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When does the first broker start calling Dudley the Lower South End?

Tory Bullock ponders what's happening to Dudley Square.

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Well it looked like the South End until housing projects, arson, and highway clearance carpet bombed it into suburban levels of density and scale.

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Real Robu Yuppie.

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LoSo?

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Dudley "Village"

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DuSq to DuVi? Sounds about right.

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But not Doo-Vee.

Nawp.

It's Doo Vay -- you know, duvet.

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LoSoWeSoBo

(Lower south end, west of south Boston)

It rolls right off the tongue.

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kinda like how we have two sections of SoBo:

east broadway in SoBo = EaBroSoBo
west broadway in SoBo = WeBroSoBo

- The Original SoBo Yuppie.

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Dudley Square, gentrification, the possibility of calling a neighborhood something new, and a video by somebody who isn't an old white guy? Adam, I hope you sprung for the extra bandwidth from AWS this month, because this sucker is going to 200 comments.

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The BRA Death Star has written bike lanes out of Dudley Square planning...

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Not so simple. Three of the four new spots in the Boiling Building - Dudley Dough, Dudley Cafe, and the clothing store - are all locally-owned by Dudley residents for one. That's keeping money in the community. Having money spent in an area by workers is healthy, regardless of where they are from.

The real key to which way Dudley will go is the number of empty lots in the middle and around Dudley that are city-owned and privately-owned. Residents are right to lean on the BRA to do something there that aren't luxury units. What happens there will determine what happens in Dudley.

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What is a "Dudley Resident"?

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Businesses don't move into a neighborhood as a "gift" to the neighborhood. They move to areas where they will make a profit. Rather than telling "white people" (apparently synonymous with middle-class) to go to local markets, why not tell the current residents to spend money there to show potential new businesses that it's a profitable place to set up shop?
Which business does this guy own? I'm sure, for all his talking, that he owns the most popular store in the neighborhood, right?

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Too Bad Tory wasn't there in 1995. Past is prologue as you start to spread out from the Boston core.

This guy is on the mark. There is a line in the otherwise horrific movie Rising Sun that says something like America's last defense is its dangerous neighborhoods. Dudley isn't dangerous per se, but if it weren't for Camden, Orchard Park, and Whittier Tory would have been walking by a dog boutique, a place that only sells $90 sweaters for two month olds, and a blow out bar today instead of a lot of still locally owned businesses. You wonder why D Street and around West Eighth and Dorchester Street are only getting the treatment now? It isn't because of the lack of good bones in the local buildings.

Get ready good people of Dudley Square. Your neighborhood will soon be "discovered". Get ready for "I had just had the best food at the Silver Slipper. That place has such character, but there is a new Mongolian place on Washington that I am sticking with". "You wouldn't believe the great old bones on this single family on Whiting Street". "The Silver Line is sooo convenient to FiDi". These are things you will be hearing from the now 23 year olds in your office in 5 to 7 years.

On a tangent - The South End ends at Northampton Street. End of story. Everything else between there and Melena Cass is Lower Roxbury.

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Melnea

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not really a black white thing my brother. my white ass got gentrificated out my old neighborhood 7 years ago.

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not Tony.

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not really a black white thing my brother. my white ass got gentrificated out my old neighborhood 7 years ago.

( edit. my iPhone is making me blind )

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He needs to educate himself on a few things.

First, he needs to recognize that a lot of what has gone into Dudley Square recently is basically based on policies that do what he wishes gentrification would do- invest to get amenities in the area that people would want. The down side to making something appealing is exactly what he fears- that outsiders will want in, pushing out long term people.

Second, he needs to be more race neutral and visit Charlestown, check that, he needs to visit Woburn, Wilmington, or wherever the white people of Charlestown ended up when Charlestown gentrified, or maybe visit Hyde Park and Roslindale to talk to the Hispanics who got gentrified out of Jamaica Plain. Then, he can go to Southie and find common ground with the same folks who would have spit in his face rather than talk to him, since they are dealing with the same shit he will be facing in 5 to 10 years.

But yeah, it's about keeping the community together and strong, and he is right about that. The people who own need to stay and help out the renters who have made the community as strong as it is today.

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Thank god for people like you looking out for otherwise helpless white folks! The nerve of this guy to care about his community!

I agree, this is a complex class issue. But he does not need to be "more race neutral."

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We're the Townies of Charlestown pushed out because they were black? I mean, the guy does make it sound like a race issue when, yes, certainly, it is a class issue.

I support this guy's view overall, but race has nothing to do with gentrification.

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Yes. It absolutely is. Since institutionalized racism prevents black from getting mortgage loans, when gentrification hits...they can't cash out like townies in Charlestown and move to a burb with good schools so their kids can become yuppies like me.

- The Original SoBo Yuppie

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I know plenty of black people that own homes. My wife is black and she owned a home before we met.

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So do I but statistics show there is institutional racism for home ownership.

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I would agree generally with you that the prime mover of gentrification is the market - so we're talking money, so we're talking class -- the losers of the gentrification game can be black, latino, white, whatever.

But to say that race has nothing to do with gentrification is not right. Not when we have a history of red-lining, overtly racist govt policies at the every level of govt and economic and social systems that aren't run by algorithms, but by people. People who can tend to let a little race affect their decision-making. Race is most definitely in the mix, but, as you point out, it doesn't stop there.

As far as Dudley goes or Eggleston for that matter, I feel these places at the bleeding edge of the gentri-wave rolling out from the South End and J.P. are actually just kind of incidental. The real goal in terms of "good bones" is Grove Hall. There are buildings and streets down there that put Cambridge to shame. Boston's version of Central Park is just around the corner. All it needs is a gold-standard bus rapid transit line to get you to your job downtown.

Oh..and we gotta get rid of all those poor black people. That too.
(Caveat: some of those folks are not "poor" black people - they may own some of those beautiful homes and therefore will have some wealth in that home. Hopefully there's some work put into holding on to what they got and not just cashing out. Totally understandable on an individual basis but blows for the n'hood as a whole.)

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You might want to revisit was redlining was. Dudley Square (and, say, the Warren Ave/Blue Hill Ave spine going down to Mattapan) was one of the few places where black people could get mortgages. No, this is an issue of class.

And I get the point that this is the heart of the African American community in Boston, which does make it a more special place, but the history of displacement is not special to this area, even in the Boston area. Heck, the heart of Black Boston 150 years ago was Beacon Hill. And it's definitely not a racial or ethnic thing.

I mean, if one wants to conflate race and gentrification, then one would have to concede what the more racist elements in South Boston and Charlestown have believed for decades, that their ethnicity is under attack and gentrification is one of the prime movers (along with busing, of course.)

I'll leave it (I promise) with this on thing. A friend of mine, a Codman Square kid, moved to Washington DC 15 years ago and bought a condo we'll say between yuppified Dupont Circle and down and out Adams Morgan. Things changed in the few years between him moving in and me visiting. We were walking down the street and passed a row house with a chain link fence, dog roaming in the front yard, and a guy in a "wife beater" on the porch. He remarked that once this guy was the norm and the yuppies were the odd ones. Now it has flipped. And now historic U Street is under threat and DC is facing horrible Black Flight. Sometimes change is good, sometimes it is not. I like to see life in Dudley Square, but not at the expense of the long time folk.

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The area surrounding Dudley is incredibly dangerous (and that includes the lower section of the South End). I highly doubt gentrification will hit that area (if at all) for at least 20 years.

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Dudley is incredibly dangerous? No (see crime stats map linked below). What it is, is pretty convenient to downtown and full of big victorian single families for under $500K. I thought his video was good. Gentrification is an economic issue. He seems very enterprising.

http://spotcrime.com/ma/boston

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It is not that dangerous. I'm there all the time and have actually thought about buying the area.

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You must have some deep pockets.

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Sorry Sally that I left out the word in...must be nice to be perfect! Get over yourself and your cute quirky comebacks.

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Sorry you have no sense of humor. Good luck with your real estate endeavors.

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Lol. Oh I'm sorry. You were being funny?! That's hilarious then. I thought you were just being a passive aggressive nit picker. My bad. You are one clever funny girl!

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Isn't he standing in front of a heavily subsidized building built by the city. Is the point that the city is causing this?

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Um....

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Yeah, it's the Bolling building. Built, owned and paid for by the City of Boston. I don't think that part's up for debate. They've got school dept. offices in there.

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Instead of complaining about how dirty things are, and how that don't have anything goo, why doesn't he rally the people in that neighborhood to clean things up? If more people in that neighborhood actually cared about their surroundings and didn't openly throw trash in the streets, then maybe good things would start to happen. It is all about the Broken Window theory.

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He's happy that Dudley Square is spiffier. He's just worried about the people and businesses that toughed it out for decades.

Unless your theory is that some windows need to get broken.

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I was lucky to take a tour of the Bolling Building with the gentleman who worked with Menino on getting the project built. He no longer works at City Hall for various reasons.

In any event, he noted they were excited to see some of the neighbors fixing up their buildings because it meant more money coming to the area. He also noted that at least one of the storefronts is owned by someone out of country who doesn't come back for reasons and doesn't care to put money into it to fix it up. But ultimately he was thrilled to see places getting spiffed up.

He also talked about how they worked with the neighbors to get tenants in the retail spaces of the Bolling Building the neighbors wanted. In fact, there was talk of getting a white tablecloth type restaurant in the main space at the 'point' of the Ferdinand Building, however they're learning that the square foot carved out for it may be too large for interested restaurateurs.

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The hours of the stores are the giveaway - nobody dares walking there after 8. It takes an extremely gullible person to even rent there. The Silver Line is great, but renting in Chinatown will save you a lot more than the bus fare,

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Speaking as a minority, I find this man's outlook does a kind of violence to the people of our community; it is very reductive to reduce people to a color or a class. His way of looking at the situation just makes people into objects, stereotypes. He does not treat people as people. People are more complex than a color or an income bracket. It is as assault on people's dignity to reduce them to a label.

He has an idea that we should be just given a bunch of nice restaurants and shops and that somehow nobody from outside would want to move in once the neighborhood is so nice? What do we live in, some kind of reservation where only we can have these benefits? That's not how the rest of the city works, so why should we get a separate neighborhood all to ourselves? Essentially he is asking for a gated community that keeps all the nice things to ourselves. It seems unrealistic and it excludes a lot of people in an unfair way.

People speak about gentrification, but it deflects from the real issue. The real issue is not that rich people choose where they want to live. The real issue is that our society allows poverty to continue. We should not be fighting about where rich people should live. The real struggle should be to eliminate poverty. We should not be worried about nice restaurants popping up. We should be worried about making sure that everyone can enjoy a nice restaurant meal. We should not be struggling to make a lot of low-income housing that just perpetuates poverty. Instead, we should be making a standard of living that is good for all people in all places. The fight is to eliminate poverty. The talk about gentrification is just a distraction to avoid dealing with the more difficult problem of poverty.

I do find it interesting the comment above about Grove Hall being like (or better) than Cambridge in terms of architectural quality. This is very true and goes mostly unrecognized by people who do not live in the neighborhood. Take a look on at the house that recently sold at 11 Wayne Street for an idea of the high quality of homes in the area. I'm proud of where we live.

http://www.thewelshgroup.com/real-estate/11-wayne-st-boston-ma-02121/720...

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In my opinion, gentrification has hit all races quite drastically over the past 50 years. It seems to have originally involved more of a class-related population overhaul for a neighborhood, whereas now it appears to be a bit more mixed of a race-related & class-related population overhaul.

Much of the modern-day housing construction seems to yield...wait for it....LUXURY apartments and condos. Who are these developments geared toward? Executive upper class folk who make a minimum of $100K per year. Class-wise, this obviously benefits those in the upper class almost exclusively. Race-wise, it seems many non-white populations comprise the hosting neighborhoods where these towering new developments end up.

The concept of "dirty" or "old" anything in a neighborhood seems to be so taboo these days, that any opportunity to gentrify and get those "oh so wonderful" $2K per month luxury residences in its place seems to be embraced quickly. Never mind the racial or neighborhood history, rough edges & all...just get the upper class in (and make a few residences "affordable" as a bone to the lower class).

Sadly, it's both non-white neighborhoods that suffer for accommodating properties geared towards upper class (almost exclusively) & lower-to-middle class neighborhoods that are left without accommodating options post-gentrification. I'm waiting to see the new apartments & condos in neighborhoods that cater to all races who make $30-$60K that aren't brick bunkers echoing 1960s public housing construction.

FYI, I am a mid-30s white male manager of a biosciences company (for fuller disclosure of where this opinion is coming from).

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