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Permanent downtown farmers' market set to open in July

The Boston Public Market, which plans to open in July in the garage/building that houses the Haymarket T stop and RMV office today announced its first set of vendors, who will sell locally grown food, from vegetables to cheese and fish.

The Boston Public Market will feature a diverse offering of programs designed to highlight regional culinary traditions and local food production, as well as inspire healthy eating and creative cooking among families and individuals. The Trustees of Reservations is the lead programming partner and will manage and staff a teaching kitchen in the heart of the market, working with other non-profit organizations and for-profit partners to offer exciting classes, demonstrations, and other programs.

Via Andrew Farnitano.

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overpriced artisan cheeses and sandwiches as well as stone ground chocolate, just to name a few of the prospective products to be sold at this market, and will "inspire healthy eating and creative cooking among families and individuals." Simplistic much?

Hey, I get it. Purchasing foo foo stuff is very appealing to many. I am guilty. I have been to a handful of local Farmers Markets (Needham, Dedham, Roslindale, and Natick (I love the bagels from Maine vendor) and may find something to buy but usually I do not. I generally find them filled with expensive nick knack crap that I don't really need or want, way over priced veggies, meat and food stuffs ($10 bucks for three heads of garlic, anyone?, anyone?) and the ever present candles and soap made out of beeswax.

I am not completely sold that "organic" anything is better for my long term longevity and I, personally, don't desire cheese (and I love cheese) that three hours ago was still milk in a cow. But if you do, more power to you!

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I agree. $3 for a bunch of carrots is a bit much. I wonder who the farmers markets are geared to. If a family is on a tight food budget, farmers markets are a rip off.

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Doesn't help the middle class much, but at Boston farmer's markets, an EBT card gets you 50% off your purchase.

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well a lot of people around here spend 20,000 or more on a car when a cheaper one could just as easily get you to work, and a turd in my building has a Harley (30,000 and up) so it seems like some people like to spend more money on transportation than they need because it pleases them, others on food for the same reason. Why does that bother you so much?

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Actually what I want to know is why stuff at farmers market is more expensive than the supermarkets.

I know Market Basket during the summer gets produce from all over New England, so it's local per-say. And the prices reflect that (aka cheap).

But if I go to a farmers market, I will pay 50-75% for the same produce. Maybe not the same farm, but still 'locally sourced' produce.

My question.. and this always perplexes me. Roma Tomatoes at Market Basket (non organic ones) are currently 99 cents a lb. Organic ones are 2.99 (I think). That 99 cent tomato says "Product of Mexico" on it. So that tomato has to come from mexico by truck to Market Basket's DC in Tewksbury.. that costs money in transportation, which is built into the cost.

But if I buy a roma tomato at a farmers market at Copley from a farm, say in Western Mass, it'll cost 3.99 or higher. Sure its organic too, but still more expensive than the organic ones at Market Basket.

So my question is.. why is it that 'locally sourced' produce costs more at a farmer's market, yet same produce is cheaper at Market Basket? And why do the tomatoes from Mexico cost less than tomatoes grown in MA, even though they have to travel much further? You'd think it would be the reverse, cheaper locally, more expensive if its trucked in from far away.

Sure one could chock it up to farming techniques, where the tomatoes in mexico are mass produced and transported so their cost per item is cheaper. But to me, still doesn't make sense. So either that Mexican tomato's actual cost of production is far less than 99 cents a lb or someone at a Farmers Market is jacking up the prices 'because they can' and people will buy it.

I honestly think its the latter. Since people are willing to pay more, they charge more because "they can"

I dunno. Price has always been a main reason why I don't bother with farmer's markets.. I'm sorry but a 400% markup on something isn't exactly inviting to shop there. I know farmers need to support themselves, but at what dollar amount do you realize you're hurting yourself by over charging for product vs making a profit?

On a side note, makes me wonder how well the produce part will sell at this market, considering the Haymarket Pushcarts are next door on the weekends. Sure the quality is different, but unless a local tells you that what the Haymarket Pushcarts are really about (aka yesterday's produce before it rots), most will say "gee why did I even bother going inside when the produce outside is cheaper!".. of course this is the thought until they get home and it rots two days later!)

PS - I'm not trying to troll. I'm genuinely interested to know why Farmers Markets are more expensive.. because logically it just doesn't make sense (to me, at least)

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So either that Mexican tomato's actual cost of production is far less than 99 cents a lb or someone at a Farmers Market is jacking up the prices 'because they can' and people will buy it.

Probably both. A certain segment of the population has gotten the idea that they must shop at farmers' markets because the food is supposedly healthier (possible) or better tasting (probable, if you're actually buying locally grown, ripe produce).

This has inflated demand to the point where sellers can charge a premium simply by virtue of being located at a farmers' market, and I have even heard (unsupported anecdote to follow) that regular commercial produce distributors are now selling their goods at farmers' markets while pretending to be local growers. ("Oh, yeah, these veggies are from my, uh, farm. It's two towns over.")

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Part of my motivation is not paying slave labor. The people who pick in Mexico and on large farms in the south and west make barely any more per unit than I did thirty-five years ago.

It was totally shitty work then, and I wasn't trapped in it.

Local land and labor are more expensive. I also find that I eat better when I have the kind of seasonal variety that comes with local truck produce. I have a choice, and I choose. The money I spend locally stays in the local economy as well.

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cell phone you're using?

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I do, however, have a lot of empathy for people who do this kind of shit work, having done it myself and seen my elders suffer from their youthful work.

Sorry if that doesn't mesh with your notions of extreme vows of "you can't do ANYTHING unless you do EVERYTHING" or "everybody must conform to all-or-nothing consumption" leveling mechanisms.

Modern life means picking your poisons and battles. I make no claim to moral purity, frack you very much.

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Part of my motivation is not paying slave labor.

Did I say that? No, you did. Nice edit, BTW.

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Really.

Your comments are on the intellectual level of "you can't eat anything but a Vegan diet if you refuse to take Uber!!!"

Yeah. That makes as much sense as "you can't use a cel phone if you buy food that doesn't exploit workers".

You've done that shit work and have your reasons.

I've done this shit work, and have my reasons.

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And again, speed editing does not alter that fact that you do not know if I take Uber or not, you're making an embarrassing assumption based on my seeming to embarrass you on your now deleted statement.

And you're the one who brought Uber into it, not me. Bad day at what I assume to be the world's most unsupervised position at work?

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Your "all or nothing" attitude is ridiculous. I need not say more.

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No more so than the fact that I never said "all or nothing". I just asked if your cell phone was locally sourced. Speed editing and putting words in my mouth seems to say more about you than me, n'est–ce pas?

And we all know you "need" to say more. Much more. Good day to you.

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I just asked if your cell phone was locally sourced.

Indeed you did. So what's the relevance?

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Of everything and everyone!

That's the relevance! All or nothing! Can't be a grownup - must be controlled or controlling.

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That's exactly what the person you're attacking is NOT doing. No one's buying it.

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Part of my motivation is not paying slave labor.

https://www.google.com/#q=foxconn+slave+labor

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I don't have any iThangs.

Here's the punchline: my Motorola phone was actually made in the good 'ol US of A ... or , if you rather, the Republic of Texas.

Yeeehawww!

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Geez, Swirly, you're not even trying.

1) Foxconn manufactures components for virtually all smartphone vendors.

2) The Texas plant you cited only performed "final assembly" per the article, i.e., the components were fabricated overseas (probably at Foxconn).

3) The article notes at the very top that the plant in question closed last year. So your current phone may have been assembled in the US but your next one probably won't be.

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"No more so than the fact that I never said "all or nothing". I just asked if your cell phone was locally sourced."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disingenuous

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Bad day at what I assume to be the world's most unsupervised position at work?

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better tasting (probable, if you're actually buying locally grown, ripe produce).

Maybe Boston has some special rules that are different from the rest of the commonwealth, but what I've seen in Western MA is that you don't get in a market unless you're selling what you produce.

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Actually what I want to know is why stuff at farmers market is more expensive than the supermarkets.

Well, first of all, it isn't always, but possibly it is in Boston. I definitely see higher prices at the markets in Boston than I do when the same farms are selling at markets outside the city. Before you wax indignant about that, consider that the farmer needs to travel much farther, pay more in market fees, spend more time, go through many more hassles and put up with much more bullshit to sell in Boston. Why would you do it if there wasn't something extra in it for you? I sure wouldn't.

More generally, your theoretical Mexican tomato is Roundup-ready, built to travel, protected with pesticides, grown in sketchy conditions and harvested green by workers being paid a pittance. All that saves a lot of money.

If it doesn't seem worth it to you, you might want to consider the current drought situation in California. I believe that the days of the 3000-mile tomato are limited and that they'll come to an end in our lifetime. If you can no longer count on cheap vegetables from Mexico and California, what will you do? Now is the time to be supporting food production close to home, not down the road, when it will be too late.

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I definitely see higher prices at the markets in Boston than I do when the same farms are selling at markets outside the city.

Not sure where you are shopping but I see the exact opposite. The *only* time I see a Farmers Market cheaper than the supermarket is when I'm near my folks in rural NH. And that's only because the stand is usually alongside the road where the farm is, so no need to transport goods.

I'm sorry its very hard to buy over priced 'locally sourced' produce at exorbitant prices. I'm sorry my checkbook balance means far more to me than 'buying local'. Sure I support when I can, but at some point cost really comes into a factor.

What will I do when it dries out? Probably will cross that bridge when it comes, if it comes at all. And honestly, supply and demand will determine what happens. There's always going to be a demand, sure we'll probably pay more, but it's not like I am going to stop being able to buy product in January that isn't grown locally.

I'm sorry I'm not that forward thinking when it comes to this stuff. I know that's not what you want to hear, but I live in today, not tomorrow. Sorry, it's just who I am. I can't be bothered. Sure, you may think its bad on my part, but it's my choice to do so.

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Not sure where you are shopping but I see the exact opposite. The *only* time I see a Farmers Market cheaper than the supermarket is when I'm near my folks in rural NH.

...yes, that's more or less what I said. "I definitely see higher prices at the markets in Boston than I do when the same farms are selling at markets outside the city." Mind you, this isn't anything scientific, just what I've noticed on the two or three occasions when I saw the same farm selling in both places. What you're talking about is actually an apples to oranges comparison, for what it's worth.

I'm sorry its very hard to buy over priced 'locally sourced' produce at exorbitant prices. I'm sorry my checkbook balance means far more to me than 'buying local'. Sure I support when I can, but at some point cost really comes into a factor.

Well, you feel free to construct your own narrative and humpty-dumpty your own definition of "exorbitant", although it would better if you could refrain from the stupid "I'm sorry" faux-apology. If you feel it is "exorbitant", then it is. I get the feeling that your data points are substantially filtered through preconceptions, but I'm not arguing with you. I'm merely pointing out that "cost" is going to change.

What will I do when it dries out? Probably will cross that bridge when it comes, if it comes at all.

Are you willing to consider the possibility that by the time reality slaps you in the face, it will be too late to "cross that bridge"? If you think prices are "exorbitant" now, what's going to change to make you suddenly available to afford what they'll be in the future? Prices across the board will go up, not down.

And honestly, supply and demand will determine what happens. There's always going to be a demand, sure we'll probably pay more, but it's not like I am going to stop being able to buy product in January that isn't grown locally.

This is a completely baseless assertion, based on the hubris of a few generations of atypical prosperity. Look at history. "There's always going to be a demand", sure, but what makes you think that you will be in a position to do any demanding? Are you going to stomp your feet like a toddler and yell "I DEMAND"? If, as you insist, your "checkbook" doesn't allow you to buy locally-grown produce now, you're going to be in no position to demand anything down the road.

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You're just trying to pick a fight, so I'm done. Not feeding into your need to argue and belittle people on here today.

Thanks for playing. *walks away*

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You're just trying to pick a fight

No, I'm really not. Not by any reasonable definition. I've agreed with you on some points, and on other points I've responded to your broad-based assertions with data. I've also supported your choice to do something that doesn't make sense to me personally. Providing data and explaining why I'm making different choices is not "trying to pick a fight".

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Tomatoes are best when you've grown your own. It doesn't take a lot of space and you can freeze them.
I've one bag of tomatoe's left from last summer which I am saving.

Nothing like the taste of my own tomatoe's when there's a blizzard outside. That pot of sauce I made on one of our many snowy days this winter tasted like summer.

Garlic also, so easy to grow. Plant in September, harvest in June. All you need is a head of garlic which will multiply by however many cloves the head contains.

That is why I find Farmers Markets so kitchy. $10 for garlic?? Its got to be one of the cheapest and easiest things to grow.

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$10 for a head of garlic? I've never seen prices anywhere near that high. $1-$2 is reasonable depending on the garlic, $10 a pound for good seed garlic is a reasonable price, and for most people, that $10 will get them all the garlic they'd ever use. You pay less in the supermarket for garlic, but then, most supermarket garlic won't grow in a cold climate like this.

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I've used regular store bought garlic to grow. Comes up fine. I didn't get any in this past fall though and I've regretted it many times.

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I could give you some of mine! It spreads like crazy though the cloves are smaller. But not to digress--couldn't you just plant some now? I know the fall is ideal but would it really not catch up by July?

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"regular store bought garlic" comes from many places, and you will never know what strain you've got, so you're rolling the dice. I think it's worth the trouble to get something that will overwinter rather than spending the money and the time on a dice roll.

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also not trolling, but why don't you ask a farmer next time you're at a farmer's market? I'd rather spend my money on smaller family farms than huge grocery stores. But if you're looking for cheap produce, try Super 88 in Malden. I shop there to supplement my Whole Foods & FM runs because I usually can't handle the crowds at Chelsea Market Basket

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I chalk it up to a mix of all the things everyone just said. But I think the quality of the soil and sun is the biggest factor. There's a reason Mass isn't a big agricultural state. Our ground is full of tons of boulders and rocks and not all that naturally fertile. The Pilgrims found it tough going.

Also, most carbon emissions for produce, which I also equate with cost, are mostly fertilizer, pesticide, and fuel for tractors. The transportation is an extremely small component of the carbon footprint of our produce. Thus, in the view of carbon reduction, "food should be grown where it grows best". That doesn't mean that local food doesn't taste better though, as you get varieties that are not just designed for thousands of miles of travel.

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Cybah, I haven't had coffee yet, and this is a complicated issue, so later today I will try to find for you a link that explains this better than I can right now

Short, incomplete answer:
--Because of a complicated system of agricultural and water subsidies, the price you pay in a grocery store for US farmed fresh produce rarely covers the cost of producing it. We artificially deflate the price of many US farm products through a system of compensated price fixing or direct subsidies-- corn and milk are the two that get the most press when occasionally a story arises, but it affects a lot more than that.
--Over the years, these legal price manipulations have been influenced by industrial level agricultural interests (ADM, Smithfield) to their greater benefit. Industrial farms can sell very cheaply.
--On a farm smaller than an industrial set-up, these subsidies aren't enough to raise anyone much above poverty level, if that. However, because the subsidy guarantees "x" amount of income on some portion of a farmer's property, the farmer can use that income guarantee in order to get loans/credit. Even though the subsidy might not cover production, it can be the only guaranteed income a farmer has. Banks like a guarantee. So farmers are drawn to devote at least part of their property to crops with the best guarantees. The best guarantees tend to be sturdy crops, like wheat or soybeans, rather than fragile or drought vulnerable crops, like squash. For a small farm to devote substantial property to the stuff we like in farmer's markets, he's taking a financial risk.
(Please note that I am so grossly oversimplifying this, this is not as linear as I'm making it seem)
--Property & labor are much cheaper in a lot of Latin America, and we have very favorable trade laws & tariff structures with many LA countries. We also have over 100 years of byzantine legal protections and regulations favorable to specific US companies that import, and occasionally build their own plantations, in some Latin American countries. Think United Fruit.

We are a country largely populated by the descendents of people who fled poverty and starvation. Furthermore, our shared culture romanticizes farming. So we want "small family farms" to exist but we're not willing to pay higher prices so they can. Subsidizing food production is one of the few winning points on the right and the left.

The price you pay at a farmer's market is usually closer to the actual cost of growing that tomato then what you pay in Market Basket.

I love fresh produce, and am happy to pay extra at a shop or a farmer's market to have some things fresh picked (strawberries, tomatoes, or Silver Queen corn and peaches when I'm in the south). And, I guess in typing that, there are certain types of produce I want that are only available seasonally & in small outlets.

Having said all that, I think 90% of organic produce isn't worth it, but that's a different topic for a different day.

Disclosure: My dad has been a farmer in Va. since the mid 1970s. I help with his taxes each year. And about 1/3 or his crops are organic.

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Thank you, I appreciate the reply with information.

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Cybah, I was hoping to find a decent article or USDA report for you, but my search is getting bogged down in the ocean of material published by lobbying firms-- no kidding, I had no idea how difficult finding just a textbookishly dull-but-informative link for you would be.

So this is less than ideal, but here is a NatGeo article that briefly touches on some of the issues I mentioned, though it's not really what the article is about. It mentions something, though, that has become a big issue for my dad and his neighbors: increasing property values. Much of Dad's farm is waterfront, on a tributary near the Chesapeake Bay. It is worth below $10,000 an acre as farm land, but well over $100,000 if he let it be developed for housing. His bank would prefer that he sell off some of his best farming land rather than continue to farm it. Converting farmland is not cheap or easy, but some day he or my brother may be forced to do it.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/09/140919-aging-american-fa...

This contains a lot of info-- too much, really-- but here is the most recent USDA census of US farms. If you want to get an idea of how much local small farms earn, and how much all farms get in subsidies, this gives you a ballpark. Some interesting odds & ends-- amazing how much some farms depend on Halloween corn mazes & similar to just break even--
http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2012/Full_Report/Volume_1,_Cha...

I haven't given up on finding a good overview of the economics of US farming, but it may take a while. Meanwhile, I always recommend Wendell Berry for his trenchant criticism of American farming; he's one of those writers my conservative dad & lefty me like to read.

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Such a dilemma. Are there local preservation groups that can help get the land into a farm trust or something?

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...among others. For something local, Google "conservation easement". Here in Western MA, we have the Franklin Land Trust (http://www.franklinlandtrust.org/) which preserves "farms, fields and forests" and is a great organization.

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They did put 30 acres into a conservation easement, and sold another bit to a local university which maintains it as a bald eagle reserve. And fortunately my brother has been very careful/smart/lucky about avoiding the absolutely crushing debt that is almost normal for a family farm now. But every year is a dice roll. The farm cannot function without annual loans, and the banks know how valuable that land could be if they get it. But my siblings and I have decided that if we ever must do it, we would prefer to let as much of it as we could spare go to a conservation trust. The rest would need to be sold to clear debts, and we probably wouldn't be able to avoid handing some of it over to be developed.

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1) The presence of the Haymarket pushcarts next door is a good thing: it gives shoppers different options in the same place at different prices. Also, the Haymarket pushcarts are going to have some things the market won't, because the market is locally grown/made and Haymarket is not so limited: if you like baked fish with lemon, you can buy fish from Gloucester at the market, but you're not going to find Mass.-grown lemons in the market. Go to the Haymarket vendors.

2) People will buy some things from the market and some things they won't, and that's OK. Thomas Keller's French Laundry restaurant in California grows its own organic vegetables, but the same restaurant also uses frozen shredded potatoes from the supermarket because Keller says he can't tell the difference from what he grows himself.

3) It's not surprising to me that Market Basket can buy locally grown produce wholesale and bring it to consumers for less than it costs for the farmers to bring it to a market themselves. They're very smart and they have efficiencies of scale that the farmers don't have. You might find some more variety of fresh local produce at the farmers market -- particularly of things grown in small quantities -- but if you find it more convenient to do your shopping once at Market Basket then more power to you.

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Market Basket is a much more efficient commodity-delivery system than a farmers' market is. A farmer selling into the Market Basket distribution chain does so in much greater quantities than the individual sales at a farmers' market, and once the food is sold that's it - any unsold food is MB's problem, not the farmer's. In addition, s/he spends a lot less time and labor doing that distribution by loading up a truck and delivering it to Tewksbury or wherever than by standing on City Hall Plaza all day. That's time and labor that can be put back into, you know, farming, as opposed to chatting up customers and trying to keep your produce from wilting in the July sun.

I'm a devotee of both the Chelsea Market Basket and the Downtown farmers' market, so I see the value to both. I would say that 80% of the reason I shop at the farmers' market is because they have a quality and variety I can't get anywhere else - yes, even at my beloved MB. The other 20% are for the feelgood reasons others have discussed here: maybe it's more ecologically sustainable (although I don't exclusively buy organic, and with a less-efficient distribution chain the effect on GHGs is harder to figure out); I get to "eat with the seasons," which is just fun for a cooking geek like me; I learn about where the food comes from and the people that produce it, which is fun for a geek-geek like me; and, in general, I get to burnish my yuppie / progressive cred.

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Even if tomatoes at Farmers Markets are twice the price they are totally worth it. You'd have to pay me to eat the 99 cent Mexican tomatoes and thats saying a lot because good tomatoes in the summer are my favorite food in the world.

Those Mexican tomatoes are cheap to ship because they are hard as a rock. A good local tomato is juicy and delicate and has to be handled with care.

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I am not completely sold that "organic" anything is better for my long term longevity

Well, this really comes down to being "sold" on pesticide risk. There are some foods that pose no risk when not organic, such as avocados or sweet corn, but it's probably best for your long term longevity to lean organic with apples and potatoes.

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I don't see it as being about me. Residues in produce aren't the major human exposure.

I see it as reducing the use of pesticides overall, and the exposures to workers and neighbors.

My parents, working the produce fields as children (alongside their parents) after WWII, were sprayed in the fields with some pretty nasty "green revolution" things.
My mother died of autoimmune disease, and her sister and brother are managing their autoimmune issues - for now.

Field owners have, after much hard won awareness and intervention by authorities, started protecting their workers better, but there are still overspray and runoff impacts on water supplies to contend with.

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About how it could lead to reduced pesticide use overall.

I've started buying organic cotton goods when possible because growing the non-organic version has really poisoned the land (and is responsible for arsenic getting into rice, as many former cotton fields have been turned into rice paddies).

Also, fwiw, vegetables and fruits do start losing nutrients after they're picked (this has been proven in studies). So you are getting much more healthful produce if you buy & consume the same day.

I try to follow the "Dirty Dozen" for organic vs. not, and support local growers when it isn't TOO expensive to do so. I will splurge on fruit, however, because the supermarket versions never taste as good!

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Farmers have a few options for "organic" fertilizers. The effective organic ones are not necessarily any safer than synthesized fertilizers. Rotenine, for example, has been tied to fish kills. Pyrethrine, which was popular on organic farms a while ago & is derived from chrysanthemums or daisies, was found to be killing barn cats and high exposure in humans causes chronic nerve damage.

I don't want to seem unabashadly anti-organic. Some organic farming practices are a great improvement over the standard practices, and reduce run-off, soil loss, soil deadening, and many other problems. But organic practices are not magic. With a few exceptions worth heeding, organic produce itself is no healthier than standard produce. To me, focusing on low-impact farming practices is more important than on questionably "natural" practices. And, of course, finding healthy, safe food is the goal. Sometimes organic labelling is helpful in that, sometimes it isn't.

Freshness always makes a difference. That is where local farms pretty much always have an advantage.

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I simply don't pay anymore for groceries than I have to, so these ornamental farmer's markets are out of the question for me. On Moody St. here in Waltham, we have two Indian markets that sell incredibly reasonable produce, i.e. broccoli at 99 cents a pound, or a pack of five garlic bulbs for 99 cents as well. There's also a Hannaford downtown and a Market Basket up near 128.

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Organic... grown with minimal pesticides... you can't figure out how that might be beneficial to your health? Educate youreslf -- start with Google.

I love trying new cheeses and supporting local farmers. You don't and that's great for you.

What isn't over-priced in the city of Boston? Duh, it's a city! Where do you buy lunch while on a quick lunch break? Enlighten everyone, please.

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This type of thing is a better investment in our city than the Olympics, methinks.

World-class cities may host the games, but world-class cities also have fine central markets with local vendors and attract both city dwellers and tourists alike.

Win, win.

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I lived in Melbourne for a couple of years - which, granted, has a much more temperate climate - and they have several year-round farmers' markets. I went to the Queen Victoria Markets several times a week to get produce and meat, all from local farms; and it was all notably cheaper than what I could get at the grocery store, and also much higher quality. If we could make this a real, sustainable service for the city - not just for hipsters who want to pay $10 for a chocolate bar - then I think that would be a firm step in the right direction. Here's hoping.

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It will be great to have a central market in Boston. Most great cities have these. It's great that we finally caught up to Cleveland. Central markets can be wonderful public spaces.

It would be nice though to have a middle ground between the soon to rot wholesale leftovers at Haymarket and the most expensive "artisan" version of everything that this new market seems poised to bring.

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It's called Stop & Shop.

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Where is this "downtown" Stop-n-Shop?

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a market planned for somewhere in this neck of the woods? But I may be misremembering. But there will be the Roche Brothers at DTX, not too far away.

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I have often heard haymarket vendors not-so-politely telling people that if they don't like his prices to go to Stop & Shop and see how much it costs there.

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it's like some commenters here have never heard of the concept of economies of scale.

..or are just deliberately obtuse and dead-set on hatin' all over local products.

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buying from people who actually know who Ani DiFranco is as opposed to those Sinatra lovers on the street. I mean buying food on a street? There might be dirt on those veggies!

Also, will this new market allow immigrants to pick all of the bruised produce left on the ground the way the push cart vendors do? Or will the new place insist on a minimum of a liberal arts degree before you can go through their refuse?

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But no public universities.

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It always amazes me what costs over $8Million. ($4M private, $4M state, if this article is correct).

Not saying it's wrong, maybe just that my appreciation of what things cost is skewed.

Nontheless, we're replacing a bunch of tents on a back-street, and we spent $8 Milliion to do it.

So to pay back the $8Mil, I imagine they will replace the old highly discounted booths offering cheap produce, and mobbed by throngs of highly-diverse customers. I imagine the new market will have plenty of organic kale and the above-mentioned $8/lb heirloom tomatoes and be populated mostly by North End Yuppies and Tourists seeking lattes. See SOWA Market.

Just my guess. Feeling a little bit cynical.

http://charlestownbridge.com/2013/07/11/boston-public-market-closer-to-t...

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So...

You're criticizing building costs when you don't know what is actually being built.

You're whining about prices and products that you haven't seen.

You're snarking about the demographics of a customer base that doesn't exist yet.

All that is something, but I don't think "cynical" is the word for it.

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what some of these "athletes" are being paid these days? For playing children's games.

Perhaps more outrage should be directed towards those sorts of things. Oh,that's right. Government spending is deemed to be inherently wasteful, and private spending is deemed to be inherently efficent.

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I hope this new market won't mean the end of Haymarket. Did you hear that somewhere?

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Who knew a farmers market would be so controversial... people need to get a life. If you want homogenity, move to the Wal-Mart suburbs. Bye!

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Excellent! If you've ever toured a family-owned local farm you appreciate the amount of dedication and hard labor that goes into growing food. There is no comparison between buying fresh spinach from a local farm and spinach at a mega grocery store chain that ships spinach from who knows where. Hope this farmers market is a great success!
To all the haters commenting against local farmers -- educate yourselves and try getting your hands dirty and doing a little hard work for a change!

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Uhm, I grow my own veggies when the seasons allow. I guess I do need an "education" to get me to buy a bunch of carrots for $3.
I've been to several farmers markets and all the carrot bunches are $3. If so, I don't buy anything. How does that make me a "hater"?

Actually, I think it makes me a "tad" smarter for not paying such high prices. You can feel free to overspend, just don't call people "haters" that happen to live on a budget.

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Congrats for being so fortunate to live in the city and have a yard! Most of us don't have that luxury... myself being one if them which is why I am pro fatmers markets and pro local farmers. I choose to spend more on fresh healthy food and less on other things that aren't as important to me. It's all about choosing your priorities, right? When I was younger I couldn't afford to buy organic produce, but now I try to when budget allows. Sorry if this offends you. Please do read up on pesticide use.

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Living on a budget doesn't make someone a hater.
Deciding you can't afford to pay $3 for a bunch of carrots does not make someone a hater.
Spewing a lot of toxic waste about how farmers' markets are a tool to oppress the common man and how anyone who shops there is an idiot...that makes you a hater. We've seen quite a bit of this kind of toxic waste in this thread. I wonder, if people are so comfortable with their choices, why are they so damn defensive to the point of spit-spraying hysteria? No one's bloody judging you, go take a nap, you're cranky!

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I am not sure how you got out of this conversation " farmers' markets are a tool to oppress the common man and how anyone who shops there is an idiot.", but I do envy your imagination!

Farmers Markets are for those who are able to spend much more for something that is easily attainable elsewhere at a less cost, that is all.

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In Defense of Food and The Omnivore's Dilemma are two of the best books I have read that argue in favor of locally produced food and address cost in dollars as well as non-dollar costs of food that is shipped across the nation and continent.

I've generally found fruits and vegetables to cost more sheckles at a local farmer's market. The reasons I understand include produce that is actually shipped unripened (tomatoes are green when shipped and so never are fully ripe, the color is forced), lower labor costs, greater efficiencies (lower per pound cost), governmental subsidies, all combine to allow for overall lower costs per pound.

Remove these elements: Increase labor costs, remove subsidies, remove the efficiency (grocery store workers are not the people growing and harvesting the food), brick and mortar stationary selling locations (though a permanent market might make some change to farmer's costs) and require that the tomatoes shipped from California and Mexico be ripe - the grocery store cost will be a lot higher than they are.

Quality of food versus quantity of price. There is a correlation where the lower the quantity of sheckles spent on food = a lower quality of food. As mentioned fresh food which is locally grown and sold when ripe = better tasting food. So in paying more for that food what is purchased is better tasting food.

I also recognize that when I buy from a local farmer I am putting part of my income back into the local economy. The profit stays in Massachusetts and so those profits are taxed in Massachusetts, not another state or nation.

After reading Mr. Pollan's books I realized that I do myself a disservice if I choose food solely on the basis of the cost at the register. Where I save cash I loose in flavor, nutrition and enjoyment of the one of the most basic things in life. That is why I will pay another dollar or two for better bread or prefer butter over margarine (though I've been suspicious of margarine for years (it's a commie plot gosh darn it! And don't get me started on Wonder Bread!)).

I believe that as a culture we have evolved to prefer quantity over quality and to use price as the primary measurement of quality. It's is ironic considering how often the aphorism that one gets what one pays for is true. But that doesn't stop us - rich and poor - from loading up on the number of things to the exclusion of the quality of things. A cell phone for every person, a car for every adult, a myriad of gadgets, each becoming obsolete in a couple of years, seems far more important than the quality of one of the things that matter most: what we eat.

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