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Wait, what? Somebody's thinking Roche Bros. is first step in destruction of Davis Square
By adamg on Sat, 09/27/2014 - 9:16pm
Shades of JP: Somebody went down Hawthorne Street in Somerville today, putting fliers on car windshields warning how the proposed Davis Square Roche Bros. would be the first step in turning the square "corporate."
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God forbid
God forbid those big corporations come in and push out those mom and pop stores like Starbucks, Chipotle, CVS, H&R Block, Boston Sports Clubs, Pinkberry, Bank of America, Eastern Bank, Family Dollar, Mc Donalds and Dunkin Donuts.
no more McDonald's in Davis Square
That closed last year. A Korean restaurant, Bibim, will open there in November.
The reverse has happened
Uh, the Pinkberry empire has already fallen., Closed.
Pinkberry in Davis Square
Hard to tell yet whether the closure is temporary or permanent. A flood around the end of July caused it to close, rather than lack of business. However, I never saw a lot of people in this store, and its design was unattractive and uninviting compared to iYO and Orange Leaf (which were already open a block away when Pinkberry came along).
Ha!
Roche Brothers was started in Needham by a family when Needham was a middle class town. They are employee and customer friendly.
Not Needham - Roslindale
My mother went to school with the Roches. Their first market was in Roslindale Sq on the same footprint that is now the Village Market. After Roche's left that location several other businesses were there, with that building later being raised and the Village installed.
They were a tad closer to
They were a tad closer to Washington street......
First store as meat and produce market:
http://www.rochebros.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/1ST_Store.png
First Needham store :
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-0/s240x240/251776_41...
Imperial Kitchen
The imperial kitchen is now at that site.
shades of JP
would be opposition to tearing down mcgrath because it's the last line of defense against the gentrification of east somerville.
Wait until utter pandemonium
Wait until utter pandemonium sets in on Thursdays with $5 Buck Cluck (miniature rotisserie chickens).
More like pandemonium when
More like pandemonium when Perdue shows up with a 53' trailer at 600 am with 10 pallets of chicken .( There used to be a chicken plant on Cambridge Street Cambridge nearby, )
The chicken plant is still on
The chicken plant is still on Cambridge St.
http://www.mayflowerpoultry.com
they have full size
they have full size rotisserie chickens for $5 every day at market basket.
That's typically the
That's typically the evolution of urban neighborhoods... Davis Square, you're next! It's been headed in that direction for more than a decade anyway. Too bad for smart and curious people who give a damn about interesting independent shops and good for the bros who must have their Dunkies extra-gulp sludge in a cup, etc.
Do people still use thermoses
Do people still use thermoses anymore ?
I do
I think I'm people.
I think it's a lost art.
I think it's a lost art. Beverages, and even some beef stew in the winter, but there is no app for it.....
Mason jars
are what the kids use. But there seem to be plenty of insulated coffee cups around, though I wouldn't call them Thermoses exactly. And they are not tartan. Wow...beef stew in a Thermos.
Mason jars are great, they're
Mason jars are great, they're like a thermos without the benefits.
Some kids do
My 18 year old college commuter just asked for a new one, actually. He brings hot food to school with him all the time.
--------------------------
You'd understand this one, Kvn - when I was little, my Dad had to ride a plow on I-5 through a notorious mountain pass. He'd sometimes be in the cab for a very long time, since it was wall to wall snow.
My Mom would hand him a thermos of coffee, a thermos of stew/soup, and an empty pickle jar with a tight-fitting lid for his journey.
Swirls , I did the same thing
Swirls , I did the same thing. I used to plow for a contractor that was assigned Dorchester- Roxbury. Took a thermos of tea, as nothing was open then overnite. It was wild back then !
( I made a funny , you probably never heard of the radio station. )
WILD
I had college housemates who would listen in - put it on the kitchen radio. You could get it in Kenmore Square, then - possibly better then WLYN.
This location has been vacant for years
ever since Social Security office closed and moved to Cambridge in 2010. During many of the years before that, it was a WT Grant department store -- a national chain.
People who've lived here much longer than me remember small supermarkets in the Square. Roche Bros. will just be bringing that back. Everyone I know welcomes it.
Next?
Davis Square was hipster central two decades ago. By now the gentrification has progressed to the realm of 800K condos in triple-deckers. A "penthouse" means the roof shed door comes off your unit.
Commercial rents are high enough now to drive out low-margin boutiques (even boutiques that can afford to stay open on Newbury St.). There's nowhere to go from here but wall-to-wall bank branches. The trustafarians in Davis would maybe prefer Louis Boston or a boutique hotel?
Next next?
Where are the next affordable yet cool neighborhoods people are moving to? Will Roxbury/Dorchester ever happen?
Oh, no! What will we do?
Oh, right, a short walk up College Ave and you encounter a vacant storefront. Or go towards Teele, and there's no shortage of them. Or towards Porter (has anything replaced McIntyre & Moore yet?)
vacant storefronts?
I can't think of one on College Avenue at all; where is it?
The former Bob Slate and McIntyre & Moore building on Mass Ave in Porter Square is vacant because it's about to be demolished and replaced with new development.
Um, huh?
Don't know where you are talking about - the only "vacancy" near Teele is where the huge fire happened and burned out several very longstanding businesses. There is some turnover on College Ave. in that short section near the T station, but that's just turnover - no blight. Even Ball Square has few vacancies these days, and those are likely GLX related.
Otherwise, I can't say I have the slightest idea what the heck you are talking about here - and I bike these roads 6-10 times a week.
please allow me to provide the official jp/hyde sq comment...
I would have done the happy dance if HiLo had been replaced by Roche Brothers rather than Whole Foods.
Of course it's just a short
Of course it's just a short bike ride over to the giant West Roxbury Roche Brothers from JP.
I welcome it
The unfriendly roadway changes that hamper commerce and truck deliveries will ultimately make this store charge outrageous prices and/or fail. Then, the mayor and planning department might wake up from their dreams of streets too narrow for trucks to travel or turn on safely.
The Market Basket in hipster Union Square doesn't run out of bicycle parking, but car parking, and often. Parking is yet worse in Davis such that purchase quantities are small like what people would get at a Tedeschi's or bodega, with commensurate pricing.
They're Building A Market Not A Warehouse
You might want to look into what you are talking about before you stick your car in your mouth.
It took me a mere 30 seconds to locate this article, read it in its entirety, and find the relevant information along with the depiction of the building in question.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/08/19/roche-bros-eye-davis-...
They're not opening a supermarket and they're not opening a convenience store. They're looking to open a market that has real food, in the European model. And in case you were not knowledgeable about how smaller scale deliveries work: most fresh produce, fish and meat purveyors deliver with small box trucks or sometimes even smaller, converted pickups.
And hipster derision? You'll need a time machine to go back to when that was relevant.
Dude , their vendors are not
Dude , their vendors are not going to acquire special trucks just to service this store. Logistics, American style , bigger is better. Just check out one of their stores loading docks to see what comes and goes.Bozzuto from CT. supplies the groceries , drops trailers I believe. Kilduff the vegetable guy runs trailers and ten wheelers. It's all about critical mass.
!Super Market
This is not intended to be a typical grocery store. The distinction is well described in the article I linked. With the kind of product, quantity, and turnaround they use they're not going to be using the mega-shipment per week method most stores use. The approach for stores like this is to more typically use the same kind of purveyor methods that restaurants use.
But anyhow the real point of my previous post is that the store is not designed for Markk to drive up in his car and buy 12 bags of groceries. It is for walking to and buying what you want for dinner that night.
The Bros. already have their
The Bros. already have their supply chain, as this gives them the best price due to their volume. I don't think they are going to transition to a new groove, say like the Tedeschi little stores have. Their supply chain is unique to their operation. I have been in distribution, believe me , commodities are rammed and slammed to make critical mass. And I have trailered through Davis square, shippers don't care about practicality or sensitivities.
The Bros. get their major grocery order out of CT, they are not going to ferry a few pallets a day up from there. Kilduff the produce guy is giving them a daily delivery, fleet truck size, how many ever pallets a day as they use. The rest of their vendors are just going to add a stop to the truck that is the closest to Davis square. It's just business as usual , you gain some , you loose some...... But the Bros. know their onions, they will do okay. Nice deli store cooked roast beef, the best Jerry , the best.
They know Their Onions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W12wEHZzIuo
Ruffling some cobwebs inside
Ruffling some cobwebs inside my squash, I remember the Purity Supreme in Cambridge Central Square used to have a home delivery for your bags , they would convey them to the rear of the store, and some service must have delivered them. Roche Brothers in their first store in Roslindale Square , before it was villaged , had home delivery, as had most of the littler markets back then. This would work in the Davis Square scenario. You shop , take a bag or two with you , have the rest delivered. Not like Peapod , you would actually pick out your own stuff, although the Brothers have their own home delivery via gadgetry system. Thus , you could walk and shop , no need for the autocar for the dozen bags, paper or plastic , your choice.Is everybody happy , or what. And don't even try to mess with the parking ticket enforcers , the HQ is just up the way onto Teele , outside of the Square.
I buy small quantities at supermarkets
You make a clearly false assumption that going to a supermarket is only to buy a week's worth of food. Have you seen the trunk of a 1990's Mazda Miata? Its not like your SUV. It doesn't fit so much, nor would would I want to buy massive quantities. I rather shop 2-3 times a week and get fresher each time.
The trucking issue is about economies of scale. Small daily deliveries is more expensive than larger, weekly or 2x/week ones. That will be reflected in the prices charged customers. To repeat another great point, having an efficient distribution system built on loading docks and tractor trailers fed by fork lifts, going to one based on vans and hand transfer of thousands of pounds of goods costs more to run.
But, whatever. People living in Davis Square get to pay more for most everything, so, why not groceries too.
BTW, Arlington used to have an A&P market (that used to be a car dealership). Its now a Walgreen's. The proposed Roche's must be a steampunk interpretation on grocery stores of yore!
One of their vendors is
One of their vendors is Captain Marden’s. I have seen their delivery truck. It is not huge. It is actually about the same size as their Food Truck.
http://www.captainmardens.com/buy.htm
Yes , that's one vendor , not
Yes , that's one vendor , not even a pallet of goods I bet . Go to the rear of another RB store and see the assortment, some small, some larger or larger. The can goods and major grocery comes out of Ct. by trailer. No one is going to tailor their fleet for one store, big is in.
Giant Arse Tour Buses
They seem to have no issue navigating their way in and through Davis when bands play at the Somerville Theater. Take a look behind the buildings on that side of Elm St. There were truck-dependent businesses in this stretch in years past. It will likely be a matter of limiting delivery times and removing some of the landscaping on the corner.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Davis+Square,+Somerville,+MA/@42.3937893,-71.1214184,107m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89e37718e8045c57:0xa391027f1d5bb552
Also, I've never had an issue driving to Davis when I have chosen to, so I'm not feeling the angst here. For those who insist on driving to the grocery store, there's other choices in the area.
Access to alot of businesses
Access to alot of businesses on Elm street rearage requires Chester into Herbert and out via Day street. It is a mamma jammma on a good day, worse if people park too close to corners, to make the turns.
I live on Day Street and I'm willing to put up with that
in exchange for getting a new small supermarket in my neighborhood.
The article also mentions
that the "store" will be occupying 13,300 square feet. This does not sound like a small "mom and pop" store to me but like, um, a supermarket.
The article also does not mention what type of vehicles will be delivering the food.
Also, when I was growing up, my parents did not go every other day to the local supermarket. Once a week. On Fridays. So I am not sure how far back Connolly is going to when folks shopped every other day.
That's quite small for a supermarket
Even the tiny little ex-Foodmaster Whole Foods on Beacon Street near Inman Square is a little bigger than that. Here is a list of Somerville supermarkets and their square footages.
Yes, it is on the lower end of the scale, true...
I am thinking more to "back in the day" supermarkets (since the article was alluding to a time past). The place that my family shopped, for example, a Star Market (before Shaws was even known in these parts) was considered a supermarket but surely not as large as what we now know as supermarket super stores (30,000 or more square feet).
Needless to say, the "mom and pop" corner stores (where one could pick up a few items like milk and/or canned goods) that I remember were not 13,000 plus square feet.
Interesting facts:
http://www.fmi.org/research-resources/supermarket-facts
I am imagining a setup like
I am imagining a setup like the old A&P markets , a supermarket chain that had a bunch of neighborhood focused stores in the local business center, in a few store fronts. Actually , a lot like the original Roche Bros. Examples that I can think of that might be similar to the new Bros. plan are the Atlantic Supermarket in Reading or the Crosby's Marketplace of the north shore.But they have loading docks.......
Central Square has an H-Mart
Central Square has an H-Mart and no dedicated parking. Just metered street parking and city pay-lots nearby. The world has not ended.
Trader Joe's on Boylston St in Back Bay has no dedicated parking either. Just the metered on-street and private garages nearby. The store is busy all the time, one of the busiest Trader Joe's in fact.
Perhaps one of the reasons the Market Basket lot is so over-full in Union Square is the fact that it's free to park there. I'm sure if they gave away free toilet paper they'd run out of that pretty quickly too.
Bicycle parking is free too
and yet no rush on that!
Sixteen bicycles
That's how many fit in a parking space.
In other words, sixteen customers for businesses. If you can come up with a way to charge a nickel an hour, I'd pay it.
The bike parking at Market
The bike parking at Market Basket is often full, as others have said. Clearly, you haven't actually been there or you would know that. They've added more racks and will likely need to add more.
Not True at All
BZZZZZT! When I've gone there at peak times on my bike, to pick up a few things, I've had to park my bike some distance away because the rack is massively over full and every free post within a block is taken up, too.
The only time this isn't true is at the times that I have been willing to drive to do a BIG SHOP ($250 worth, usually) - in other words, the times I known that I can easily park. When I can park within three spaces of the store is when there are bike spaces.
Somerville Market Basket bike parking
After some pressure from the city, Market Basket last year added another, bigger bike parking rack on the west side of the store, across from the Indian grocery. The city asked for this because too many cyclists were locking their bikes to the cemetery fence and damaging it --- and Market Basket had earlier donated the funds to restore that same fence.
so THAT's who those camoflaged guy were...
...advance team making the world safe for Roche Bros..wondering if they will still carry groceries to your car.
RB cares about it's employees, unlike those big,scary chains?
I worked at RB in West Roxbury, their flag-ship store, and trust me on this, they are no different than any similar store. And they pretty much only hire P/T now, max 26-27 hrs, no benefits. They also will arbitrarily force employees to move to other stores, often 20-30 miles away. Most of these employees are making $10.-15. an hour.
And trust me on this, behind the scene in the West Roxbury store is insane. And I've witnessed behavior by some people there that would unquestionably get them immediately fired anywhere else.
You are probably thinking sour grapes, absolutely not at all. But this RB worship that I've noticed go on here gets under my skin.
Somerville zoning board has approved the Roche Bros. store
They did this at their meeting two days ago.