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Attention MBTA experts:
By CopleyScott17 on Thu, 10/06/2016 - 7:34am
When obnoxious delinquent hooligans bellow their way on to the Green Line at Babcock Street after school (not to point a finger at the Match Charter Public School, but yeah), are the drivers allowed to tell them to STFU? Can T cops or real cops be summoned? Do intimidated senior citizens and full-fare-paying commuters have any recourse other than jamming into the front of the car and ceding the rear to the brats ? Sadly, this is not a hypothetical question.
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Comments
By doing nothing about it...
...it sounds like the riders are already ceding their rear to the brats.
TL;DR
Across town they do this
When all the Boston Latin kids crowd on to the ~3:00pm Needham train at Ruggles, they are assigned to their own boisterous student-only car. Before I knew this, I tried to board the kid car and the kindly conductor came over and said that I should move up front to the "normal" car. It's the way things are done and it works well for everyone. The Green Line should try the same thing.
Just be careful
Not to assume that all kids sitting next to each other are part of the same group...then you might get scolded by a millennial and be the subject of a Facebook post.
Just be careful
not to assume anyone's done maintenance on any infrastructure around here... you might find out a selfish me-first Baby Boomer decided to defer all such things until other folks would pay for it.
Of course, their need for constant coddling of their fragile self-image means we can't talk about their mistakes on social media.
We knew it!
The above two posts confirm what many of us already know: that we reasonable GenXers really are caught up in the middle, and because of our relatively small numbers, we are getting screwed.
Testify Brother!
.
We exist!
And I'd like to thank the millennials for taking our "worthless" label, and the boomers for staying old.
If I could keep voting for you guys I would.
And if that happened,
then someone might then feel the need to publicly broadcast their butthurt-by-proxy for thousands of people to read, in a pique of indignation not unlike that of my three-year-old daughter when we won't let her watch a second episode of Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. Recoil at the spectacle of bosguy22 crawling out of his burrow, blinking angrily at the sun, and spewing the incoherent wailing bile for which he is so well known. Watch his tiny fists flail angrily against the wall!
Anyway, to the original point: be ye warned, anon. Grave consequences await you if do stupid racist shit, get caught at it, and are then publicly shamed for being an indefatigable bag of dicks. You might be forced to feel bad, or endure the indignation of the internet.
Green != Orange
Two cars vs. many cars - not sure this is practical.
I wish
I wish they would do that on the Greenbush train. The BC High kids ride our train and are obnoxious. When I asked the conductor why they couldn't be put into their own car he said it wasn't practical, there were too many of them, etc etc. Once in a while we get a good conductor who won't let the kids into the quiet car, but even that doesn't happen all the time. People have tried complaining to the school, to the T, to Keolis, etc but nobody really cares.
If the Old Colony had been around back in the day
BC High would have put a couple of the old school Jesuits on that train .
Problem solved-- after one ride. Unfortunately, now there are no Jesuits, old school or otherwise.
When I was there, complaints came in about kids being a little too rambunctious on the platform at Columbia, as JFK/UMass was then called, after 2:20 dismissal. The whole student body was notified & told to simmer down during morning announcements. The Prefect of Discipline strolled the platform making pleasantries until after 3 for one school week. There were no further complaints.
If you really had a problem
If you really had a problem with it you would uber to your destination
Send in the creepy clowns. If
Send in the creepy clowns. If there any survivors, feed them Kaboom cereal. If they still haven't given up on life, send them on a field trip to the Statehouse.
Call the cops?
Are they being loud or are people being assaulted? If people are getting physically harmed, then yes, of course. The driver (or you) should call the T Police.
Of course, you and other adults could intervene on behalf of your fellow passengers. These are kids after all. They don't have special powers.
Kids suck sometimes. They get really obnoxious, especially with their friends to egg them on.
But, I hesitate to introduce the criminal justice system into an area a couple of adults could correct.
I can't tell you how many times I've been on that line with loud and obnoxious BU kids on their way into town to get even more wasted. Not once have I ever thought about calling the cops. I have had to tell a couple of them who got too close that I don't play.
Seriously
I'm pretty sure that being loud and annoying is not yet a crime. Part of the joy (?) of public transit is that sometimes it's gonna be nice and quiet and sometimes it's gonna be obnoxiously loud. I've certainly told out of control teens to simmer down in the past. After a little grumbling, they usually do. If I don't feel like being the designated grownup, then I just ignore 'em.
PS And sometimes I wonder if I even have a right to ask anyone to pipe down. Is my desire for peace any more valid than their desire for shenanigans?
Yes you do.
The only thing that everyone can share on public transportation is peace and quiet. In your neighborhood you have a right to peace and quiet. Same applies to public transportation or a doctor's office.
There is ample room for conversations at reasonable levels, listening to music or videos via earbuds and headphones (so long as they don't bleed) or any other activity that can generate sound but at a level that can be contained and which does not trespass on your right to quiet enjoyment.
Folks who are yelling at each other, talking loudly on their cell phones, playing videos or music on their phones loud enough that others can hear the sound, are all trespassing on every other person's space. They are stealing the one thing that we can all share in common: a peaceful and relatively quiet use of public transportation.
What is the best model? When public transporation was used before any electronic devices existed.
tattle
Agree with the above statement - have some adults tell them to keep it civil. Being loud is sort of a tough crap deal imo, but frequently kids do more than just laugh and yell -- it starts to get physical or take up more space and that should be shut down. But admittedly you'd have to gauge the situation if you want to take it on. Another arrow in the quiver is to call up the school you suspect they're from and tell them to keep their monsters in-line or you'll vote No on 2 or whatever. No school (public or charter - but especially charter) wants to have their name sullied by obnoxious behavior.
Not just BU....
I occasionally have to ride inbound from Babcock on a Friday or Saturday night and many of the "l and o" college kids are already on board before Babcock, which suggests at least some of them are from BC.
Stick Screaming-In-Your-Face
Stick Screaming-In-Your-Face Jesus Guy and Homophobic Screaming Jesus Woman in the kiddie car as well.
Just made me LOL
The last time I was stuck on a car with screaming Jesus guy he was lecturing a very polite young man about how his dreadlocks were a sign of woman-ish vanity. The guy was so sweet and laid back but I wanted to clobber him--he just does.not.stop.
Unfortunately, no
In this age of diversity, a time where the crime of hurting somebody's feelings is more serious than selling heroin, the emasculated police, the T Drivers, and anyone who you'd think you could turn to for help will get fired if they violate the feelings of thugs, spoiled brats, or any of the other self-proclaimed victims of society. Cops can't wear leather jackets anymore because they make some people afraid. This is what it's come to. There are signs all over the place that say "If you see something, say something", but if you say something about a member of the protected class, you end up being tagged as a racist, bigot, bully, homophobe, or any of the other many titles that the crybabies have come up with. I don't blame cops who come to work and hide out. If they don't, they run the risk of losing their jobs or worse. If I'm a bus driver, I'd be there to drive the bus and that's it. These are bad times we're in. Common sense along with good employees have been thrown to the wolves.
Thanks!
It's nice to see a racist, bigot, bully, homophobe identify himself. I applaud your self-knowledge.
Agree - Why bother
You speak up, and then the iphones come out. The students confront your concerns with colorful language & a potential assault. You'll then find yourself on a viral internet video being the recepient of this behavior.
Show us these cops who are
Show us these cops who are "losing their jobs or worse". The only reason cops are very, very occasionally losing their jobs is because people have cell phone cameras now, so cops beating and shooting people is sometimes documented, which sometimes leads to them getting in trouble, but more often than not they just get a paid vacation(they prefer to call it suspended with pay). If anyone is the "protected class" it is the cops, who whine like babies anytime someone suggests they be held to any sort of standard or law or just plain old do their job correctly.
And these aren't bad times we are in. Violent crime is way down. Violence against cops are way down. Cops don't even crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US. Fox News is skewing your reality.
lol
The stab in the back that is "this age of diversity." Oh man, you sound fun.
"emasculated police"
Oh my. I bet you frequently post rants about "beta males" on other forums.
Oh, boy. Here we go.
Thugs. Spoiled Brats. Self-proclaimed victims of society. Crybabies. Did I miss anything?
While I will not address most of the mishmash which is your post, if you say something against a "protected" class (and, yes, there are very good reasons why the class is called "protected") that is racist or homophobic in nature, by way of just one example, you will be taken to task. And rightly so.
You might of missed this:
http://www.jamaicaplainnews.com/2016/10/04/mass-ag-american-legion-post-...
I guess some of those black folks are all of the above, huh?
We live in good times, actually. It is some people, who do bad things, that create any badness in the wold.
be an adult
and tell them to shut up if you find them disruptive.
I'm sure it's not as simple as that
If you tell one person to be quiet, the rest may chime in. Is the person complaining a different race than the person being noisy? That could make the scene even more tense.
No, it is that simple
I've done it many times. One thing about being a kid is that you often don't know how loud you got or how obnoxious your energy level/enthusiasm is until called on it.
Here's another idea: physical activity in the schools. Enough of this academics all the time long day nonsense - it doesn't work anyway because Kids need to move! If they have more opportunities to move and run and run off all this energy, they won't be so energetic and loud after school!
The last time I asked some
The last time I asked some kids to please be quiet as nicely as possible, one of them (a girl, mind you!) yelled in the middle of the train, "YOU JUST DON'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE!". Then they got even louder exchanging the N word, the F word, and all kinds of words in between laughter with each other. Jesus. You can't win. It's great to have your toddler exposed to such shit.
Do you even hear yourself, bro?
First of all, this "senior citizens and full-fare-paying commuters" is nonsense.
Seniors pay less. Students pay less. The blind don't pay at all. That's good public policy, and it has nothing to do with this issue. You sound like one of those "I pay XXX in taxes, so you have to listen to my selfish rant" types when you use a line like that.
Secondly, I wonder: are the senior citizens intimidated because these 15 year olds are loud, or because they're black? Similarly, which of the two results in them being "delinquent hooligans?"
Just wondering.
Yikes, talk about knee-jerkiness!
Why are you bringing race into the conversation. Please don't.
As for "senior citizens" and "full-fare-paying commuters" -- two different things. You can tell by the conjunction between the phrases. Anyway, I was talking about two of the many constituencies that may be bothered by the behavior under discussion.
They'd better stay off my lawn
dammit..
'real cops"
One note: the MBTA police are very real cops - they attend a police academy and have the power to arrest and shoot you if they have to. They also have the second biggest jurisdiction in MA after the State Police. They are trained to handle the same threats to the public as much as any other enforcement organization. They also have responsibility for miles of underground tunnels - that's not for the faint of heart.
Avoid the T
when the kiddies leave school, it's at most letting two trains go by. Reschedule your routine, you will never 'win' this battle.
I second this strategy....
if you can, avoid the 20 minute or so timeframe during which most of the Match students will be leaving school. If you happen to be a BU employee you are fortunate to have the option of taking the BU shuttle, which boards at the far end of Harry Aggainis Way, and stops at Kenmore Square. This is a private shuttle service for the use of the BU community, and once every blue moon they do actually check IDs.
Di kinder veln zayn kinder!
What is this talk of being racist here? I ride home on the Redline everyday around the time that schools are getting out. There are a ton of kids riding the train being loud, being obnoxious, fooling around and such. Hell, I literally saw a wrestling match on the floor of the train earlier this week. You know what? It sucks. It suuuuuucks being on that train. But you know what else, they are just being kids. That's what kids do. They're cooped up in class all day and they're just letting off some of that energy. No sane adult would voluntarily choose to ride on a school bus everyday but that's life in our city. I don't think that to complain about it raises to the level of raw undisguised bigotry nor intergenerational conflict. At the same time it's just one of those things a person has to deal with, kids are just going to be kids.
You lost me at
"obnoxious delinquent hooligans". That being said, unless the "hooligans" are harassing and/or assaulting anyone, not much can be done. You'll have to deal with it or move to another car. Kids can be loud and frequently obnoxious because they are....wait for it...kids.
Or you can take it into your own hands, Copley. Why, just this past week, as I was riding in the "quiet car" on the commuter rail, I had to inform two people to kindly keep their cell phone conversations to a minimum. The conductor did absolutely nothing as he walked by. Unfortunately, one of the two, an, as you say, "obnoxious" businessman, gave me some lip. It is a risk you may have take for piece and quiet.
I stand by "obnoxious delinquent hooligans."
And I think the Commuter Rail and the Green Line are two entirely different worlds. "Quiet Car"? Count your blessings!
Do you even know
What "delinquent" means, Grampa Simpson?
Put on head phones
And get over yourself.
Thanks for the suggestion. Guess what? I already do.
But really, really, really appreciate the advice.
I don't know
But what is your take on the situation?
As one who rode the T during my hormonal teen years, I would say that boisterous high schoolers who are otherwise keeping to themselves (ie not gratuitously yelling at other riders) should be ignored. If this is the worst thing going on on your T commute, count yourself lucky.
And for the record, I was a quiet teen. I used to look forward to the South Shore kids getting off the 16 at Andrew (the Braintree train did not stop at JFK). I would hear about fights on the platform between BC High kids and Don Bosco kids on the platform at Andrew. So the teens at Forest Hills, while annoying, are pretty much harmless. I'm guessing the same is true of the MATCH kids.
It's truly a miracle . . .
that none of these kids has been run over on Comm Ave. I work across the street from Match and I leave work when a large group of them is leaving school. The numbers of times I have seen them step into the street, oblivious to signals, traffic, busses, bikes, other pedestrians, even the green line trains, I can't even begin to count. I'm shocked no one has been hit yet. Yesterday I watched someone throw a football into a crowd of kids while they were crossing Comm Ave. They missed and hit a car turning from Babcock. I'm trying not to be the "HEY YOU KIDS" guy, and I think I'm generally pretty patient, but it seems that in groups the level of obliviousness and rudeness these kids can attain is astounding.
I also witnessed a group of them standing in the very front of a not full bus, blocking access to the rest of the bus, even laughing when an older woman tripped over them trying to get past.
Are you sure it's the MATCH kids?
I lived near Brighton HS and the attached charter school(s) in that complex for years. Those kids were pretty rowdy, too.
Best thing to do is either ignore them or leave 15 minutes earlier so you're not on their train, if it bothers you that much.
See, it's not "their train."
See, it's not "their train." Kinda my point.
And yes, I'm sure they are Match kids. You can actually see them running from the school across Commonwealth (often without regard for cars, but I'll leave that for drivers to complain about) to catch the train I'm on.
Where they come from doesn't matter. BU bros probably do the same thing well past my commute, and I would feel the same way: STFU and show some consideration for others. That used to be the societal standard. I wish it still was.
Who cares?
It isn't your train, either.
Public transportation is public. Everyone rides. If you can't deal with that, and with obnoxious but not illegal behavior, you are the one who needs to reconsider your transportation timing and options.
You can ask them to quiet down, you know - nothing keeps you from asking aside from your own fear of kids and conflation of noise with criminal activity (use your best librarian/drill sergeant voice and they usually do, actually).
Obnoxious delinquent hooligans
Well, nobody will ever accuse YOU of burying a lede.
Frequent B-Liner here
I've lived on the green line near the match school for quite some time and I will say that while the students don't generally physically touch other riders (aside from getting hit from time to time by an errantly tossed basketball) they do scream/yell at each other, play loud music for each other on their phones without headphones, take up way more space than is required, swing from the railings, and generally just ignore the fact that everyone else is clearly not enjoying being near them. Everytime I see them getting on I try to see if I can switch cars at the next stop.
This is coming from a guy in his mid-20s, too. I wish they would just have a small amount of self-awareness. Obviously everyone else hates having to ride with them when they're doing that stuff, but they just don't care. I was always taught to be considerate to other people but they just act like the B line is their own personal party bus.
Used to see -
- the same thing back in the early to mid 1990s. Would make bank deposits for a company I worked for which was located on Comm ave. About three times a week I would take the green line to Copley at about the time some high school was getting out. No idea which one, but the behavior you describe was the same.
What I found interesting were the students self segregating. A number of them would be as far from the rowdy group as possible and all of them would be studying, reading, quizzing each other etc. Very quite group. All of them with backpacks that looked like they were packed for a trip to Mt. Everest. These kids would be mixed in with the non student commuters.
I saw this week after week.
The biggest problem were the number of fights that broke out at Copley where many of the students, and myself exited the train. I once asked a T cop at Copley about the problem and he said it happened
" Every. Damned. Day. "
Well...
If they are just being loud (but not belligerent) teenagers that's just the experience of riding the T after school. Yeah, it can be annoying as hell; but, as others have noted, compare that to the Friday and Saturday night brodeo.
Regarding kicking people (drunk bros or rowdy teens) off the train: As far as I know, if there is cause for an "ejection" the motorman must notify the dispatcher and wait for an official or TPD to arrive and be present. Only the Transit Police may physically remove someone. In short, it requires oodles of paperwork; not to mention the train has to stand by during the duration of this process. If you don't mind the train being held for 20-30 minutes, then call the Transit Police. But don't be surprised if the other passengers are now pissed off at you.
About ten years ago it seemed a few Brighton High and/or BCLA kids thought it would be a laugh to play with the emergency brake on the trolley. The Transit Police apparently got sick of responding to the same bullshit every afternoon and asked Operations to create some more bus supplementals; these, in turn, would be followed on the Pike by a cruiser just in case the operator flicked on his "green lights" while en route. The principal and some other school officials also made of point of posting up at Warren Street and Allston Street during dismissal.
Ultimately, when it comes to this sorta thing I'm rather indifferent. I was a teenager once (granted, I knew how to use my "indoor voice") and given all the other shenanigans I witness on the T, this is small potatoes in comparison.
Only once have I ever yelled at teens acting a fool (at Jackson Square). Adult or teen, if you are screwing around on the edge of the platform and hopping down into the pit I damn sure will yell at you to get the fuck off the right-of-way.
My two cents...
My mom worked part time at the Angell Memorial Hospital in her senior years. She usually ended her workday at about the same time high schools were dismissed, and often several busses would go by her stop full of screaming teens.
One day, the bus stopped to let a few kids off, and my mom wanted to get on. The driver warned her that the entire bus was full of "screaming hooligans" (not the driver's actual words) and she might want to wait a few minutes for the next bus.
My mom replied that as long a nobody was getting physically hurt, a little noise never hurt anyone, and what can you expect when kids have to sit quiet for six to eight hours every day with no recess? The driver insisted one of the kids give up a seat in front for her, and they went on their merry way.
By the next week, the loudest, most rambunctious member of the crowd was deliberately sitting in that first seat...in order to make sure *somebody* would be willing to give it up to the "nice little old lady" that was ok with all their shouting, laughing, and crazyness. More than a few even offered to carry her tote bag for her when she got off the bus.
Moral of the story: noise generaly never hurt anyone. If that's all you have to complain about, you are ahead of the game.
Problems with kids riding the T.
Me being a Charter School Student (Match Specifically) I don't appreciate it when other t-riders have problems with how my friends act on the t and do not say anything but will fully voice their opinion behind a screen. Before you go on the internet and make general assumptions about other t-riders take in to consideration the circumstances. We are confined into a small space for more than 5 hours. We are waken up at 4 in the morning the earliest and are not allowed to speak for most of the time. If you have a problem with us letting out all our energy on the T take an uber. While some kids can hold in their energy and stay tame others can not. You may have forgotten we are under the age of 18... CHILDREN. The bus driver is not allowed to tell us to shut the fuck up unless they would like to get fired however they may request for us to lower our volume. And yes please summon the cops because KIDS ARE BEING TOO LOUD AND ENERGETIC. On be half of my fellow high schoolers I am sorry that our actions make a bunch of grown adults scared. Now i personally do not act this way on the T and I definitely can relate to being in the presence of routy teenagers but OMG they are kids, sue them. Im literally the same age and mature but still I can understand that we need a break sometimes. To answer some of your other questions, yes you have 3 recourses you can either like you said move to another bus/car, get an uber (i heard they are cheap), or provide us with a bus (please be my guest). I think you get my point but I have one question for you. If you woke up at 4-5 in the morning (defying your biological clock) were confined to a small space with a planned schedule for 8 hours then were told you could leave on PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION with YOUR FRIENDS and you were under the age of 18 please tell me how you would act? They are kids they have no care in the world for other people's comfort in a space. If you cannot deal with KIDS being KIDS GET A CAR!!!