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Washington Street in JP is redlined

Jamaica Plain News reports why there's a red line running down the sidewalk on Washington Street now: It's a protest against housing discrimination.

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Oh, no.

Market rate housing.

The horror.

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"My name is Dave, I didn't read the article, but I'm assuming it's liberals being liberal about something, so watch me pithily dismiss it!"

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I got the phrase "market rate housing" from TFA, bozo.

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Using an athletic field chalk spreader is pretty inspired. I don't know the area all that well -- is there a visible difference today inside/outside of the red lined border if one was to walk around? If so it's a pretty great way to show the real world effect of decades of "invest/lend" vs. "redline/ignore"

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The red "paint" is from bricks from buildings in the area that have been torn down that they crushed into a powder.

Definitely some creative and powerful imagery here.

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It's not comprehensible in any way. And if Boston had suffered wide-scale urban renewal like the West End, where neighborhoods were actually razed, then maybe the brick dust idea would have been clever, but it wasn't. Especially since the group is opposing new building, not decrying destruction.

And no, the red areas today have very little in common. The largest red area on the map covers a swath that includes parts of JP, Roxbury, Dorchester, the South End, Mission Hill, what's now Northeastern...None of these were black neighborhoods at the time, just poor and/or rundown--the city didn't have a really sizable black population until the 1940s-50s. There was certainly all kinds of racist housing discrimination that came later and years of ethnicity-based territorial squabbling but to use this map as some kind of basis of proof for discriminatory redlining seems bizarre. Different neighborhoods evolved in very different ways. Not to mention they don't begin to explain what zoning variances or current policies are discriminatory today. Oh--and 3200 Washington? On the yellow part of the map, not the red.

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Sorry, truth hurts. Victim of foreclosure? You singed the documents. It is on you. That's life.

As far as the redlining goes, this organization is protesting a system created before my grandparents were married, and I'm middle aged in some eyes. If you look really close at the map the map includes the South End and Chinatown plus good chunks of JP and Mission Hill. Places where one can get a mortgage with no problem today, providing you have the ability to pay.

Was there redlining in Boston? Of course there was. Redlning by the Yankee and in some cases Jewish bankers of this city. Go back and see who was running the First National Bank, Boston Five Cents, Charlestown Savings, The Provident, Shawmut, Rockland-Atlas, Dorchester Savings, Grove Hall Bank in the 50's and 60's. It wasn't the sons of sharecroppers from Alabama, it wasn't people from the Domican, and it wasn't guys from Southie. Redlining in fact also had big supporters from liberal groups in this city because it allowed people who couldn't afford a house in one area get a discounted mortgage in another. Do you really think Mattapan and Roxbury went from being mostly Jewish to mostly black in 25 years because of magic?

Everyone who is qualified can get a mortgage today. Keep living in the past and you will be stuck in the past. Save your money, buy a house you can afford, and be prudent. Worked for me.

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Honestly to understand redlining, one must also understand block busting. And there was quite a bit of redlining and block busting in Boston.

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These may or may not be the same people, but...

One Carolyn Lomax took out mortgages on two different properties in Dorchester in 2004 and then refinanced twice on each for more than what she paid for the houses. Boo hoo.

One Marshall Cooper took out three mortgages each time going above what was paid for the property in Dorchester in 1997, 2000, and 2002. Previous to that one Marshall Cooper had owned property in Mattapan and Hyde Park going back to 1978.

Hard to get mortgages I guess, maybe, so let's protest anyway. Why hasn't Bruce Marks parachuted into this mess yet? There were cameras and no Bruce Marks! For gawd sakes they went right by his old office which he wouldn't leave even though somebody was developing housing with an affordable component on it.

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They redlined her in that way.

Or is it red-numbered?

Nevermind, unfair anyway.

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This has less to do with the ability to get a mortgage but the real issue of housing discrimination whereby non-whites, who for the sake of the argument, could afford a mortgage were not given a mortgage due to discriminatory practices.

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It amazes me sometimes that people trying to protest to the people in power, don't go where the people in power are.

One of the things I respected about Occupy Boston / Black Lives Matter was that they knew how to create chaos. Block traffic along Amory Street? Big deal. Try to block the Pike? You have everyone's attention.

Former non-white mortgage recipients (Read: They got mortgages and screwed them up, they weren't discriminated against) like the people in the article would have a far better effective message if they blocked Washington Street in Wellesley, Main Street in Hingham, and Beacon Street in Newton Center to get their message across to the people who can help them, not by going up and down through Egleston Square. This protest was like taking umbrage with new polo rules by marching through Fields Corner.

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Redlining is surreptitious race-based neighborhood-based housing policy.

Writing liar loan mortgages used to be good business for the mortgage companies because they had no skin in the game when the mortgage went south. Now they do.

Minority neighborhoods were targeting for marketing liar loan mortgages, oftentimes to people who didn't have the experience to understand the loans were not sustainable given their income, and just as important that foreclosure means losing much if not all of the families' wealth. Add to that banks foreclosing illegally and you come up with $8 trillion dollars of middle class wealth lost during the great recession.

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"This was the history City Life wanted to teach people: that discrimination can be subtle, manifesting as zoning variances and civic policy."

The piece's aim is not as narrow as mortgages. They are shining a light on how policies don't have to explicitly single out a group of people in order to effectively target them.

Other examples of these types of insidious practices include voter ID laws and political redistricting. Both of which are age-old and ongoing problems.

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They've created a "public art project" that to virtually everyone who sees it looks like either vandalism or an extensive accident.

They are waving a map from 1934 alleging that it shows the long history of racial redlining in Boston when there were virtually no black people in Boston at that time--the population was something like 3%. Roxbury and Dorchester were definitely not black neighborhoods at that time. There were no doubt racist housing policies and neighborhood housing issues but the map shows more that poor and rundown neighborhoods came in all shades. 3200 Washington was, I'm pretty sure, still a tough, poor Irish/German/immigrant neighborhood in 1934.

Lastly--there's zero attempt to clarify what current day policies they're objecting to or connecting to redlining. Is there some new redlining going on? Zoning policies? Which ones?

As protest art, I'd say this is a fail.

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I think the history of redlining shouldn't be glossed over, but I think there are too many histrionics with this. To whit-

Said resident Ken Tilton, “This simple red line shows a history that has decided to this day who can stay, who has to go and who has access and who is denied entry.”

Were that true, the African-American, Haitian-American, Hispanic American, Italian-American, and Irish-American families who own houses I can see from my house must not exist, since some of the people would be on one side of the line unable to buy property on my side of the line, and I don't live in Jamaica Plain.

That there is subtle discrimination in real estate is not some thing I will deny, but it is not the 1930s any longer. Blacks, whites, Asians, and Hispanics live everywhere in Boston. It's a fact, not history.

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It only took about 5-6 years for Boston Banks Urban Renewal to turn Wellington Hill in Mattapan from a mainly Jewish neighborhood to a predominantly African- American one.

It is an ugly history of failed federal programming, blockbusting and red-lining with the only winners being the real estate brokers.

Read "The Death of an American Jewish Community: A Tragedy of Good Intentions", if you want to learn the history.

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As far as the map used by the activists. Wellington Hill was yellow, not red, just like most of Boston (excepting the areas in red, of course.)

That said, I agree with you 100%.

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would show a very different city--almost unimaginably so--from 1934, though maybe fewer demographic changes than if you dialed the clock forward another thirty years. The transformation of Dorchester/Mattapan from a Jewish to a black neighborhood happened, I'm pretty sure, in less than a decade--voooom.

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"Urban Exodus" by Gerald Gamm is another good piece, it's a critique of "Death of Community" in a way - doesn't try to recast the Jewish history of Mattapan, but puts the process in a broader context and compares and tries to reconcile the experience of Jews in Roxbury and Mattapan that left with the experience of Irish Catholics in redlined areas in Dorchester that largely remained in the area and dives deeper into the black and West Indian experience during the period. If you don't want to read the whole book, the NY Times Book Review has a long and interesting write-up that's easy to find on google.

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This area has enormous amounts of public/affordable housing already. It's not clear to me what they are asking for. That nothing else get built in the area?

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I think we saw a pretty good example in 2008 of what happens when the banks give out mortgages to anyone with a heartbeat.

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In 2008, we saw what happened when mortgage brokers and real-estate lawyers abandoned ethical and/or legal responsibilities and arranged large numbers of fraudulent loans from lenders who maybe stopped doing the kind of diligence they should have. At least, here in Boston.

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The Community Reinvestment Act pretty much demanded that banks hand out mortgages to anyone with a pulse in some areas with the expected results as soon as there was an economic downturn.

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...and what was the net effect? Borrowers being unable to pay for homes they couldn't afford. Foreclosures rampant.

So should we return to those practices...this time in the name of equality of course?

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One could say the same about the borrower.

If you know you can only afford to purchase a $300k, but buy a $500k home, that's on you. It's no different than kids complaining that they only make $30k year after getting a masters from a $45k per year private college in creative writing.

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Redlining had nothing to do with whether somebody could afford a mortgage of a certain amount.

Redlining banned black people from getting mortgages just about anywhere.

The issue wasn't "what can you afford" - the issue was "we won't loan you money due to your heritage".

That is a very different issue from what happened later, when fraudulent loans were made to get fees by falsifying people's paperwork.

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I was responding to Adams comment regarding the 2008 market collapse.

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that they are being discriminated against when applying for mortgages? Or they are just protesting something that happened 80 years ago?

Either way, I am confused.

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No wonder you are confused. This wasn't 80 years ago. More like up to 20-30 years ago. It affected a large number of Vietnam vets who returned from service only to be denied house sales in non-red lined neighborhoods and denied mortgages in red-lined neighborhoods.

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Nam was how long ago in swirly world?

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Mortgage benefits for returning soldiers went up into the 1980s.

Housing discrimination and redlining practices held sway well into the 1980s.

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That's right, it is always someone else's fault. Blame the bank, blame the brokers, but don't take any personnal responsibility for your own actions. Who signed on the dotted line? Adam, your excuse sounds like the woman in this story:
http://usatodayhss.com/2015/family-of-nj-player-who-used-helmet-to-hit-o...

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But this is hardly as one sided as you think. You might want to Google something like

Dorchester flipped condos convicted

and see what pops up.

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this isn't an extension of the Freedom Trail?

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IMAGE(http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldop1zL3Vg1qd6tjeo1_1280.jpg)

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So remember that sign...

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Uncle Ned's too!

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If an applicant has a secure income, good credit, and can pay the monthly payments, I don't see why they can't get a mortgage from a bank. Then again, what do I know as I rent (which can be just as difficult)!!

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Greenlined, just like any street in Boston or anywhere else for that matter. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, yellow or purple as long as you have enough green in your wallet.

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I tracked down the map in question. It has nothing to do with redlining, B-BURG, or anything else. If he map was valid, we'd be talking about Grove Hall being as white as Roslindale while Port Norfolk and the St. Ann's part of Dorchester would be the basically what Mattapan ended up being.

I mean, if they were serious about redlining in Boston, they'd track down the B-BURG map showing blacks allowed to buy on the other side of Franklin Park than where their "art display went.

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Whether or not redlining is a contemporary issue, there are ongoing effects of it, such as access to quality public schools. (Let me just note that by quality schools I mean schools that produce high average test scores on standardized MCAS test.)

Education Redlining in Boston Public Schools

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Or it's effects. I will note that the map they used does not reflect redlining. Or are they (or you) claiming that the west side of Southie went from all white to all black in the 1950s and 1960s? I can't wait until they paint the red line through the middle of Southie.

Seriously, look at the map they reference.

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Different argument, similar result if valid.

1968–Present: Housing Discrimination:

Through testing, the FHCGB has found that: African Americans and Latinos experience discrimination in half of their attempts to rent, purchase, or finance homes in greater Boston.

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But I don't thnk you grasp the "line" part of redlining, and that the line they painted had no relation to real estate practices in Boston at any point in its history.

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IMAGE(http://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/boston_busing_ap_img.jpg)

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South Boston High has put more in the Marine Corps than college. You must be confused with Lincoln-Sudbury or Milton Academy.

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That map ispertinent to "redlining" in Boston. It's not a racial map per se, but those security levels would later serve as the foundation for issuance (or non-issuance) of mortgages - it's not bullshit it at all, that map (and the umpteen variations of it for near all urban areas) is the foundational document if you will for what redlining would become. FWIW, some parts of "white" areas in Dorchester were actually redlined, but the Irish Catholic residents remained while Jewish residents fled, probably in no small part to the fact that the Catholic church is fairly sedentary and places a far greater emphasis on territorial parishes than more decentralized and congregation-based (not territory-based) Jewish religious organizations. I think you're being too harsh here.

All of people (and I'm sure some the marchers even) conflate redlining with BBURG's actions, when they were two distinct developments and separated by years. In some ways, BBURG sought to alleviate the ills of redlining, but ended up making the situation worse and further inflamed block busting tendencies of some particularly aggressive landlords.

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The protest that used the map made it key.

The map was only concerned with insurance rates. There was no connection with race. I'm sure if they were concerned with redlining, they could have found a better set of boundaries in Boston.

If you look close enough at the map, you'd see that Needham by the Newton line was in red, yet somehow Needham was developed in that area. Somehow people were able to get insurance, even in the west side of Southie.

I fault B-BURG only in that they worked on the idea that there was a certain area where black people would be allowed, the assumption being that blacks would not be able to buy houses outside of that area. Yes, as noted above Gamm makes a good case as to why there would be resistance amongst the Catholics- people talk about Mattapan, but no one notes how slow the process went around St. Angela's.

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One of the ways redlining still has a lasting impact is because of the opportunity to build equity/wealth (by owning a home) that was denied to generations of African-Americans, here and elsewhere. Very simple, generalized example: You are about 45 years old. Your white working-class grandparents were able to buy a modest home in the 1930s or 1940s, maybe with your grandfather's union wages. When they died your parents inherited it and lived in it (since it was paid off they lived in it for free, so they could use their money for other things) or sold it and made a little cash, which they then either invested or used to buy a new house. When they died you inherited it and now housing costs have exploded, so grandma's $20K house in JP is now worth $800K.

(By the way, black people were also barred from joining most trade unions back in that heyday, another way that this group of working-class people were denied access to upward mobility. Similarly, Social Security legislation was passed with Southern support only because job categories that were mostly black, like domestic and agricultural labor, were deemed ineligible. Same with the GI Bill -- a lot of black veterans were not able to take advantage after WWII. Redlining took place in the context of all this other stuff. Thus your black grandparents very possibly not only had no real estate, but also no free college tuition, no social security, no union pension, and no health insurance.)

You sell the house and now you are basically set for retirement. Or you rent it out for $4000/month, which is almost all profit, and pays your own mortgage on a $600K condo in Brookline, which in about 6 years is worth $800K. Then you walk around patting yourself on the back for being such a smart person. (And in fact along the way you did learn a lot about real estate and investing, because you had the money to play with and the attitude that doing so was your right.)

I mean, just look at the real estate transactions in the newspaper. There are ALWAYS houses being sold in "desirable" neighborhoods for $1. These are almost always a child or grandchild taking over a property from a parent or Grandma. A very nice Greek guy across the street from me in Rozzie got his triple-decker this way. (Roslindale is the home of several generations of Greek immigrants.) He rents out 2 of the apts for a decent price, lives in the 3rd apt, and keeps the place up -- he's no slumlord. And if he wants to retire in style, similar buildings in Rozzie now sell for around $1 million. If the place was condo-ized, each apt would probably go for at least $500K.

This story was denied to many, many black people in Boston and across the U.S. because of the legacy of redlining. It's very difficult to build family wealth without real estate (especially when you're stuck in redlined areas where the rent is actually HIGHER than it is in white neighborhoods, and the condition of your slumlord-owned housing is terrible, which, among other things, then affects your health and your kids' health and has -- just like owning real estate -- multigenerational effects).

The past IS connected to the present. Redlining was part of generations of economic discrimination against black people that affects everyday life in Boston to this day. I think that's what this project is pointing out.

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There are areas in Boston where African Americans were allowed to buy property, which were worth next to nothing (think South End, Fort Hill) are now worth a lot.

Don't take this to mean I don't think black people got screwed when it came to housing in Boston. And definitely the means to buy property, even within the areas allowed, was limited by low wages offered to African Americans, but going by your theory, my grandfather, who immigrated to work in the kitchen at Boston City Hospital, would have made better investment in a row house in the South End or Fort Hill (assuming of course that the family sold the properties at the same time) which were in the areas when black people lived than the 2 family in Dorchester he ended up buying.

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That would be so awesome if I had inherited something from my grandmother beyond a few pieces of fostoria and a nasty disposition.

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