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Space savers don't go down without a fight

Steve Annear has been following a trash truck through East Boston this morning. And, yes, one guy removed his space saver then put it right back after the truck went by.

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the guy in the photo looks happy about it. He'll be none happy when he comes home and finds someone else parking in his spot. And not surprised people are doing that, people are not going to give up the spaces without a fight.

Seriously. enough with the space saver crap. I don't even own a car, and I'm tired of seeing and hearing about it. Give it up guys, you've had the same parking spaces for over a month now. Long enough.

So sick of this BS...

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And I have a car and enjoy it and my parking spot(s).

I'm just sick of slipping and sliding off of the mounds between the spots. I fell once and almost fell 4 more times this morning. Advil will be my friend.

Drive your cars people, and stop with the space saving already.

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Easy for people to say, some side roads in Eastie are still with high mounds of snow. The only streets that have been completely free of snow are businesses and residential streets with political connections!!! It's so obvious.
walk down meridian street one side does not have an ounce of snow on the ground ,that side of the street has 2 businesses!! (Meridian street areaFrom Havre to London st,)also look at George Visconti rd What a disgrace !!! Seen some old woman pushing a cart full of groceries with a 5 year old in one hand walking dangerously out onto the street because no one from the city has shoveled a single path from havre to paris steet, go see for yourselves.

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If you don't have a car you should be thankful you don't have to deal with this and mind your own business. Instead of cheering for the space saver removal maybe we should be getting the city to actually remove the snow.

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Thanks for your useless comment.

Even though I don't have a car, my roommate does. He has been unable to park at home for over a month now due to people hogging up spaces. So yes, it is my business.

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Why doesn't he park in the space he no doubt meticulously shoveled?

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You totally missed that one.

See below.

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Maybe if selfish self important wannabie urban warlords didn't block the street with space savers the streets could be plowed to the curb. Nah, that would make sense.

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Have a plow following the guy taking space savers. Oh wait, they're not doing that? Lol if you think the half ass snow removal in this city is caused by plastic chairs and not the other way around. As long as the city is having us do DIY snow removal it's only fair to let us save the space.

In somerville there is a glacier on the even side of the street where the city made everyone move in order for them to properly remove snow. Guess they must be worried about space savers too.

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I don't think a chair is much match for a snow plow tbh.

The reason streets aren't plowed to the curb is because people are allowed to park on them during snow emergencies.

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In Somerville they aren't. It doesn't matter, they still don't plow to the curb.

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I don't even own a car, and I'm tired of seeing and hearing about it.

Yeah, that doesn't really bolster your point, but rather confirms my suspicion that many non-drivers and people who don't live in Boston are the most vocal about savers.

FWIW, I own a car in Boston and I'm getting sick of hearing about it too. However, I can't grasp why those without a dog in the fight are so invested.

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...you're just not a very rigorous thinker, are you? Try collecting actual data points and then come back to us. Otherwise, stop bellyaching when other people express an opinion. Your notion of "dog in the fight" is much narrower than the reality.

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See above: "people who don't live in Boston."

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This who don't use space savers still have to live with all the trashy people who littler our streets with their filth to mark public space as theirs, so it impacts all of us, we all have to endure our city looking more like NH with trash all over the place because you are stealing public property.

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Right, it's a class thing. The working class people who park on the street have figured out a way to make winters bearable here. Space savers. It has nothing to do with you, but you dislike being forced to look at it while you're on your way to a long day of work as an innovator.

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Why doesn't your room mate find an unshoveled spot and shovel it out? Are there literally no spaces that can be shoveled within a block of your apartment?

I find the people with driveways, people with no cars and people who never shoveled a spot are the ones most vocal about space saving. It's very rare to hear someone claim to shovel out a spot, not save it then shovel out a second or third spot.

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There are no spaces. Any free spaces were taken up by the first snow storm. And anything 'free' after that is on a 'snow emergency' route so they are pointless to take anyways. There have been NO free spaces on my street, or any surrounding streets for well over a month now.

Besides, like a responsible car owner.. you know.. the ones who don't hog up a space for weeks on end, when it snows he pays to park in a garage. You know, like you're SUPPOSE to do instead of hogging up a space for weeks on end.

I find the people with driveways, people with no cars and people who never shoveled a spot are the ones most vocal about space saving. It's very rare to hear someone claim to shovel out a spot, not save it then shovel out a second or third spot.

I find the twits who drive and feel its their 'god given right' to occupy a public space on a public street for well over a month are the ones who are most vocal about space saving. How long is enough for you? Do we need flowers coming out of the ground in order for space savers to stop being used?

Look folks, I support space savers.. never said I didn't. BUT it's been well over 3 weeks since our last "state of emergency" and close to two weeks were we've had more than a few inches.. How long do you plan on keeping that space? how long is "good enough" for you? Flowers? or do we need to be wearing swimming trunks and suntan lotion?

Enough is enough folks..

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Somerville still has a snow emergency in effect.

Did your roommate shovel a space out after the storm after leaving the garage? No? Why should he get to park in a space someone else shoveled? In my neighborhood there are plenty of places to park if you want to do some serious excavation. The city should be the one doing it, but until they do I'll be saving my space.

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Did your roommate shovel a space out after the storm after leaving the garage? No? Why should he get to park in a space someone else shoveled?

That's why he parks in a garage so he doens't have to do that. And besides, you can't throw snow in the street.. those piles are there for a reason. Because there is no place to put the snow.

And why do you get to park for WELL OVER A MONTH in the same spot, just because "you shoveled" it out? Sorry I don't buy that... a few days, sure. But over a month, is excessive.

Again, answer my question.. "how long do you plan on using that space saver for?" .. are we waiting for Back to School specials at stores? or maybe halloween candy.

HOW LONG IS ENOUGH FOR YOU?

The city should be the one doing it, but until they do I'll be saving my space.

And THIS self serving, self righteous attitude is what is wrong with space savers and why the practice needs to go away.

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You think if you park in a garage so you don't have to shovel you then get to park in a spot someone else shoveled out and I'm the entitled one? OK.

I'll be using a space saver until the city removes the snow or it melts. I live in Somerville, so any time they like they could bring the plow down the empty even side of the street (we still have a snow emergency!) and create 100% more parking spaces than there are currently. I will jump for joy around a pile of burning space savers when that day comes.

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Please Mary.. Your entire comment is "I'm an entitled snot"

I'll be using a space saver until the city removes the snow or it melts

Wow what a self serving, I'm "entitled" comment.

What part of PUBLIC PARKING do you not understand? Its a PUBLIC STREET. Its free parking for ALL. No one is entitled to a space, even if you 'shoveled it out'. It's not yours to own. it's everyone's. All car owners are in the same boat with all the snow. Just because you shoved a spot, doesn't give you dibs on it for MONTHS.

I pay my taxes like everyone else. I should (or my roommate for this matter) be able to park on my street after a snow storm.. not MONTHS after like this has dragged on because people feel entitled to a spot because they shoveled it. I have just as much a right to park on my street as someone who 'shovels".

and..

I live in Somerville,

Good luck on that. You're breaking the law in Somerville. Space savers are illegal in Somerville. I hope you have a lot of space savers to give away, because you're going to keep losing them as they get taken away. I really hope someone takes your space so your panties will be all in a bunch.

What a self serving asshole you are.

Edit: this is why I f**kin hate the space saver debate.. always brings out the " but but but but but I'm special" self serving assholes out there in droves. *rolls eyes*

Dropping off this conversation.. my blood pressure has gone up enough today.

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Cybah calls Dave Davery "Mary". How precious. I haven't heard anyone calling anyone "Mary" since the old days at Playland and Napoleon. Your wrinkles are showing Cybah.

And then Cybah follows by calling people twits, snots, and assholes. How delightful.

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Oh you're an asshole too :)

And you're showing your age too. I'm probably still younger than you. I wasn't around in the days of Playland (way before my time)..

(seriously, is this all you have to add to the debate?)

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Yes, I am entitled to the fruits of my labor. The people who parked in a garage to avoid a few hours of labor are not. Calm down. Some shoveling will work out the stress.

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Seriously, are you ok? You need to grab a snifter of whiskey, toss some snow in the glass and relax a little. You are getting very heated for someone who literally has no horse in the game. Let your room mate go out and scream. I still don't get why the public transit people are the ones who have the biggest fits over this issue.

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It's going to do us all in.

I'm convinced it will never melt. We're doomed to live in this frozen hellscape for ever. Hell isn't burning fire, it's having to shovel snow, forever.

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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante%27s_Satan

According to Dante hell does have lots of ice at the center. That puts us squarely in the middle of the 9th cirCle.

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I'll use my space saver as long as I need to. The number of weeks or days doesn't matter. The Mayors removal policy doesn't matter. I'll just put out a new one.

What does matter is that there are no other spots in my neighborhood so if I don't use a space saver, I don't have a place to park. So I will protect the space that I created with tons of hard work for as long as I need to. And there are thousands and thousands of people in Boston that feel the same way, despite all the hating going on here at UHub.

So if the city does enough snow removal to create some more spots, or when the snow melts, I'll be happy to remove my space saver.

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I'll use my space saver as long as I need to. The number of weeks or days doesn't matter. The Mayors removal policy doesn't matter. I'll just put out a new one.

So you're thumbing nose at everyone else because you feel "entitled" to have a parking space. Nice to know you only care about yourself and no one else around you. ME ME ME...

Seriously, go fuck you and your entitled attitude.

This is exactly why the whole practice needs to go away, for attitudes like YOURS. Self entitled BS...

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...more than someone else? And why do you deserve it more than someone else? Don't say "because I shoveled" and don't say "if the city does enough snow removal to create some more spots". It's not like there are dozens of available spots just waiting for a real honest hard-working red-blooded lived-here-all-my-life citizen like yourself to shovel them out. There isn't enough to go around, so in a very snowy winter, what makes you such a special snowflake?

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What does matter is that there are no other spots in my neighborhood so if I don't use a space saver, I don't have a place to park.

Translation: "There's a shortage, so I'm going to ensure I get mine, at the expense of everyone else, by using a space saver to consume even more parking than I usually do."

Does that same attitude also entitle you to save a space in the summer? The simple arithmetic is that 3/4 of people with valid permits aren't going to find a space on the street, because there are only 1/4 as many spaces as there are cars looking to park in them.

Hoarding is sociopathic.

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Somerville's snow emergency doesn't matter because space savers are *NEVER* legal there. They're not really legal in Boston either, they're just tolerated by mayors who've promised not to enforce the law for a certain amount of time.

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Well if Mayor Joe says he doesn't approve I must be imagining the fact that every shoveled space on my street in Somerville has a space saver in it.

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I'm surprised Joe doesn't approve, given that he called the kids who sat on the highway and blocked traffic heroes. Guess he doesn't love all trash on the road.

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of very poor grammar. Please correct this at your convenience.

You know, like you're SUPPOSE to do

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He speaks the truth.

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As someone who has lived in this city all my life I DO use a space saver. I also make sure my sidewalk (which isn't technically "my property") is shoveled all the way out to the curb - the complete width of the sidewalk and owning a corner property makes for some hefty shoveling. What I really don't understand and never have is why we need space savers anyway? How could anyone with a shred of common decency look at my neighborhood - see a spot that is shoveled, clear of debris and ice and salted and think that it's ok to pull into that spot -space saver or no space saver? I know if I had done that as a kid my father, then my mother would have backhanded my butt into last year for disrespecting my neighbors hard work - then they would have made me go shovel out spots for others just as a lesson in common decency. Really people - if you pull into a spot that is OBVIOUSLY the result of someone else's hard work that says a lot more about your parents than you know - is that how you were raised? If so, your mother and father failed miserably!

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I also make sure my sidewalk (which isn't technically "my property") is shoveled all the way out to the curb

Oh, congratulations. You do what you're legally required to do. Do you always want to brag about how to don't go around murdering people?

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Actually, I am legally required to shovel a 40 inch path - NOT the entire width of the sidewalk - so check your facts before opening your trap! - Better yet , just keep your trap shut and do us all a favor you puke!

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...under the age of 80 and not from Oklahoma to use the word "trap" in that way.

(or maybe I'm wrong about your age and where you're from?)

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Nope - not from Oklahoma -Bostonian all the way - but after this winter I sure am feeling a lot closer to 80 than I would like!

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About that 80 thing -- me too, Tom. It's the shoveling.

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... I don't think "shut your trap" was all that common an expression (at least in the 1950s and 1960s).

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Watch out. We have a badass over here!

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You're trolling, right? You're really just bored and maybe drunk so you are looking for some cheap laughs.

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just sayin

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What's the situation on your street? Are there more than enough spaces for all the people who own cars and want to park there? If so, you've maybe got a bit of a point. If not, the real issue isn't the snow, it's that there just aren't enough spaces for everyone who wants to park there, no matter how willing they are to shovel. Just look past the snow for a minute. Will you also be saving "your" space in the summer?

Do visitors come to your neighborhood? Why do they come -- to visit friends or a business? Do you think that their friends and business owners should shovel out extra spaces for them? Again, if you really have ample parking in your neighborhood, that might make sense. You might have more success, however, if instead of taking an adversarial, confrontational attitude, you got together with your neighbors to get all the spaces shoveled out. Problem solved, right? It works a lot better than being a dog in the proverbial manger.

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There are no businesses on residential streets and yes, if my neighbor wants someone to be able to come visit them and park right outside their house they should shovel a space out for them. Or they can park further away and walk, or take the T. Pretty simple.

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Are there ample parking spaces in your neighborhood, so that anyone who wanted one could have one if they only shoveled it out?

When the storm came, were there unoccupied spaces, or was every one filled with a car?

If the latter, how is anyone who wasn't right there at the time of the storm ever supposed to park in your neighborhood? Guess you don't really have any visitors, hm?

Oh yeah...there ARE businesses on residential streets. Maybe not on yours, but there is such a thing as mixed commercial/residential. I'm surprised, with your lifetime tenure in Boston, that you've never heard of a corner store.

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Yeah, I remember as a kid in Boston driving down to the corner store on my block...

There actually were a couple unoccupied spaces on my street even after the first two storms, one was right outside my apartment. I saw some guy come home one day and spend a good 2 hours digging out a new spot for himself. He's saved it ever since and I have absolutely no problem with it, because if he didn't put that labor in it would be a jagged sheet of ice by now, and no one else could park there anyway.

I tell anyone coming to visit that they probably won't find a spot to park so they should take the T. There's an industrial area around the corner where no one is saving spaces if they want to brave parking at a 45 degree angle on a shelf of ice, or they can park down on the main street where Cambridge has done a good job of snow removal. Stop it with the concern trolling over visitors and small businesses being ruined.

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I'll type it for you again:

Are there so many parking spaces in your neighborhood that anyone could have one if they simply shoveled? "A couple unoccupied spaces" don't add up to that. So what's the story here?

Stop it with the concern trolling over visitors and small businesses being ruined.

"concern trolling", that's a new one. Whatever your invented phrase means, it's totally misplaced here. Deal with the issue. Is there sufficient space for everyone who wants to park in your neighborhood, or is there not? If not, why are you entitled to a space over someone else? If one of your neighbors was out of town for two weeks and came home, would they be able to simply dig out a space and park?

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he's just being a troll.. not sure why you even bothering to reply.

(but I agree with where you are going.. same argument could be used with my roommate's parking situation)

I'll even say that on my street.. the whole length from Marginal to B'way, there's THREE mounds of snow that could be parking spots. However, one is too close to a hydrant to be a full spot. One is too small for anything except for a Mini or Toyota Yaris to park there. And the final one.. to close a driveway to be a legal spot

Not sure where "all of these spaces" are he keeps seeing..

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The situation "Dave Davery" describes is the same on my street. There is no parking shortage under regular weather conditions, so when heavy snow comes around it's just a matter of putting in the work shoveling. There will always be a spot if you make one.

So I don't think he's being a troll. On the other hand, the guy who doesn't drive replying to the guy who doesn't live in Boston -- both of whom are all over these parts voicing their thoughts on a system they don't deal with....

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"Are there so many parking spaces in your neighborhood that anyone could have one if they simply shoveled?"

Well, yeah. There are actually. I would say on a normal day the street is maybe 60% full.

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There are no businesses on residential streets and yes, if my neighbor wants someone to be able to come visit them and park right outside their house they should shovel a space out for them. Or they can park further away and walk,

If they park further away, aren't they still parking in a space that someone has shoveled out?

This is where the space-saver logic breaks down. Any parkable space is a space that someone has shoveled out.

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No, in a metered spot on a snow emergency street that the city did a fine job of clearing. Or in the industrial area where there are no space savers and coincidentally no well shoveled spots. Not every neighborhood is doing space saving. Also I'd need to give someone a visitor's pass to park on my street anyway.

If I'm visiting my friend in the Back Bay should I expect to be able to park directly outside his house?

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If I'm visiting my friend in the Back Bay should I expect to be able to park directly outside his house?

No, not in the winter, nor in the summer. For one thing, it's permit parking only, and for another, even the people who live there can't reasonably expect to park in front of their own houses. And, for various reasons, you don't find space-saving very much in Back Bay. For one thing, a higher percentage of people there, relative to some other neighborhoods, would recognize the phrase "tragedy of the commons" and understand its applicability to parking.

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correction: Back Bay is not residential permit parking only. There are many meters on Beacon St,, Comm. Ave. and several side streets. The side street meters turn residential after 6pm. Glad space saving here is uncommon... however, I would not move a space saver nor would I park in a spot with a space saver. We shovel and/or put the car in a garage.

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Yeah how dare people pull into an empty spot on a public street!

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...is technically your property, at least when it comes to snow removal. It's not some grand selfless gesture to clear off the thing you're legally obligated to shovel.

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My street is pretty good, but walking through my neighborhood over to Belgrade and there it seems like 1/2 of Durnell is untouched. I have a much bigger problem with the people who shovel out their parking spots and leave their sidewalk untouched or, worse, use it as a spot to put the snow from their spots. WTF.

If the city wants to cover some of these snow removal costs, they should be out ticketing people - it's probably 1 in 5 houses so that will add up pretty quick.

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... in our little corner of Roslindale the crosswalks are blocked by 8 foot (6 foot) piles of snow -- rendering the sidewalks almost useless -- unless you are just visiting a neighbor on your own block.

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What does "8 foot (6 foot) piles of snow" mean? That they're really 6 feet but everyone says they're 8 feet?

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... subjectively speaking they _seem_ 8 feet tall, but -- perhaps-- a yardstick might tell a slightly different story.

Why the niggle?

My point was that these giant heaps of (now icy) snow block almost every cross-walk.

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...I haven't seen any 8 foot snowbanks, and people keep talking about them like they're a ubiquitous thing. Maybe it's a guy thing? "This is eight inches..."

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... and there are mounds at corners a bit taller (Maybe today they will have melted a bit, we'll see). I have definitely seen some 8-ish foot piles, albeit not on my own street. Not much snow has been cleared out of Roslindale side streets, just shoved off the middle of the streets and into huge banks and piles.

I have no idea where you live, so I have no idea what you have been likely to see.

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Try Centre St in Jamaica Plain.

They were high until the past week of weather helped knock them down some. Also, the City did removed some of the bigger piles 2 weeks ago in the Hyde Sq area down to sidewalk. Some of them. A lot remains. Actually, Bynner between Jamaicaway and Day St has some pretty large piles now that I think of it.

They exist, but they've been getting smaller, gradually.

(not a guy)

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Take your 6 foot piles and add additional snow from shoveling or plowing or snowblowing or blizzard wind.
Voila, 8 foot or taller snow piles.

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Again, I'm curious. I was looking around Brighton last week. Average seemed around 2.5 to 4 feet. There were a relatively small number of 6 footers, and one that was in a private lot that looked like it might go 7 feet.

Look, four feet is high enough if you have to shovel on top of it. It's not like you have to exaggerate to get my sympathy.

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Durnell and Metcalf
Corinth St, between the church and the new building, under the MBTA tracks.
etc...

I'm sure others can weigh in if they care too.

The bottom line is that the snowfall combined with the snow removal policies means that there are huge swaths of the city where traffic patterns for cars will be pretty good, pretty soon and people will have to walk in the street because residents/owners simply did not meet their obligations for snow removal, compounded by the actions of plows.

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... did a fine job of shoveling walks -- but it does nothing to ameliorate the need to walk in the street -- unless one wants to climb over a snow bank whenever one needs to cross a street. (Do residents have any obligation to keep clearing crosswalks each time the city blocks them with gigantic piles of snow?

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The snow banks are very bad in Dorchester. Between JFK/UMass and Savin Hill T stops, in the streets between Dot Ave and Sydney Street, the snow banks are particularly bad at all of the corners/intersections. I'd say that most banks are well over 6 feet high on most corners. Very difficult to navigate safely in the intersections because the visibility is so poor. This neighborhood is entirely residential.

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All I can say is that I am an inch below 6 feet and I have seen piles that are over my head. They are totally plow produced, and their creation has a lot to do with the multiple storms. Remember when there was only 3 and a half feet of snow after 3 storms? The 2 major storms after than ended up with the huge piles of snow on the corners even taller.

Hopefully, in a few weeks, when that claim is made, it will be complete BS.

We can only hope.

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"As someone who has lived in this city all my life I DO use a space saver."

Since you've lived in Boston your whole life, are you more entitled to save a parking space than someone who has not?

"How could anyone with a shred of common decency look at my neighborhood - see a spot that is shoveled, clear of debris and ice and salted and think that it's ok to pull into that spot -space saver or no space saver?"

Because Boston is a city. As in "an urban environment". I feel like it goes without saying why someone would take that spot. But I'll say it anyway: because the marjotiy of people live in urban environments have to street park. It's that simple. If there is a perfectly shoveled/salted spot wide open, then the person who did that has done a service for the community and should be proud.

If you've really lived here your whole life you should understand that. An open spot is an open spot, no matter what season it is. I grew up in South Philly, so street parking is something I've had to deal with my whole life.

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And back in the '60's, '70's and '80's space savers weren't the problem they are now because people were more decent and respectful to each other and each others hard work. Its wasn't until the trash from South Philly moved into town that things started going down hill.

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You seem very sure of your facts, and particularly that rest on something as tenuous and unprovable as people's attitudes. Are you quite sure that it wasn't a matter of more people wanting to own cars in the city?

(short version: you're talking out your ass)

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...who posted about out of town "trash", it's pretty simple. They're just angry and scared of change, and it's easy to blame those they percieve as outsiders as the ones who are creating the problems.

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but I would like more details on the South Philly allegation.

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And back in the '60's, '70's and '80's space savers weren't the problem they are now because people were more decent and respectful to each other and each others hard work.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason space savers weren't a problem then, but are a problem now, isn't that people have become nasty, but rather, that there are just a lot more cars now than there were then, so that trying to claim exclusive use of a space now is no longer workable?

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And you helped with this this, is that the system works better in a neighborhood where parking is not at a premium, but can get tight after snow reduces supply. Hence, South Boston, or at least the parts of Southie where things haven't gone to pot, want to be able to throw a cone out to protect their handiwork for a little while longer, while the South End is trying to do away with the practice altogether.

Seriously, though, I cannot imagine space saving working on Beacon Hill or thereabouts.

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I guess that "trash" hasn't been living in Boston for almost 7 years because he's active duty Coast Guard and has been so for a decade and a half. Nice thing to say to someone who has chosen a career of service. You may apologize whenever you're ready.

Also, your mother and father must have done a terrible job with you is that's how you respond to someone who challenges your opinions. If you can take it, don't dish it out. And stop saving your space. It's childish.

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"As someone who has lived in this city all my life I DO use a space saver."

Since you've lived in Boston your whole life, are you more entitled to save a parking space than someone who has not?

"How could anyone with a shred of common decency look at my neighborhood - see a spot that is shoveled, clear of debris and ice and salted and think that it's ok to pull into that spot -space saver or no space saver?"

Because Boston is a city. As in "an urban environment". I feel like it goes without saying why someone would take that spot. But I'll say it anyway: because the marjotiy of people live in urban environments have to street park. It's that simple. If there is a perfectly shoveled/salted spot wide open, then the person who did that has done a service for the community and should be proud.

If you've really lived here your whole life you should understand that. An open spot is an open spot, no matter what season it is. I grew up in South Philly, so street parking is something I've had to deal with my whole life.

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When people visit your neighborhood, whether they are going to a business or visiting friends, whatever...are they just not supposed to park anywhere that's obviously clean because someone else shoveled it? So basically any space that's clean is off limits?

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Really people - if you pull into a spot that is OBVIOUSLY the result of someone else's hard work that says a lot more about your parents than you know - is that how you were raised? If so, your mother and father failed miserably!

What, according to your worldview, is the proper way to park when, for example, driving to another neighborhood to visit someone there, or stopping at the hardware store to pick up yet another bag of ice-melt?

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Do nurses visiting the elderly and disabled fear that their vehicles will be vandalized? Do space cadets recognize VNA cars and leave them alone?

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They leave a sign on their dashboard, just like when they park in resident parking areas.

I saw the neighbor's VN today. She knows to pull into my driveway. Heck, she was actually in "someone's" space, unmarked, but she comes by daily and knows, so he didn't take it (and she probably could have.)

As I noted before, we were having a medical person over the house after one of those storms that closed work and daycare. She was not willing to park in one of the spots on the street. No fear, just respect, so she came after the driveway was cleared. I should note that these medical folk do kind of park on the sidewalk (my driveway is not that long,) but there's room to get by and the VN is only over for 10 minutes.

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Riiiiiiight.

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Trust me, she'd be the first one to throw a chair out on the street if she shoveled a spot out (though I believe she has a driveway.) If you live by the code, you respect the code. The VN, on the other hand, I only know by sight. I don't know what her deal is, except she visits my neighbor every morning.

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How could anyone with a shred of common decency look at my neighborhood - see a spot that is shoveled, clear of debris and ice and salted and think that it's ok to pull into that spot -space saver or no space saver?

If there's no space saver, how does one know that the space is saved? An open spot is an open spot & it's nearly impossible to know the "neighborhood rules" for who has claim on a spot.

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Just curious, where are you putting the snow if you're shoveling all the way to the curb? My neighbors and I would love to do this in front of our homes but can't since that would mean we have to put into the street, so everyone just does the best they can and balances making a decent path with a pile on the end of the sidewalk curb.

And in your scenario where your parents would have theoretically made you shovel out several spaces as punishment for daring to park in a clean, shoveled space you didn't shovel yourself, who would park in these spaces if everyone on the block had enough respect to not park in a space someone else shoveled?

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It all gets shoveled over the fence and onto my tiny yard which looks like a MOUNTAIN about now. And my mother would make me go shovel the mounds left by the snow plows...

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What a tragedy. All that hard work you and slaving away at the mountains of snow, and then all the "trash" from south Philly shows up and ruins it all overnight. Hate when that happens.

By the way, scroll up and take a look at my reply to your post where you insulted me and where I'm from. You'll feel like an idiot after reading it, I'm sure.

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Funny how the same people who kept bringing up the mayors OK of space savers are now saying "I don't care what the mayor says!" now that he rightfully points out that its selfish and ridiculous to be using a space saver weeks after the last snow emergency.

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If his car isn't in the space, shouldn't he be in it?

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Wait, do you have to own a car to use a space-saver?

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If there's no snow and you don't own a car and you don't live on that particular street and you don't know anyone on that particular street, can you use a space saver? Why not just buy the space outright from the city - a personal private way? Think of the increased revenues. Good bye gas tax!
Good bye excise tax! Woo-hoo! And perhaps other parts of the street could be for sale - if there are sidewalks on a particular street, they should be up for sale as well. And air rights. And the portions of water and sewer pipes under the parking space. "Fascinating", Mr. Spock might say.
Or perhaps just merely, "interesting."

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Wait. So it was the trash collectors that were assigned to pick up space savers today? Yeah... no. That didn't happen at all in my neighborhood. Unless Marty is sending out public works trucks later on, the entire city just called his bluff.

I hear the phrase in sports that a coach has "lost the locker room." Is there such thing as a mayor losing the city?

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Jeez. Picking your precious space saver out of the back of the trash truck? Have some dignity. How embarrassing.

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If the DPW really wanted to rid the city of filth they would throw the people who are still using space savers in the back of the dump truck.

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It appears you registered a few weeks ago for the sole purpose of hating on space savers and the people who use them. Apparently you never shoveled a spot in your life, and cant appreciate why people use space savers, otherwise you wouldn't be so filled with hate of your neighbors. Space savers have a purpose, and the space saver system works quite well most of the time. I'm a space saver user and I will be until the snow melts or the city removes some more snow. The Mayor can remove all the savers he wants, but they will be replaced until the need is not longer there.

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Better watch out, everybody, we've got a forensic specialist on our hands. Disagree with him and he'll track down your uhub history and confront you with a detailed personal history of your life-long snow-shoveling accomplishments (or lack thereof) and psychoanalysis of your emotions and motivations.

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they live in JP.

(I'm kidding.)

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Because people who line the streets with trash, vandalize the property of others, make threats, worsen the reputation of our city and think they have the right to take public property for themselves are an easy group to hate.

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Focus a little - this is a discussion about space savers, not the Boston 2024 movement.

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That's all.

(And before you think it, no I am not that anon. Yes, I use a screen name, but I wouldn't back down from saying something if I thought it was worth saying.)

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Getting you down?

Does someone have a case of the Mondays?

Seriously, why so angry?

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He's spent the past 3 weeks looking for a parking space.

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Seriously, why so angry?

I'll speak for myself: someone attempting to help himself to public resources for private use, whether it's an oil company bribing its way to grossly underpriced drilling rights on public lands, or whether it's individuals trying to own public parking spaces, pisses me off.

And on top of that, the rude, ignorant, self-centered, unwillingness to look at systematic implications of ones own behavior pisses me off more. And then the "I don't care if I'm making a time of shortage worse by hoarding what ought to be shared; I've got mine, Jack, eff you, " attitude expressed by the people defending space-savers pisses me off even worse.

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This is the internet. I do hear what you're saying, but this is the internet and a small slice of it, at that. Yes, we represent people in the real world, but some here may be poking teh crazy just to get a rise (we're all crazy, I'm not singling anyone out. I include myself in teh crazy).

And honestly, it's kind of fun to poke at some who only seem to have one drum to beat. (I am looking at you Kinopio/Toad-boy, though I try not to respond. I do a lot of imagi-responding! :)). I understand peeves, trust me I have them too.

But UHub is not the place that will solve the problems of the world, space-saver or no.

Perhaps we all need to back away from our keyboards for a smidge. What did our parents say? If we don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all?

I just think people are taking it all way too seriously. Where's that cartoon of the stick figure working at a computer, saying "Somewhere someone in the internet is WRONG!"

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Where did it say he picked it out of the trash truck?

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Steve Annear (@steveannear) Tweeted a picture of two guys pulling their precious cones out of the back of a trash truck.

https://twitter.com/steveannear/status/572387462942744576

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I thought you were talking about the bearded fellow with his chair, didn't look at the rest of his tweets.

My favorite was last year when the scrap metal guys went through southie picking up space savers and some townies tracked the guys down and made them dump the whole load out Good times.

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reading is fun.

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That's who you are if you behave like this guy. Who you are when (you think) no one is looking is who you are.

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Just report it to the Mayors hotline via app/web.

I've had pretty good luck in the past with this. City sends a truck out to pick them up.

http://www.cityofboston.gov/mayor/24/

The problem here is that they've coordinated the end of space savers + garbage collection on the same day. Sounds like a good plan but in a lot of cases this defeats the purpose because the garbage collectors end up placing trash cans and recycling bins back into the parking spaces. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning.

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I'm still enjoying that one so much, takes my mind off space savers.

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or big blue recycling containers. They are the most popular space savers in my neighborhood. And they double as real trash and recycling containers on trash day. What's Mayor Mahtee going to do, remove all the barrels and big blues? I don't think so.

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Mahtee, like Marty, aka Martin Walsh, you know, the Mayor. This anon is quite the comedian.

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Hopefully they'll just toss 'em up on the sidewalk where they won't impede traffic or vehicles trying to park. A trash/recycling container does not belong in the street anyway.

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While I agree with you about them not belonging in the street, we were told expressly to put them there on trash day so they could be retrieved by the trash company.

But yes, I do agree with you.

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Why should pedestrians have to walk over piles of snow, ice, recycling bins and other assorted space savers but the street must be crystal clear?

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If they're full, put them on the sidewalk, at the curb, away from where pedestrians walk. If they've been emptied, put them on the front lawn, in the driveway, or otherwise on the property of the person who owns them.

And please don't get your underwear in a dudgeon assuming that I never walk anywhere. You'd be wrong about that. I've dealt with plenty of bins on the sidewalk blocking progress. The solution is not to put them in the street, forgodsake.

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So the ambulance can get to you. Or maybe the fire trucks or police cars.

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Removing the cars that haven't had snow cleared off them for the past month? Those are space savers too!

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Removing the cars that haven't had snow cleared off them for the past month? Those are space savers too!

No they aren't. By virtue of them being cars duly registered to local addresses with local excise taxes paid,, their owners are 100% legally entitled to park them on a public street.

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Space savers not going down without a fight breaking out among Uhub readers!

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Not surprised in the least, my neighbors in Cambridge do exactly the same. I don't even have a car and I've shoveled out three spots on my street for all to use, including one this weekend with an 8 foot mountain of snow on it. I was out for hours and hours clearing it. Within one day, BAM, space saver in it. One of my neighbors who saw me shovel the whole thing and who I'd told that I was doing it *for all to park* and that my dream was at least one space without a space saver in it. I'll refrain from naming and shaming (though I'm pissed). I've had it with trying to up the civility in this town, people are just too entitled.

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This whole space saver issue has gotten as nasty as a used condom. First off, if you live in the city and own a car....well. that's your choice. Second, if there is a snowstorm, blizzard, etc.. it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that you have access to your car. That means either shoveling it out during and after a snowstorm or moving it to a parking garage. The MBTA garages charge a daily rate of $7 per day to have your car parked there (non-snow emergency rate). If you can afford to have a car in the city then you can sure as hell afford to move it out before or during a snowstorm,

So, you spent three hours shoveling out your car?? Well, why not move it out of the city prior to a storm? Leave it outside the city until the snow is removed. Park it at a friends house, a family members home or make other arrangements.

People who think it's okay to use space savers three weeks after a storm has come and gone are nothing more than self-entitled babies. A public street is just that...a public street. You have no legal rights to take possession of your so-called parking space 3 weeks after a storm.

Here's a couple of suggestions: (1) get rid of your car and use public transit; (2) stop being a pussy and if you shovel out your car don't be so much of a dick that you expect to have your space empty when you arrive home from work; (3) don't put your junk (lawn chairs, old vacuum cleaners, trash barrels, orange cones, baby high chairs, etc) on a PUBLIC street and not expect the city to collect it for what it is: JUNK; (4) don't be a self-entitled asshat.

If they mayor had balls he would BAN space savers and focus on doing a better job next year on snow removal.

I lived in East Boston for three years and watched as people put out their crap in the street when a mere two inches of snow fell. Because there is no system of accountability people act like self-entitled pricks. When I learned of a major storm approaching I took responsibility for my property (my car) and I either shoveled it out during a storm or moved it to a garage, etc until the storm was over and snow was removed from the streets. If I cleared the snow and removed my car, I never expected the space to be there when i got back.

By allowing people to place space savers on city (public) streets they have been allowed to turn into narcissistic, self-entitled crybabies. I say toss out all the space savers, TOW EVERY CAR that hasn't been cleared of snow, clear the streets and allow those folks who are not self-entitled asshats and who took appropriate measures to remove their cars in preparation of a storm the ability to park.

East Boston is one of the worst neighborhoods for space savers. The arrogance and ridiculousness of many resident's is overwhelming. Talk about self-entitled?? I had a neighbor who put out a kitchen table and chairs in the street to "save" her parking space. I hauled it away at 2;30 in the morning and threw it into a dumpster. Then I waved another operator of a vehicle into the space. This woman nor any of her family cleared out the space. She was just another self-entitled pathetic individual who attempted to claim something she had no right too.

Marty Walsh needs grow brass balls and abolish space savers before winter 2016.

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as my contribution to what has to be the pissiest thread I've seen on here in a while, I am so tired of this "it took me three hours to shovel out my car" horsesh*t. It didn't. Unless you are a T-Rex wielding a butter knife, it just plain didn't. This snow was the lightest, easiest to shovel show ever--maybe the one blessing of this whole crazy month. I have the upper body strength of a first grader and I shoveled out hundreds of feet of sidewalk and a couple of cars and it never took more than an hour or so. So unless you're one of the neighborhood heroes who cleared the icy snow mounds in between the shoveled out space-savers to free up the corners or walkways, please spare us all the crap about the "fruits of your labor" and how you now own that spot until Opening Day.

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Oh Sally, you optimist. Opening Day's in April. These whiny babies are gonna cling to their space saver blankie until 4th of July, at least.

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I'm finding myself way on the outer rim when it comes to guessing when the last snow piles will be gone. Everyone's like "it'll be here until April!" and I'm thinking "it's always here until April!" Im betting that these minivan sized snowbanks (only some of which have a minivan inside them) will be here well into May.

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I shoveled out hundreds of feet of sidewalk and a couple of cars and it never took more than an hour or so

I have 2 functioning arms, but I don't have a lot of upper body strength, average I'd say. There is no way in hell you shoveled 100 feet of sidewalk, a width beyond that of a shovel, and several cars, within an hour. Those big storms we had took me 2 1/2 hours minimum each to do 2 car driveway, street cut, and maybe 60 feet of sidewalk, and I was using a snow blower (except for the street cut, since the electric blower won't get that stuff.)

As I've written before, 3 hours for a car seems extreme, but it's about as believable as your timeframe. You're talking, for example, 15 minutes per car and 10 feet per minute on the sidewalk to clear 2 feet of snow.

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But maybe an hour each, max. Max. And yes, of course that was after every huge snowfall, with some minor clean-ups in between. But I never spent three continuous hours or even two on one shoveling project. There was one guy on one of these threads who claimed that he spent nine hours shoveling out his car. Yeah...like a whole workday. Erm...no. My nonagenarian neighbor could unearth a car in shorter time using a teaspoon. I understand the general sense of Sisyphean tedium but this constant drama of "I earned this!" is ridiculous.

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And therein lays the factual problem with this debate. Yes, sweat equity versus individuals' assumption of rights to public roads is something worth going back and forth on, but unless your "car" is a tractor trailer or RV, you're not spending 8 or 9 hours each storm. Now, after all of this, the claim could be made of 9 hours in aggregate, but not per storm.

Remember when Adam used to post photos of "pre-saved" spaces, or space savers after we were "inundated" with 3 or 4 inches of snow, and we all used to laugh at them? Ah, good times.

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Actually, it did take us several hours to shovel out our vehicle after each storm because there was nowhere to put the snow. We had to haul every shovel load across the street and into the rear part of our neighbor's backyard. The only other option would have been to dump our snow into the street, or on the sidewalk. I have no idea where people are putting the snow in neighborhoods without any yards. Not a single dump truck has been down our street to do any actual snow "removal". We have just had plows pushing it around for the last month.

I agree that a space saver is not a perfect solution, and I agree that you take a certain amount of risk when you own a car in the city and only have access to street parking. However, some of the people on this thread act like those of us who own vehicles are rich and entitled and should be prepared to park it at a garage for weeks at a time, have family and friends outside the city with spare parking, or simply can get away with not accessing their vehicles for weeks on end.This is not realistic. What about those who have a car so that they can get to a job outside of the city, or work during hours when the T doesn't operate? What about the elderly or disabled who are not able to get around by T, and also can't realistically shovel out a brand new space every time they get home? All of these issues are compounded by the complete collapse of the MBTA over the last few weeks, which severely limited our ability to get around without a car.

The street in my Dorchester neighborhood is lined with Nissans and Toyotas, not BMWs and Cadillacs. My neighbors are primarily students, and working and lower middle class families who are simply trying to function as best they can in a neighborhood that is still buried in many feet of snow.

This debate could go on for eternity, but I think the bottom line is that the city needs a better snow removal strategy, and probably some stricter and more readily enforced regulations concerning parking.

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, and probably some stricter and more readily enforced regulations concerning parking.

In Tokyo, part of registering a car includes providing proof that you either own or are renting a space to park it in. Problem (of an old, densely populated city with narrow streets and minimal on-street parking) solved...

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How well does their work and would it have done better or worse than our T?

So many factors to take into consideration with these simple answers, unfortunately.

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My Dorchester street is also still completely congested with snow mounds. I know it was historic. I know it was crippling. I know snow removal priorities would dictate us to be last on the list. I didn't expect snow removal first or second or third .. but with this amount of snow I did expect it eventually -at least the huge mounds on the corners- but nothing. Those mounds will still be there after Easter. The city definitely needs a better REMOVAL strategy. After all, these storms were no surprise- they were pretty accurately forecast.

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But you are talking 4 storms with over a foot of snow, and two of them over 2 feet, in a 3 week period. That means that everything got reset again and again.

Look, I'm not transportation expert, but looking at how things have been going on, I can tell you that the business districts throughout the city got cleared first. That's where commerce goes on, and since the tax rate for commercial is that much higher, there's something to be said about that. And since this is a priority, that means that after the February 2 storm, they started over, and again after the February 7-9 storm, and yet again after the February 14-15 storm.

Okay, here's where things got slow in my estimation. You go with the major arteries, but how were/are these chosen? Perhaps by vehicle counts, maybe the roads with 2 lanes in each direction get cleared after the roads with one lane each way. It does seem that only in the past week and a half they have been able to get to this. And to be honest, I am glad to see it finally happening. I think in my neck of the woods (Roslindale) we have only one more major road (Cummins Highway) to go.

My hope is that after this, the city actually goes out and deals with the icebergs it slammed into every street corner. That said, these guys aren't volunteering to do this, so I won't be holding my breath. The last stem is finally widening residential streets, but the snow should be gone by then.

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I asked him via Twitter why Belgrade and Centre were cleared before Hyde Park Ave. and he replied that it was different DPW yards and offered to discuss it on the phone if I called him.

I haven't called him FYI, but he'd probably have answers for you if you did.

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