found for an extended period of time, this one and I'm sure I'm forgetting others. I wonder if there has really been an increase or if it just seems that way. Sad.

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Like, the Charlestown 99.

Kinda sounds familiar, don't it?

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we called that "the Steak Tip murders".

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Sure, the Charlestown 99 in 1995, the Chinatown massacre in 1991, Black Friars in 1978. I wrote that there were probably some multi-victim scenes every year. I would say all of those mentioned above had an organized crime element to them though. My point was that the youth / gang violence seems to now have more multiple victim scenes this year, with three jumping to mind just since the Mattapan massacre on Sept. 28. I'm just wondering if it's coincidence or trend.

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That this was youth violence? Seems like a lot of information hasn't been released.

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look the kid was having lunch at the 99 with his co worker when the

luisi gang, a bunch of bullies, threatened the kid saying "you may not make it out of here today"..

he paniced and called his dad a vietnam vet with ptsd he drove up

went in and said why the F&%k is it always my kid? words were

exchanged and he started blasting away...

fred ciampa's same old place was a papas and before that in 1971

a chain called piece o pizza

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By city standards JP is relitivly safe, and by national standards it is still way above the statistical average for most urban areas with a similar population density. However, is it as safe as the Western suburbs? Hell no! It’s not even close. It’s only perhaps only in the middle of all Boston neighborhood’s in terms of safety.
The issue is that there is a lot of old gang activity in JP and the reality is that it has been that way since the late 1960’s or early 1970’s when the initial gangs of varied Latin American and Hispanic descent arrived on the scene. These gangs grew threw the 80 and 90’s into varied fragments that exist today. Unfortunately, every so often their activity which is significant in the area rears its ugly head it has been and will always be that way. However most of the yuppies who now call JP home don’t even notice that their neighborhood is tagged as gang turf on nearly every street corner. Read your graffiti and street art it’s all there. You are all living in the middle of a turf war with deep roots. You want pure safety for kids move to Newton.

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and other urban areas, even before the large influx of Latin Americans and Hispanics into the United States. Given the whole history of the United States, it doesn't make sense to pin the problem of gang activity on a certain group or groups.

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RIP BO & winzisky , DAMN it sucks you guys were suppose to be on your way to my house what happened?

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