By adamg on Wed., 3/11/2015 - 7:29 am 
Clay Harper, who has been chronicling plans for the Casey Overpass, watched workers smooth out the new temporary lane along the overpass yesterday, in preparation for the demolition of the overpass. The work has also included taking down trees - yesterday, workers chopped down the trees along the upper busway at the Forest Hills T station.
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Casey Overpass Construction Traffic
By PeyoteEatingWat...
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 8:01am
The first casualty of the Casey Overpass teardown has been the punctuality of the 21 bus. It normally takes about 15 min to get from Ashmont Station to Forest Hills. Last Monday, the same trip took me a little bit under an hour. I have a feeling that traffic is going to be shitty from now on, even after the construction is done.
Things will impove
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 9:46am
Or at least that's what the MassDOT people are claiming, with a chorus of anti-bridgers singing along. Maybe a minute or 2 longer to get from Franklin Park to the Arboretum, but that's it. And there should be no impacts coming from Hyde Park or Roslindale.
That's what they're claiming.
(Of course, to be fair, things like construction and horrendous snowfall should not be taken as the norm, but people will remember what things were like before.)
Just my guess...
By Anon
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 8:45am
My uneducated guess is that when done, traffic will back up to the medical center in one direction and Blue Hill Ave in the other. And, good luck to Roslindale businesses wanting customers from J.P., for instance.
First of all...
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 9:44am
like its so easy now? Driving through Forest Hills from JP to Roslindale is always a CF. Second--unless you are going to Staples to buy three boxes of printer paper or you're infirm, this attitude is part of the problem. There are how many buses that go through FH to Rozzie? You can bike there in maybe seven minutes. You can probably walk in twenty. Yes, it'd be great if we could magically drive everywhere and encounter no traffic, parking shortages, etc but that's not the city we live in. If we rethought the way we use transport, we could eliminate a lot of the traffic that we--the traffic--complain about.
So your advice to car drivers is?
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 9:51am
Stop using your car? I hope you realize that there are people in Roslindale who would sooner drive to Dedham than through Forest Hills traffic. And this number will increase if the nay sayers are correct.
Not easy to change people's views when there are alternatives to going someplace.
Right now unless my bus in the morning hits a cluster of school buses, I am at Forest Hills from the Square in 8 to 10 minutes (leaving aside the time waiting for the bus.) I walk home, but the time is usually the same. I'll report back come May, and remember that I am just taking a route that intersects with the Casey, not the Casey itself.
How about
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 9:56am
Don't expect using a car in the city to be convenient and fast, or the entire infrastructure to cater to car usage when it physically or economically cannot do so.
Use a car and you are dry, comfortable, and have control of your immediate physical environment. If you want it to be fast and convenient? The US has plenty of habitats that are designed for that. Boston and the surrounding communities were built for people and horses and trolleys and other lower-speed conveyances.
Sorry not everyone has the same views as
By anon
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 10:20am
The tumble weed socialist from JP.
Maybe i should trade in my car for a tandem bike, buy a new pair of keen sandals and tell my kid he cant play sports anymore because the holier than thou drifters from JP have said i can no longer drive.
Maybe i should move to Medford!
Oh you are so hilarious!!
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 12:31pm
I somehow managed to raise a kid in the city without a car and yes, sometimes it was an unholy pain in the arse, but if you want to be able to drive your little darlings everywhere without them ever having to set foot on pavement or public transport, Medford might not be far enough. Maybe Dallas.
You know, I had a dream the other night...
By lbb
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 2:43pm
It involved my boss, my hair stylist, an ex from about fifteen years ago, and my high school French teacher, and it was every bit as connected to reality as this hallucination you just shared with us.
Even better
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:09am
Don't wreck the infrastructure and call it progress.
Look, do I like sounding like Markk? No, but the fact that concerns about future traffic of many, including bus riders like myself and Michael Kerpan (who I have ridden on a bus with in the past), are dismissed so easily is not a good thing. When somehow the response to those who worry about it taking longer to drive from Jamaica Plain Center to Roslindale Square is to just walk, how does that help? Like I say, there will be people who will stop going from A to B to shop, which will be bad for business. If people don't care, they don't care, but don't pretend that it isn't an issue.
"Wreck the infrastructure?"
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:16am
Come on--it's no newsflash that the infrastructure is wrecked. Crumbling, defunct, falling apart. Just because they are not replacing it with an exact replica of itself doesn't spell disaster. And I honestly don't understand the sky-is-falling attitude from people who are generally pretty progressive and thoughtful about this kind of thing.
Exactly
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:22am
And don't expect the entire state to pay massive amounts of money to reconstruct, repair, and maintain that expensive bit of wreckage because you don't like change - particularly when that bus you are riding and other parts of the public transit system need the funding and benefit far more people.
So we shouldn't be repairing any roads or bridges?
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:54am
Until the T is fixed up?
Part of my problem is that what is being sold is that traffic will not get worse. I've written it dozens of times, and will probably write it dozens of more times, but I don't buy it. I may just be proven wrong yet, but being right in this case is much worse than being wrong.
Also, if spending massive amounts of money to reconstruct, repair, and maintain a road to keeps cars off a busy street is bad, why did they do the Big Dig rather than just ending the Southeast Expressway at Dewey Square and starting the highway up again at the Charles. It would have saved billions, and drivers would have adjusted.
No
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 1:20pm
But we shouldn't be wasting massive amounts of money replicating extremely costly failures when less costly solutions are available because some people fear that "well thought out change" = "sky is falling panic".
Casey over-the-hill-pass
By Ju And
Wed, 03/25/2015 - 7:55am
The Overpass Should be refurbished and crafted into a jewel at the end of the emerald necklace. The Zakim Bridge in the north and the Casey in the south.
My advice to car drivers is
By Baker-Christie 2016
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 10:00am
My advice to car drivers is stop voting down gas tax increases to pay to improve infrastructure. The less expensive option was chosen for many reasons (people who live there over people passing through is one), but another is cost. Drivers have had the tax tax increase 3 cents in 20 years, that isnt going to buy much.
My advice would be to use it less.
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:22am
I'm fully aware that not everyone can hop on their fixie and pedal to work but small changes in attitude and behavior can make a huge difference. Again--for people driving in cars to complain about "traffic" is nuts--they ARE traffic. To expect to cruise seamlessly from Roslindale to Copley Square in your car is just kind of nuts. And to try to redesign an urban landscape purely to accommodate more people who expect to be able to do that is kind of nuts too.
Some of us depend heavily on public buses....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:27am
... and buses use roads too. And perhaps some of us are not able to use bicycles instead of buses.
All Aboard
By BlackKat
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:47am
If the people driving would get on the bus with you then that would solve the problem, no?
The buses I typically ride....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:56am
... are generally at or near capacity during busy periods.
So again...
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 12:34pm
Maybe work to improve routes and increase the number of buses with the goal of reducing the number of drivers on the road...who slow down the buses. I commuted by bus across boston for years, so I have every sympathy (and lots of great stories...) but the roads are not the problem. Too many cars is the problem.
You've never taken the
By anon
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 12:43pm
Bus from Forest Hills to Rozie Sq have you (or vice versa)? It takes about 30min to travel a little over a mile.
The MBTA insists that all 10 buses make every stop (Aprox 6) along that mile stretch of Washington, add school buses and the fact its a one lane street; you're better off using a Pogo stick or driving the back roads to the Sq.
So ya, no such thing as a quick trip to Rozie Sq. via the MBTA!
30 minutes?
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 1:44pm
Come on. That's just hooey.
I agree
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 2:11pm
And despite your thoughts on people ditching their cars, your points on time and distance to/from Roslindale Square are spot on. It takes me 18 minutes from the busway to Adams Park walking, and admittedly I am a fast walker, so the walk can be done in 25 minutes without breaking a sweat. A 30 minute bus ride is possible, but only in a worst case (rush hour when schools are in session and the roads are narrowed by snow or an accident has occurred) scenario. If you don't count waiting, which to be honest is nothing on the line, it's a 10 minute ride, maybe 15.
Of course, the future is where we part company, but I cannot see the ride going longer than 25 minutes for an average commute in a worst case scenario when all this is done.
I'm really not saying that everyone needs to ditch cars
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 2:54pm
Trust me--I've always depended on cars in some way, and leaned heavily on Zipcars, friends with cars, etc. for all those getting to X meet in Brighton or picking up five teenagers from a party in Hyde Park. But it's kind of like eating meat--we know it sucks for the planet, it's unsustainable, etc. but I wouldn't say "no more meat!" I would say though--lets find a way to do without it a couple days a week. Let's get creative; let's discover the joys of veggies, and think about a different plan for the future. Because yeah--if just ten percent of people start taking the 20 minute walk from Rosi Square to FH--or Hubwaying or whatever, then you get ten percent fewer cars on the road.
Apologies in advance for the most JP analogy ever...
Hubway!
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 3:08pm
I don't think it's what the folks are thinking of, but if a station was in Adams Park, I think a lot of people would use it. Sadly, as commuters (and I count myself in that bunch) more than quick trips en lieu of car/bus, but still.
Remember Roslindale people, they say 30 minutes exercise a day. That's 20 minutes right there!
(btw, not the most JP analogy, and though we disagree on the bridge/no bridge, no need to apologize)
We have been stuck on Washington....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 3:18pm
... going from Metropolitan to Forest Hills for as long as 45 minutes, and there have been points (when light timing has been especially screwed by the traffic department) where it has taken pretty near 30 minutes to go from Roslindale Square to Forest Hills (or vice versa).
On a bad day, yes
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 4:23pm
I can't comment on the Metropolitan to Corinth backup, but I would say that on an average day, 30 minutes is only in people's minds.
Back when the Firth/South lights were screwed up royally I used to pass buses walking home from the station. To be clear, I am talking buses that left the station before my train arrived. Nowadays, the walk is more exercise, but it was once, and perhaps might once again be, the quicker way.
It largely depends....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 4:35pm
... on just how much school bus impact. If you are on a bus traversing this route at a school bus maximum time, you are very very screwed.
some days it's really that bad
By anon
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 3:38pm
I often like to play the game - "can I walk faster than the bus?" if I can see traffic is backed up in the evenings. usually you can't tell until the bus makes it past ukraine. It's part of the reason I had started biking to work - which I hope to start back up again soon.
and getting to forest hills - some mornings maybe 3 or 4 completely full buses will pass you - then you wait another 15 minutes and there are 10 buses all clumped together with another 2 or 3 completely full - then you'll get to maybe archdale and traffic won't be moving - if things are moving the trip to FH from my house via the bus is about 10-15 minutes (includes walking and waiting for bus) - this morning it was 45. Really - the T should extend the orange line to rozzie square - it would solve so many problems.
Really?
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 9:52pm
This morning?
Today I got on the bus at Corinth Street at 7:30 and got to Forest Hills at 7:40, give or take on either side.
Unless you hit the jackpot of school buses, trash pickup, and something else, 45 minutes is a flight of fancy. I've never seen that on a normal (no snow narrowed roads or similar obstacle) day, even getting to the Square at 8:05, which was Monday (again, 10 minute ride, with a medical emergency on the Orange Line almost making me late.)
But Corinth....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 9:58pm
... for me is around halfway to Forest Hills. Anon might be in a similar situation. ;-}
And this morning
By Waquiot
Thu, 03/12/2015 - 9:25am
At the bus stop at 8:09, running to get the bus. It made all stops, though it was crowded. Got to Forest Hills by 8:18. No school bus traffic, and trash pickup was yesterday.
You are a bit screwed in that there is but one bus for you to take, but for people close to the square, there are buses galore. My rule in general is to avoid the school bus times. I would imagine that if I were 10 minutes later the situation would have been different, but then again there was no gaggle of schoolkids at Archdale to indicate that the yellow buses were due.
There are ways...
By lbb
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 2:45pm
...to design roads and regulate traffic that work to the advantage of buses. Maybe that's what you should be calling for?
Another take on your advice
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:49am
Stop shopping and eating out in Jamaica Plain, since that is not necessary.
I don't expect to be able to drive anywhere with ease, but if the fears of the bridge folk are true (admittedly, a debatable point, but that don't mean they won't be wrong) why would people go through a chokepoint that will be more choked unless they have to? South of Forest Hills is full of households with cars. If people want convenience, they won't want to go that way.
I know the overpass is coming down one way or another. I just don't see the sense in reducing capacity. I'm not asking for more road capacity, just to keep the capacity we have.
I am glad you aware of that, however,
By whyaduck
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:57am
and in relation to your first post, not every human being, obviously, is able to ride a bike and/or walk to their destination. So many people tend to drive a car to get from point A to point B.
Our current culture operates around the automobile and we, meaning the collective "we", generally cater to that fact. Yes, Boston has been open to accommodating other modes of travel, like bikes, which is great and wonderful, but getting around via car is still paramount.
Culture is difficult to change, in general, and takes time. So until then, we need to accommodate the car drivers which means considering how well car traffic can flow through an area, in designing our urban landscapes, so it will not be considered "nuts" to expect not to experience a CF in certain areas of the city.
Constricted car flows....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:57am
... mean major bus transportation problems.
Fair point.
By whyaduck
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 11:58am
n/t
Why?
By lbb
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 2:46pm
If you've designed your infrastructure so that buses and cars have equal priority, you're doing it wrong.
Bassackward thinking
By itchy
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 7:56pm
Cars are dominant because transportation policy made them that way.
By insisting that they remain so, you are perpetuating a dismal failure and a historical mistake.
Who are you addressing?
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 8:33pm
This doesn't seem to directed to my observation that (private) car congestion imperils (public) bus transportation. But maybe I am missing something.
"For now..."
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 1:12pm
The problem is that there is no "for now." Building for cars means planning the future for cars, and a city designed around making it easy to drive everywhere is just not sustainable. Fifty years ago very few folks in JP or Roslindale owned a car but since then the idea of living without one or even with only one per family has gotten more and more rare. Luckily I think a lot of people have seen the futility of the course we're on and are doing their best to reverse this trend.
Another Consideration
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 1:25pm
Making things easier for people to get around without a car means that more people who are able to do so will leave cars at home.
More people using bikes, walking, and transit for short trips means fewer cars on the road.
Fewer cars on the road means greater convenience and more parking options for people with disabilities, people making deliveries, etc.
Can you substantiate this claim?
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 1:27pm
> Fifty years ago very few folks in JP or Roslindale owned a car
I have no idea about JP, but I strongly suspect this is totally not true of Roslindale.
(member of a 5 person household with only one car -- for 17+ years)
Roslindale Shifting
By BlackKat
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 2:37pm
But the demographics may have shifted.
50 years ago if you lived in Roslindale it might have been with a full family unit with one car.
Now in that same property you might have a young couple with 2 cars, or a few roommates each with their own car.
I'm betting that 50 years ago....
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 3:20pm
... full families (with lots of kids) already had 2 cars, one for each parent.
In 1965? No way.
By Sally
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 6:17pm
I'm sure other folks will know stats or have personal anecdotal info on Roslindale fifty years ago but I'm pretty certain that visually no middle class families of that era would have had two cars. Where did Mom need to drive? And who could afford it?
Women didn't drive
By itchy
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 7:53pm
A lot of them didn't know how! My MIL didn't learn until she was nearly 40 even though she had moved to the 'burbs nearly ten years before. Around 1970, when she got a job outside the house.
She wasn't unusual in the least for urban women of her generation. The family had one car, and men drove it.
In my working class Tulsa neighborhood in the the 60s
By Michael Kerpan
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 7:54pm
2 car families was the norm. Didn't live in Roslindale then, but large swaths of it are (and apparently always have been) rather poorly served by public transportation.
Regional Differences
By SwirlyGrrl
Wed, 03/11/2015 - 8:50pm
My mom learned to drive as a teen in Oregon - late 1950s. Most women knew how to drive, even if the family had only one car. My grandmother was a similar story twenty years before that.
My husband's mom, Dot Rat to the core? Learned to drive in the 1960s. She's now in her 80s, so it was around the same time that her eldest learned to drive. Some of her friends and relatives never learned.
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