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Flying through the Ball Square Green Line stop
By adamg on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 9:56pm
The Somerville Transportation Equity Partnership has posted this video along with other photos and renderings of the proposed stops along the fabled Green Line extension.
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Comments
Seems pretty reasonable....
Yet I don't understand why all the new, and re-done stations need to be mammoth, ugly, modernist buildings? They don't fit in with any of the neighborhoods they are in, and they look to be hugely expensive? If we are pinching pennies, why is this design all the rage?
Because
We're not pinching pennies. We're trying to waste as much money as possible, $10+ million on what should be a strip of asphalt. That's what they're trying to do, right?
At the very least it would
At the very least it would have to be a strip of asphalt and an elevator or ramp for access.
Th biggest costs are moving the existing commuter rail tracks to the east in order to create the right-of-way for the Green Line tracks. Might as well build a quality station facility once you're already committed to the much larger costs of squeezing two Green Line tracks and 2 commuter rail tracks into the space now occupied by just two commuter rail tracks for most of the way.
Also, fare payment facilities
The T doesn't want to replicate the existing D Line (or other surface branches) where everyone has to queue to pay inside the door of each train car.
Revenue enhancement (er, preservation)
That's a good reason, however, I was also hoping that the T didn't want to replicate the surface branches because it would allow for even more fare evasion.
Negative value proposition
I think the cost of installing, maintaining, and using fare gates probably exceeds losses due to evasion. That's why, in most other countries, systems as small as the MBTA rely on proof-of-purchase ticketing.
It's a question of degree of negative value
Agreed, but unless and until we are prepared to impose real fines (on the order of those charged in the other places you mention, which in Munich, for example, I believe are in the range of ~$250-300), and most importantly, an enforcement mechanism for making people pay (e.g., similar to parking ticket enforcement against registrations), proof-of-purchase ticketing won't work either. The fines need to be high to both pay for the enforcers (including all their benefites) and to act as a deterrent.
We have a particular problem with the enforcement mechanism here too, since so many of the users of the T are "part year" residents whom it would be more difficult to enforce against than full-time residents. That probably argues for making evasion a criminal offense (as it is on the Tube in London), but there will be no stomach for that here (rightly or wrongly).
We were on a bus in Paris
...that got "invaded" by a six-person ticket-checking swat team. A bit unnerving (even though my wife and I had our weekly passes safely at hand). People without adequate ID papers got arrested, others seem to have just been given tickets ($60 or so).
Enforcement in Paris
I saw this once, too, at the Bir-Hakeim metro stop. There were a fair number of actual police there, who were not messing around to the point that I thought something more serious had happened. A local informed me that it was a fare enforcement operation, and that some of the younger folk had become "snappy".
You're right
You set the fines and the patrols so that the expected value of fare evasion is negative. Also, you encourage people to get passes by offering good discounts, and lots of options. It should be easy to get a weekly CharlieCard, instead of having to find a special machine. They should probably even offer flexible dates, since the scanning is done by a handheld reader. (Instead of 7-day, offer N-day passes at the kiosks). Then you make it easy for people to tap as they go to the train, or onboard.
Caltrain has POP with high penalties, and they're pretty incompetent in most other respects (and awfully similar to MBCR that way). If they can do it, why can't we?
On a side note, would the MBTA ever consider Green Line OPTO in the portions that are completely fare-gated? That might actually recover some of the costs!
So put up a fence and some
So put up a fence and some turnstiles. Pre-paid fare collection doesn't necessitate a $50 million glass box.
Somebody
Hasn't been to Ball Square and seen what this will be replacing.
Hint: a parking lot and some weed trees and a couple of rather run down buildings.
"E - Park Street"?
That's a weird caption on that train - "E - Park Street?" Is stopping at Brigham Circle still too far?
I still don't quite
I still don't quite understand why they're extending the E line in this direction, yet the Arborway line through JP is left to rot.
Willful refusal to understand
Willful refusal to understand is not an excuse.
Hey! That guy didn't pay.
Hey! That guy didn't pay.
Park Street?
Did anyone else notice at the end that the train said "Park Street?" Is there anything to this? Would the trains out of Somerville actually going to end at Park Street or did they just put that in for the sake of it?
Since the present track
Since the present track layout has no provisions to easily short-turn a train from the Lechmere direction at Park St. (they can only easily turn from the west at Park), I wouldn't pay too much attention. The planning documents and ridership computer model estimates have assumed D Riverside trains continuing to Medford Hillside and E Heath trains continuing to the Union Sq.branch. I don't think anything is set in stone yet though, thus the Park St. destination. The E-Line will have to be one of the two lines extended though since its primary storage yard is at Lechmere and its equipment will have to come out of the proposed new maintenance facility and yard that will replace the present Lechmere yard.
Park Street terminus is actually impossible
from this direction. Only trains entering Park Street from the south can terminate and loop back there.
Can only short turn at Gov't Center
They could in theory use the Brattle loop at Government Center to short turn Sommerville trains. But everything I've read indicates through running of the D and E lines.
Must be fabled...
Because the maps in the station don't show the extension past Lechmere.
Noticed that too. In this
Noticed that too. In this reality it seems the T got the money to build the line, but lacked the operating funds.
It's not even a current map
You can see the SL3 on the map.
Why so much grass?
This is a neighborhood stop in a developed commercial area. It is not Quincy Adams, which is built for auto oriented commuters. Why so much grass around the station? You need the Green Line, not unnecessary "green space". Any grass around is just going to get trampled by riders setting their own walking patterns. It will get mowed three times a year and collect garbage. How about using that spaces for people's bikes and a HubWay location?
They will seriously need the bike space
This will be an intensively used bike-to-train station. I know I'm going to use it that way, as will my family, neighbors, etc. Take a look at how much bike parking Davis has - and, yet, how it is seriously inadequate for the demand.
Don't ya know
Cities need to be redeemed with tiny little fragments of "greenspace." It makes them "healthy" for all the folks who can't get away from all that dirty, unnatural city. You can drive by in your car and admire all the grass, and think about how lucky they are to have a small patch of the countryside in this "corrupted" place.
When in doubt, greenspace it out.
Don't Put Too Much On This
The "grass" is likely a space holder for "whatever" in the renderings. I can tell you right now that it would never grow in the places they have "painted" it into because of how the sunlight goes around that corner.
"Grass" here is a visual "this space left intentionally blank". It isn't needed as a walkway, so paint it green.
Nice work
You're the O-FISH-L of anti-open space paraphilia.
Thanks
Just anti-useless fragmentary open space though.
Strip of pavement, yellow paint, stairs to street level
an escalator, an elevator, and a small ticket station/house/whatever like they have at Gov't Center. Voila, it doesn't need to be such a production. Shouldn't "lean times" call for "lean solutions"?
Actually....
Just an elevator, not too many steps to climb in order to reach street level. Simple, sorta like Porter Commuter Rail stop. Too bad the adjoining subway stop looks like crap. Foggy dirty glass pyramid, and twirling faded red spoons. What about a nice brick building, eh? Concrete and glass does not age well.
Agreed...
I like that they're trying to "class up the place", but that neo-brutalist stuff looks good for maybe five years, tops. I was a kid when they built Porter and Alewife, and I remember them looking awesome and futuristic, until about 1992 or so when they started to go all yellow/brown and bleh.
Having said that, Courthouse and World Trade Center (on the Silver Line) look OK from the outside, and they've been there for a while. Maybe the key is more metal and glass, less concrete.