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All-male club at Harvard says its ban on woman helps reduce sexual attacks
By adamg on Wed, 04/13/2016 - 3:31pm
UPDATE: Turns out the letter writer is also the president of Harpoon Brewery, who serves as a graduate official of the club. He's written an apology, says he didn't really mean what he wrote, but then says people misinterpreted what he wrote, but in any case, whatever it is he wrote shouldn't reflect on Harpoon.
Yes, indeed, you can always tell a Harvard man, you just can't tell him much: In a note to the Crimson, the graduate president of the Harvardiest of the Harvard "final clubs" is telling the school to back the hell off and stop trying to make it accept women students as members because, among other things:
Forcing single gender organizations to accept members of the opposite sex could potentially increase, not decrease the potential for sexual misconduct.
The president of the Porcellian Club writes this is in part because only club members can use the club's off-campus clubhouse, and so obviously, no woman's going to be raped if she's not allowed inside, not that any club member would ever act as anything other than a gentleman in the presence of a lady, as borne out by the fact that no club member has ever been formally accused of the sort of reprehensible behavior the university is concerned about. He did not explain the contradiction inherent in his statements, however.
The Crimson continues that the president thinks the matter has become enough of a crisis that he's been forced to issue the club's first official statement to a newspaper since its founding in 1791.
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Comments
They've got a point. The
They've got a point. The catholic church doesn't allow female priests and they have a spotless sexual conduct record...
Yet catholic priests might be fierce competition for Harvard…
…at least Father Guido claims he can replace a Harvard degree for $20 in about 5 minutes :D
Does the Average College Graduate Know More than a Catholic Priest Could Teach in Five Minutes?
Honestly is the best policy
Look, these nice young men are being honest and open about the fact they just can't keep their hands to themselves and would likely rape any women who would have the misfortune to be in a private, enclosed space with them.
We should respect their honestly!
True dat...
....and so do castrations!
So what they're saying: Idiots
So what they're saying is that their organization is full of a bunch of idiots that cannot be trusted to behave and not assault women, so they have to keep the women out. Why would anyone even want to associate with a university that allows reasoning like this on their campus?
So, I've been typing, then
So, I've been typing, then erasing my sentences because I am trying to relay just how baffled I am by his statement. I don't think he actually thought out what kind of message he's saying about his members, and apparently, their propensity towards sexual assault and rape.
Like, women join and rape happens? What. Way to try to absolve yourself of any sort of responsibility while simultaneously letting everyone know the stay 500ft away from you and your buddies because lord knows that y'all would do if ladies passed your vision.
No he is saying
That there are no downhill skiing injuries in Florida and no alligator attacks in the Yukon.
If women aren't there, they cannot get raped.
This is a lawyer-ly answer.
Just lock the door
Think of how many bad things could be avoided if they simply prohibited anyone from entering the building.
Well hell...
...shoot em all in the fucking head and voilá! None of them will die of cancer!
So do you walk to school or do you bring a lunch?
A rational response
To an emotional dispute frequently misses the mark. Seriously, has this guy never been married? Never had kids? It isn't so hard.
Yes, it is absurd to suggest that sexual assault of females could be reduced by inviting females to a space that is currently male-only. No, that is not how you say it.
You say something like:
"We wholeheartedly support Harvard's efforts to reduce sexual violence and will be happy to lend our voices, ideas, and resources to this campaign.
"Our pig club is proud of its perfect record and its perfect gentlemen, and we expect every member to serve as a model of civilized comportment. We will be happy to help guide other societies and young men as part of Harvard's efforts.
"We remain determined to provide a safe space for our members, and for this reason we do not permit non-members to enter the club. At present, all our members are male, and we do not have plans at present for changing that or other traditions. Someday our members may choose to admit women as members, but we would oppose any imposed solution to a problem that does not exist in our club."
But up and swallowing your foot up to the knee is much more amusing.
What a D-Bag
Is the next sentence of this letter something like - "Indeed, this is why we have written to you each year since 1879 to express our grave reservations with regard to establishment of the Annex (referred to by some now as Radcliffe College) and on the first of each month since 1977 to request that women be given back their dignity by once again separating the admissions departments of Harvard College and the later-established institution."
Harpoon Brewery
Your post and the linked article left out that the gentleman Mr. Storey making these comments is also the current President of Harpoon Brewery. I love their beer but.....
Washington Post has that nugget: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/13/secretive-...
Huh, my tastebuds have always
Huh, my tastebuds have always rejected their beer. It's like they knew I was sipping evil.
Time for a new beer!
There are many widely-available quality beers out there--it may be time to vote your conscience with your dollars.
I'd love to see their club
I'd love to see their club guidelines on allowing gays to join. I thought Harvard tried to portay itself to the world that it is all inclusive? Maybe they need to take classes on tolerance and diversity and broaden their ignorant minds.
The Elitism is strong at Harvard
Harvard has all of these secret societies because how else do you know who is MOST ELITE? Any old schmo on the street with a brain can apply and possibly get into Harvard, but you really have to be someone important to get invited to join an OMG seekrit society.
Chutzpah!
Well played, sir... well played!
Dear Harvards,
Way to COMPLETELY miss the point of the entire study! Excluding women creates the power dynamic that is. the. problem!!
Ugh, I can't even.
ARE YOU FUC-ING FOREAL
SMFH, and this came from of the allege smartest students on earth. We are in big trouble if every male think like these idoits. These statements are scary, distrubing, and upseting.
An update ...
I've updated the original post with a link to an apology from the president of Harpoon Brewery, who it turns out went to Harvard and was a member of that club, and wrote that letter to the Crimson and now really wishes he hadn't broken the club's centuries of silence to write that letter.
Harpoon was my favorite beer
Until today. What an a-hole. Until this idiot is gone from Harpoon, I'm not going to put any more money in his pocket, starting tonight, when I planned to have 2 or 3 Harpoons at the Celtics game. But there are plenty of other good beers in the world.
Apology not accepted. At least now we know what he really thinks about women, and men.
Yes Sir!
I'm done with harpoon. Used to drink cases of it a year. No more.
I would normally be quick to
I would normally be quick to swallow anything spewed out of a Harpoon bunghole, but this is just stupid. Add me to the list of people not buying Harpoon now.
Harpoon...how could you....
Yeah, they have good beer, but not quite the hardship to give it up. There's a lot of good local beer out there. Trillium right down the street from them, in fact. So fuck 'em. No more Leviathan for me.
PR Problem
Wow, that is a really bad PR issue brewing for Harpoon. But seriously folks, that's not good for Harpoon. You've been great tonight Las Vegas!
I'm sorry...
...I got caught and called out.
Apology!
Never drinking Harpoon again.
Never drinking Harpoon again.
Harpooned
My favorite beer, damn it.
At least I get to spend the weekend looking for its replacement!
Some background:
Some background:
The Porcellian Club is the snobbiest of the snobby. FDR wasn't qualified to become a member.
Unlike most of the rest of the clubs, they don't host parties. Their clubhouse is open to members only. So technically it is true that Harvard's effort to reduce the risk of women being assaulted at final club parties by making the clubs co-ed could not have its intended effect at this club.
I see a lot of hasty pitchforks
The guy really should have known he was in a minefield covered by snipers, when he tried to respond to some suggestion that making the club go coed would reduce sexual assault. He walked right into that.
Minefield, covered by snipers, followed up by a mob of pitchfork-wielding peasants whipped into a frenzy.
Never buying Harpoon again
If no-one (male or female, but especially male) ever drank alcohol, there wouldn't be so much sexual assault either.
He can whinge all day long about his freedom of speech, but my freedom of money allows me to deny my spendy foldy cash to companies that are carriers of severe foot-in-mouth disease.
Does he think women don't buy things? Does he believe we don't make purchasing decisions about beer and cider?
I liked Harpoon products and buying local gave me the warm fuzzies, but that's over now, forever.
Nice job, MRA creep. Your secret rape society clearly prepared you well for relating to more than half the potential customers on this planet.
My suggestion to Harvard Single Gender Clubs:
Hold all of your meetings in north carolina bathrooms if you want to maintain status quo
Title IX?
Seems like Harvard is running afoul of Title IX by letting these clubs continue to exist. To even things out, they'll need to create an exclusive club that only allows women with no control of their own actions to engage in vaguely homoerotic rituals rooted in Masonic tradition, and put Jim Koch in charge of it.
Title IX
Does not affect the clubs. The clubs are all independent of Harvard. They are not on the campus. They receive no federal funding, and no funding from Harvard. They are self-funded, relying on very rich alumni. They are just near Harvard, and the members attend or attended Harvard.
The most Harvard could do regarding the pig club is board up the corresponding (McKean) gate to the yard, thereby making members walk farther.
(edit) It looks like I'm wrong on that. Harvard could go full-out HUAC on members, and punish them in unrelated ways for their off-campus associations. Are you now or have you ever been a member of a finals club? Next target: fraternities?
If such a club as you propose were to form near Harvard, buy or rent its own property, and refuse to allow men in the club, that would be... well, something that's already been done. There are five female-only final clubs "at" Harvard. I am not certain whether the administration has insisted they accept male members, but I imagine everybody here would like to join in a chorus of ridicule for the idea that refusing to allow men in a female-only finals club would reduce sexual assault.
Personally, I think final clubs are a terrible idea, mostly because I would never join a club that would have me as a member.
i think there are times where being with your own gender
makes people more comfortable
and other people should respect that, irrespective of which gender a club belongs to.
i dont see it to be all that different from essentially forcing somebody who is transgender to use the wrong bathroom, actually. the fact of the matter is, exceptions are made for this sort of thing all the time, and even those considerably more inclined for social justice than i take no umbrage with the exceptions that i have seen.
i will say this though, if these single gender clubs are eliminated i hope that is the first step towards unseparating mens and womens sports.
Compare soc.motss !
Compare soc.motss ! the old, vicious, bitter, hysterical, narcissism, guilt, shame
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/08/online_gay_cult...
I think you're missing the point
You're missing the point. There are valid arguments to be made for same-gender environments. This letter makes exactly none of them.
im not missing the point
im addressing the larger issue
ill tell you when i've missed the point, kid
Harvard dean gets tough
The Crimson follows up with a report on a tense meeting between final-club officials and Dean of the College Rakesh Khurana - at which Khurana floated the idea of barring members of single-sex clubs from Harvard fellowships and honors such as serving as captains of sports teams.
Compare Porcellian... with Signet Society
Compare Porcellian... with Signet Society
https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/4eprhp/president_of_harpoon_bre...
Harpoon Brewery leader thinks little of his fellow man
Personally, I don't know ANY man who would be inclined toward sexually assaulting a woman just because they are in the presence of females. This guy clearly thinks men have no integrity, self control or morals. I beg to differ.
They absolutely should allow
They absolutely should allow women to join. Good, I'm glad to hear that they're also making the womens-only clubs into coed clubs and "female-only safe spaces" into "non-gender-specific safe spaces" that admit both genders, right? Because that would only make sense. It's terribly disingenuous to complain about your gender being excluded from the other gender's "safe spaces" when you're perfectly fine with the concept of your gender retaining its own gender-specific "safe spaces" that are off-limits to the other gender.
That would be akin to an all-African American pressure group not allowing whites as members or to even sit in on their conventions and meetings yet that same pressure group trying mightily to advocate for integrating some whites-only organization. You can't have it both ways. Or let me rephrase that. You CAN have it both ways, just don't expect anyone with any common sense to take you seriously.
sigh
well the first part of your handle seem appropriate.
And the part about "just don't expect anyone with any common sense to take you seriously."