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Olympics backers claim 100,000 to 125,000 jobs, but admit not all will be paid
By adamg on Tue, 02/24/2015 - 8:41am
WBUR reports on a Boston 2024 community meeting in Roxbury:
"Let me talk about jobs specifically," Fish said. "When you talk about hosting an Olympic and Paralympic Games, there will be over 100,000 to 125,000 jobs, between volunteers and newly created jobs. This can be, we feel confident, benefit the entire community."
But asked how many will be paid and how many will be volunteer, Boston 2024 CEO Richard Davey didn’t have an answer.
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TEMPORARY jobs
These are not the sort of permanent jobs that build community.
Want fries with that?
Most of the time when someone
Most of the time when someone's talking about projects "creating jobs," they're temporary jobs, for example government construction projects. They always tell you how many "jobs" a new highway or transit station will create, but that's only during the few years that construction is ongoing.
the few years that construction is ongoing
Welcome to Boston. We try to do things differently around here.
Yeah. 125,000 jobs for what?
Yeah. 125,000 jobs for what? Two weeks? (Yes, some jobs will be construction jobs, but still.) Whoop-dee-freakin'-do.
creation
This is utter BS.
My next question is out of all these jobs that will be created? How many will last after the games are over. My guess is pretty much zero.
Sorry, temporary jobs are meaningless to us. Give me real jobs that will last months.. years.. after the games. Then come back and try to pitch this boondoggle of an idea again.
This is all false 'hope' that the games are 'good for us'.
Speakin of which, Chris Farone was babbling on twitter about how BPS School kids will make uniforms for Boston2024 athletes? How true is that? (I'm asking..)
And...
It's not a JOB if you aren't getting paid! Can I say I work 3 jobs because I also "work" for the MSPCA and the Special Olympics (one day a year)?
no one is forcing people to
no one is forcing people to work for free in this hypothetical Olympic situation.
Not yet
In London, they forced the unemployed to "train" for theoretical jobs at the Olympics, or lose their benefits. I have no idea whether a similar scheme is warming the cockles of the current Olympians' hearts.
"Train" for possible jobs
or lose your benefits. Not the same as working for free.
You could rtead about it
The private company using the people said they were "unpaid." You can argue with them.
The way I read that article
these people may have "unpaid" for their Olympics work, but were still receiving unenployment benefits. So, yes, they were indeed getting paid.
That isn't how it works, Roadman
You may be right about "benefits" in Britain.
However, in the US, we receive unemployment INSURANCE. In other words, you pay into the system and you get that money back if you need it.
Thus, in our country and state, such a requirement would be equivalent to requiring a widow to work for the life insurance company where her husband had a policy in order to receive "benefits" that were already contracted for.
Next time you have a claim on your car insurance, maybe you should volunteer some free labor to them on a weekend to cover the "benefits"?
No Good Will Come Of This
This will probably go over as badly as the knit pillows for athletes did in London. The intent was to give athletes a gift made of wool entirely grown/produced in Britain. The Woolsack Team was given a stand inside the Park which was then given away to a paying sponsor.
It did work out in the end but it just brought more to light how the Olympics is about making money for themselves and making people volunteer for the 'privilege' of just being in their mighty presence.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156560/Olympic-cushions-handmad...
and
http://www.woolsack.org/news
Oh thank heavens
There really are just no opportunities to volunteer in the city. Bless you olympics
Something to do
While not getting paid for your real permanent job that isn't available during the circus?
How many permanent jobs will be furloughed or destroyed by this? Counts in the net number!
but that's ok Swirly
because you know.. when the city is shutdown for a month and people are on furlong, at least the volunteer opportunities will give folks who couldn't leave the city something to do. /s
but in actuality, I agree. I'd love to know how many jobs will be destroyed and how much of an offset they are taking in account for that.
Olympic finances need city pledge
And in even bigger news, now the Olympic organizers are starting to let the truth about funding out: "Olympic finances need city pledge". We all knew this was coming...
Don't worry guys
the Boston Olympic committee is developing some sort of plan that will totally mean we don't have to worry about it.
"To protect the city from loss, local Olympic organizers with Boston 2024 say they have already been working on an Olympic plan, to be finalized by mid-2017, that will reduce risk, indemnify the city, and convince Walsh that he can comfortably agree to be the backstop without significant risk to taxpayers."
Like they said, we should all be comfortable, don't need to worry about this little tiny guarantee.
Ill believe
I'll believe no risk when I see it.
Until then, I wonder if Boston2024 is interested in some ocean front property in Holyoke..
About that ocean front property in Holyoke...
For the record, if we had a viable intercity train system here (e.g., where the trip from Holyoke/Springfield took about an hour and ran 5 times a day), I'd be buying up canal-front and river front property in Holyoke like crazy.
Alas, much of the property there continues to go back to nature in a not-so-good way.
They must've promised a parade or ice cream party
To our dimwitted townie mayor.
Baby Huey saw something shiny and he likey, HE LIKEY!
Hey! Guess what?!
They said that about the Big Dig. This entire process is just indicative of a one percent who thinks once again they can steamroll the great unwashed into paying for their egotistical nonsense.
Why the f**k should we care about volunteer "jobs"?
.
Great line on a resume
I mean, identical to the matching line on every local teen's resume, but great somehow, no doubt, because the organizers of Boston2024 are probably looking out really hard for our youth's future
Thanks for reporting this!
I heard it on the radio during my commute in (had to rent a car because Orange Line) and it infuriated me.
The (temporary) jobs that the Olympics might create are one of the few benefits regular people might see from this boondoggle, so I would've expected that to be something these Boston 2024 assholes could speak plainly about. But then this Fish clown stands up to speak "specifically" about jobs, and proceeds to give an estimate that explicitly includes things that aren't jobs.
And 120,000 was just an estimate to begin with, so to then say that he has no idea how many of those "jobs" will be fucking jobs adds insult to injury. Where'd you get the number 120,000 then, asshole? If it is an estimate based on prior Olympics (which would be somewhat sensible) then you should be able to estimate the number of volunteers just as easily as the total number of people working for the Olympics that year.
These people are pants-on-head retarded, and the saddest part is, I still think there's a good chance they'll get their way. They're going to fuck Boston over, if they can, and the only certain thing is that they'll find ways to leave the city and its people with the bills.
Ableist slurs are tired and
Ableist slurs are tired and lazy.
Catch your breath by taking a ride on the euphemism treadmill
n/t
Well now we know where tumblr
Well now we know where tumblr stands on this issue.
Really hope
you're not planning to work at the Paralympics.
Don't you mean...
...volunteer at the Paralympics?
yep
Oh good. So we're now only
Oh good. So we're now only one step above Qatar using slave labor to build their World Cup stadiums.
All the money the Olympics bleeds out of
corporations, and they still plan on relying on volunteers to do much of the work. Somehting is seriously wrong with this picture.
Well,
They have to pay all the hacks that are hopping on the gravy train. Richard Davey (who just took $35k in "unused) vacation time (really, no vacations in 12 years Richie?)), the general counsel for the MBTA, even Walsh's Press Sec's girlfriend has a cushy job at Boston2024.
I guess there's no money left to pay those who will actually work during the Games.
really, no vacations in 12
Of course not. When someone is a high-level government hack (he was Sec. of Transportation), they don't take "vacations." They go on frequent "business trips," which are fully paid for, on the taxpayers' dime.
Want to go on vacation to Hawaii for two weeks? Nah, you're gonna go see how their, uh... public transportation system works. Meet with their transit chief and "discuss innovations" or something. And now the taxpayers get to fund your first-class airfare, your four-star hotel, your meals, and everything else.
Two or three extra
Coca-Cola or McDonalds spots would more than pay for the mimimum wage salaries of these jobs they're proposing to have done with free labor.
What were Fish and Davey wearing?
Were they in the full huckster uniforms or just the clown shoes? Where's the monorail going? Did Jack's Joke Shop do the catering?
I'm sure
Davey had a nice new custom fit suit on....purchased with his $35k in unused vacation time pay he just received.
He also fails to mention how
He also fails to mention how many of those "jobs" will be filled by people not from Boston. In any Olympics there are a significant number of people who move temporarily to that location to take the jobs. This is particularly true for jobs requiring specific higher level skills. So you can be sure that a significant number of those jobs will be filled by people who will move to Boston for a year or two and leave when the Olympics are over. Not much of a benefit to the locals who are generally left to take the lower level temporary jobs.
In addition, he doesn't mention all of the jobs that get destroyed or furloughed during this time. In Roxbury, for example, what happens to jobs at the golf course and park and the zoo while Franklin Park is being rebuilt for the equestrian events? London actually saw a net loss in tourism during the Olympics because regular tourists stayed away during the Olympics.
This Olympic scheme is a boondoggle, but I fear it is one that will succeed because it is supported by a powerful elite for whom it is a self-aggrandizing, money making opportunity.
Widett Circle
I can't wait until they try to count the 900 jobs they want to relocate to the Seaport district from Widett as new jobs in the Seaport district.
To all you naysayers, what's
To all you naysayers, what's the alternative? No Boston Olympics will add how many jobs?
That Depends
What are we going to spend the money - that will absolutely be coming out of our pockets - on, aside from the Olympics? Answer us that and maybe we can tell you.
(And if all you have to say is that no money will be coming out of our pockets, don't bother. Eventually, the citizens of The Commonwealth will be footing the bill. No matter where the funding comes from, that bill will be passed on to all of us, in some way or another, when push comes to shove.)
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
What evidence do you have to
What evidence do you have to support this position? Our governor was clear when he said that he won't raise taxes.
Every Olympic-hosting City In Recent Times?
I'd say that's fair.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
I'm not trying to
I'm not trying to argumentative but your answer didn't bring forward any facts. I really don't know if other cities have raised city taxes to fund an Olympics. Do you have a link to share that can shed light into city or state tax increases?
Past Is Prolouge
Perhaps you are too young / naïve or a shill for the Something Smells Fish-ies, but cost overruns have been a regular part of Olympic Games for the past 29 years. Cost Overruns and lies are also a strong element in public construction projects for Boston whether it is the Big Dig, the Andrew Square station reconstruction, the extension of Greenbush, and numerous other public projects, just wait for the GLX to explode in cost.
If you want facts, please let me drop whatever I am doing and op cit and ibid everything I can able too during my lunch break. Please.
However, My experience tells my old bones that Fish / Davey / Kayyem are lying through their teeth. That is good enough for me and for many, many others.
I don't know how Andrew
I don't know how Andrew Station was funded but I know that Ted Kennedy used his influence to have our big dig mostly paid through Federal Taxes. Our state did take out bonds and paid interest on them. If you believe the $22Billion figure, our state invested about $7B, or 1/3rd the cost. I agree it was a boondoggle too. Every one in office knew it at the time too.
Many elected officials from the Ted Kennedy/Tip O'Neill era are still in office.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig
Adam L
Let me ask you a question - serious, and a minimum of sarcasm intended. Where do you think aid via federal taxes comes from? Santa Claus?
It comes from the citizens of the United States, from out of their pockets. And I would find it even MORE objectionable to have the bill laid at the feet of the rest of the country for something that Boston alone signed on for (and from which it will be getting all of the supposed benefit).
Now, sensible people can argue about taxes and their uses. I'm not trying to throw some libertarian "no taxes, ever!!!" diatribe in your face. BUT, if the possibility exists in your mind that The Fed may be footing a bill or two here, how can you be sure enough that Bostonians, and citizens of The Commonwealth, won't be asked to pony up? At the very least, we'll be digging into our pockets for the portion of the federal bill that will be our share.
I'm just coming at this from a common sense point of view, I believe. Cost overruns are endemic both in this state and in the Olympics themselves. Given past history, I don't see a good reason to believe that combining these forces will result in us not being screwed.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Federal taxes come from about
Federal taxes come from about 60% of the US population with half of all federal tax coming from the top 10% earners. I bet these folks are not the ones that would be interested in the temporary jobs. Keeing the Olympics out of Boston would hurt the under and unemployed. There's no denying that a temporary pay check is better than no paycheck.
So in essence you're saying that the Olympics has no place in the United States. I can understand and accept that point of view, however it's the first time it's been raised in Uhub. Athletic competition is not a necessity, I get that.
I too agree about cost overruns. I blame the politicans that knowingly lie to the public about the true cost (thinking big dig) knowing they can go back to the till for more.
One Thing
You've been civil in this conversation. I appreciate that. However, I feel a need to make clear my stance on something you mentioned in your reply.
That isn't quite how I feel.
I disfavor other people, outside of the city/state hosting the Olympics, paying for them. If the site pays for them themselves, that's their business and more power to them.
However, while I enjoy the Olympic spectacle, and have been a fan of the games for as long as I've been aware of them - in an aesthetic sense - that doesn't mean I am in favor of the Olympics in Boston, even if Boston alone pays for them. I believe the great majority of Bostonians - and other residents of Massachusetts - will not profit from this, in the long run, and will instead be worse off for the experience overall, notwithstanding your fair argument that a paycheck is better than no paycheck (although, as others have pointed out here, some jobs will be lost, as well.)
Again, thanks for the civil discourse.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Elected Officials still in office?
Moakley? dead.
Conte? dead.
Early? dead.
Boland? dead.
Studds? dead.
Mavroules? dead.
Frank? retired and living in Maine.
Donnelly? retired
Atkins? status unknown, probably retired.
Flynn? writes the occasional column for the Herald when not doting on his grandkids.
Dukakis? went from hero to goat, teaches even though he could be retired.
Kerry- cares more about the Ukraine than the T since he got that State Department job.
Markey- okay, you've got 1 for 13, 1 for 15 if you actually include Tip and Ted.
If were gonna go into debt
for something, how about fixing the MBTA?
How many temporary construction jobs will that make on top of fixing the huge losses in productivity and time it's been causing the last 5 years?
How many millions and possibly a billion did businesses in the metro area lose because the MBTA couldn't operate normally this last month?
How about we spend money on investments that strengthens our economy and ability to get people to work, instead of forcing them and businesses to sit idle and plan around the disaster of getting their workers into Boston,
Seems like a better, more fair use of funds to me than giving a handout to the IOC, or tax breaks to large mega corps that promptly move out of state after they banked it like Fidelity did.
I think our new governor is
I think our new governor is taking steps to fix this piece of crap.
It may be time to review the people our ex governor put into positions of authority. Have you all seen this article?
http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/12/22/mbta-pension-fund-had-mor...
Maybe the best way to fix it is to clean house and re-prioritize how funds are spent. The answer isn't to always throw money at problems.
Not always
In this case it IS THE ANSWER as the funding IS THE PROBLEM.
Evidence please. Funding the
Evidence please. Funding the MBTA is the problem???
NOT funding the MBTA
IS THE PROBLEM.
Evidence? Did you just pull your head out of a snow hole? $1 billion a year siphoned off. Ancient equipment breaking down. Ancient trackage breaking down.
You obviously don't ride the T, so you don't give a shit. Never mind that the lack of dependable transit will drive the regional engine of economic activity into the ground and take the entire state - and, possibly, your job and sacred car with it.
Go read all the threads on this. PLENTY of citations and evidence in there, and more than would be worth citing in an extremely long list on a thread.
Better yet, move to Wisconsin or Kansas where you can enjoy the shithole effect of massively defunding public services - and driving away employment.
I'm trying to be civil but
I'm trying to be civil but when you start by berating me I get upset.
You don't know me or my life situation.
Whoa! Citation
Go read their P&L - I don't think you'll find that any of what you say is true.
Also - a knowledgeable person said the Big Dig debt handed to the T wasn't roadway debt - it was for the transit related debt we traded to get funding for the roadway/tunnel portion of the big dig - so perhaps not what they wanted to spend it on - but not exactly unrelated to the T's core mission if this is true.
Do you have a link to it?
I would actually be interested in reviewing it.
Here's the post
Go to this link - scroll down about 1/3 of the page and there is a comment in an exchange between me and CKD - click on the "Source" link - and it downloads a spreadsheet with the T's P&L back to 1991. Sorry - I'm not technically savvy enough to figure out how to link directly to this.
http://www.universalhub.com/2015/sorry-charlie-mbta-general-manager-quits
You may want to look at the T's P&L
Used to agree with you until I looked at the numbers and my jaw dropped. Massive funding increases over the last 15 years and they STILL can't make ends meet because every extra dollar goes to wages/bennies/payroll taxes - and very little to capital. Based on this and the headcount quoted by Bev Scott - it' appears MBTA workers make almost 30% more than City of Boston personnel on average in total comp ($115k v. $90k) - and FYI folks - that's not just salary - that's the cost of keeping the average person on the payroll - including pensions, wages, fringes and payroll taxes.
Because every extra dollar
goes to debt service. FIFY
And please lose the "government workers deserve to earn no more than poverty level wages" bit - it's getting very old.
You need to stop reading headlines
And dig into the numbers - since forward funding in 2001 to the 2015 budget - do the math:
Revenues increased from $1.082 billion to to $1.943 billion
Operating expenses (mostly compensation of some kind -direct and indirect for contracted services) have increased from $737 million to $1.509 billion (about 75% of the total).
Debt service has increased from $291 million to $424 million. (and for all the Big Dig obsessed - apparently about 1/3 of that - or 7-8% of the total budget is Big Dig related (and have heard even that was not road/tunnel debt - but for mandated transit projects)
What was your point again?
And as for poverty wages - divide the $700 million plus in wages, fringes and payroll taxes by the 6530 headcount someone quoted last week and you get $115,000 PER EMPLOYEE. Almost 30% above the average pay for city of Boston. That's a LONG way from poverty. Hell - that's probably a long way from reasonable for all but the execs, cops and drivers.
The T's condition has almost nothing to do with debt (hell - it's a capital intensive business, they SHOULD have a lot of debt on their books, I'd be surprised if they didn't).
Stop!
Confusing everyone with facts. It's much easier to scream about how Charlie Baker wants to privatize the T and this is all part of his master plan. Saddle it with enormous dept (paying for a democrat-supported project that wasn't properly funded), wait 20 years, get elected governor, cut $14 million in funding (.1% of operating budget), then pray for record-breaking snowfall over a month period.
It's all his fault the T is mess!
It's not about jobs, but cost
There would be almost no long term jobs created by these Olympics, just constructions jobs (which are nice and important, yes), hospitality jobs and short term jobs for the 2-3 weeks of the Olympics. Unless you really think we the tax payers aren't going to be paying $1B+ at the end of the day, it's a wasteful way to create jobs.
For example, spending $1B to hire people to spend the next 10 years fixing the T infrastructure so it can withstand heavy winters might be a better way to generate jobs. Or fixing bridges. Or hiring more staff for the BPS. Etc... There are countless ways to make jobs with this same amount of money.
what part of temporary
what part of temporary jobs did you not read and understand?
What good are these "jobs" if the all vanish after the event ends. That's not sustainability.
The time and effort used by politicians currently to try to force this boondoggle down our throats could be used instead to attract business that will provide [em] full time, year round [/em] employment.
And for the sheer fact that Boston2024 won't even say if these jobs will be paid (as its hinted most will be volunteer). How good is this? it's not.. I think people want to be paid for their work.
Invest time and effort into
Invest time and effort into better transportation system (regional and metro) better roadways (for cars and bikes and pedestrians) and better access to our natural resources - such as Long Island (why is that off limits to residents?) and of course better schools. This would create jobs both in the short and long term and give businesses and people a reason to stay. And it will probably cost about the same as the Olympics or should it be called Olympocalypse .
Most of the jobs will go to
Most of the jobs will go to city of boston hacks.
Self-Promotion
The Herald (from whom I sometimes receive a check) has had a few pieces coming down on the side of NO to Boston 2024. Today, Jennifer Braceras talks about the downside...
Braceras
... and yours truly had an op-ed on the subject a couple of weeks back.
Sullivan
Unfortunately, mine is now over two weeks old and only fully available if you pay for it. You can read the opening paragraph, though (and, if you're nice, maybe I'll send you a copy via e-mail upon request.)
The point here, aside from self-aggrandizement, is that you should encourage those media outlets willing to talk about this as a sham. Leave a comment of praise, write a letter to the editor, or otherwise make your opinion known in other ways than just on U-Hub.
(I say "just" meaning no disrespect to Adam, of course, but only because the more places your voices are heard, the better.)
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
I will not stand for anything
I will not stand for anything to change in Boston. We blocked the Worlds Fair years ago, and the Centennial thanks to the good open minded folks of Southie. Lets build walls or whatever it takes to keep out the Olympics and all those foreigners from coming here.
Lets keep Boston static and unchanged so our grand kiddies can enjoy exactly the same things as we do, nothing new and scary.
Way to miss the point
The reasons people don't want an Olympics is that we don't want to pay for our lives to be disrupted by a corporate circus that will provide little or no permanent improvement to our city and quality of life.
Expanding and improving and rescuing our transit system would change things, but very welcome change.
Something useful on boston.com
Amazingly that boston.com has someting useful http://goo.gl/gT0FvS
Thanks Adam
I think we are now getting back to normalcy that we are looking at the Olympics again. I'm surprised that you missed the Globe article the other day on cost guarantees.
Looking forward to the day when delays on the T are noteworthy again due to their relative infrequency.
As to the subject at hand, paid jobs need a funding source. Just sayin'.
MBTA
PLEASE can we focus all energy on how to fix / improve the MBTA before we waste time talking about Olympics that would be a disaster given our current traffic situation!
We could create so many jobs if we raised the gas tax to pay for transit and road / bridge / traffic related projects! Otherwise your commute is going to be increased year after year and we'll need to switch to a larger night shift workforce......or some other bad option.
Instead of complaining about
Instead of complaining about the Olympics, why are we not focusing on how to get onto this public money gravy train that's being steamrolled through the city? From what should be apparent, they're going to do their absolute best to make it happen and you can either stand in the way and bet bulldozed over or find a way to make it pay you off as well.
Bullshit
This is exactly the attitude they need - "be sheep, we know what's best, why not get a piece of the pie?" - that enables them to keep rein on the suckers year after year after year. It's the "You'd better get on board with this career politician, because he knows how to take care of his people! If you try to elect that other guy, you're throwing your vote away!" argument.
The shame of it is, the argument only becomes valid when enough suckers buy into it. If you can't convince enough suckers, it falls apart.
Me? I'd rather take a chance at being bulldozed than give in to what I know is bullshit and have to live the rest of my life knowing for sure I was a sucker.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
I wonder if the Herald has the resources....
... to fund and carry out a series that focused on ordinary folks in previous (and upcoming Rio) Summer Olympics -- and what they got (or suffered from) when the Olympics came to their towns? I think it safe to assume that no such survey is likely to be forthcoming from the Olympic Glop.
You know how this is going to
You know how this is going to end though. Assuming enough bribery, Boston will get chosen, everyone will stand up there and claim no public funds will be spent and about 6 months before the opening ceremonies when nothing is done, everything is behind schedule, over budget or still in litigation there will then be a national emergency where the pride of Boston/MA/USA is now at stake in getting the Olympics up and running, budgets and no-public-money be damned.
Well, Yeah...
That's why it has to be stopped NOW.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
This all sounds
Fishy.