Somebody really did a number on a Back Bay Hubway station

At Boylston and Berkeley streets this morning:

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Comments

Well, that su-ucks! Hope they

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Well, that su-ucks! Hope they can nail the loser. Should be lots of surveillance video in that area.

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Voting is closed. 33

Was walking by when HubWay staffer showed up

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His jaw almost hit the ground. He then chatted with the security guy at the nearest building.

"we got a call that a car 'hit the station,' but Jesus! all the bikes are flattened!"

The security guard confirmed that the hubway station was like this when his shift started, so yeah def. happened overnight. There has to be film of the collision somewhere.

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Dangerous locations

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Many Hubway stations are in dangerous locations i.e. Too close to busy intersections, near bus stops/taxi stands and Hubway and the City knows this. They won't do anything until someone gets hurt or killed and the get their bicycle britches sued. BTW host foes a private business get the City to let them takeover public property? Come on space saver complainants, let's hear it.

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This is the first problem in

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This is the first problem in almost 10 years. Cool it Chicken Little before the Brookline Turkeys show up to peck you in the giblet.

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Citation Needed

If possible, please post specific examples of stations you believe to be in dangerous locations. I pass various stations often and not once have I noticed a hubway stand and thought "wow that is in a dangerous spot...". Hell most of the ones I can think of from memory are installed way the 'eff up into sidewalks.

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I'll give you one

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Huntington Ave just beyond Brigham Circle. The cars in the left lane often merge to the right to avoid the tracks, which means the cars in the right lane might scoot over, too.

That said, the anon below is right. If someone can point to another instance of something like this happening, feel free, but I can't.

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Do you mean in front of Penguin Pizza?

I was stopped at the lights at Brigham Circle last week and noticed that the hubway station was now across the street in front of the new lawn/park at the hospital on the sidewalk.

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More dangerous for Hubway than for parking?

As cw in boston has already pointed out, the Hubway station in front of Penguin Pizza was relocated to in front of the park at 15 Francis Street some time ago. But I'm curious why you think it's more dangerous for there to be a Hubway station in front of the Penguin than the automobile parking that has existed in the same spot for many years? Isn't there a similar risk that "cars in the right lane might scoot over" to collide with those cars?

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Dangerous for the bikes

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They are smaller, so motorists might not notice them until it is too late. Moreover, the lights on the rear of a vehicle are reflective even when the lights are off (which does not let those who drive without their lights on at night off the hook.)

This is not to excuse anyone who smashes into a bike stand, but the question was asked, so an idea was put out there. And since the bike station was moved, I'm guess someone at the Hubway office might have been thinking the same thing, like the guys who drive around in trucks servicing the bikes.

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Nonsense

They are smaller, so motorists might not notice them until it is too late.

This is nonsense. An individual bicycle is smaller, but the Hubway station was the length of 2 cars, with a large billboard at the end, and a streetlamp jut before it lighting up the scene. Really not so hard to notice, as evidenced by the fact that that stand was never hit by a car. (BTW, the Google Maps streetview shot that you linked in your first post happens to show a streetcar going through the intersection, and a whole bunch of traffic successfully merging into one lane without any difficulty and without coming at all close to either the Hubway stand or the cars parked just beyond it.)

My suspicion is that the Brigham Circle Hubway stand was simply moved in order to restore the two metered parking spaces, since the reconstructed sidewalk at 15 Francis allowed the stand to be accommodated there.

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It kind of is just you, though...

The fairly new (2015) MassDOT Separated Bike Lane Planning & Design Guide §5.3 "On-Street Bike Parking" has NO requirements for markings or bollards. The only relevant text is:
Consider locating vertical objects between bike and motor vehicle parking to increase visibility for motorists and to protect bicycles from motor vehicle encroachment.
.

#1: Do you notice the phrase "NO requirements for markings or bollards"?
#2: The Hubway parking station itself fulfills this suggestion: "Consider locating vertical objects between bike and motor vehicle parking to increase visibility for motorists and to protect bicycles from motor vehicle encroachment." (Also, the text that DTP quotes here refers to motor vehicle PARKING adjacent to bicycle parking - it says nothing at all about passing traffic.)

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Yes, just me

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And the person I cited.

I guess I'm 2 people, then.

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2 people, opposite opinions

I remain genuinely confused as to why you think that the person you cited agrees with your argument, because to me they appear to be stating the exact opposite.

Again, in what way does "[t]he fairly new (2015) MassDOT Separated Bike Lane Planning & Design Guide §5.3 "On-Street Bike Parking" has NO requirements for markings or bollards" support your contention that the on-street Hubway stand in front of the Penguin was in a dangerous location?

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Here is one

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See picture above.

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Oh?

Given that much damage the car must have been going awfully fast and made no attempt to stop. Pretty hard to suggest it was the stationary bike rack that's unsafe.

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Try Beacon and Charles

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Beacon and Charles is located immediately following a blind corner and is in the street. Another example is Arlington and boylston, again in close proximity to a corner and in the street.

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Perkins Square in Southie

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Right before a cab stand and around the corner from a Dunkies. I think they moved it after being told by some persinsl injury lawyer that someone was going to get killed hopping their ass on one of those ugly bikes.

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When did you move to Southie?

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It was in the street til they determined it was too dangerous then they decided to take up room on the sidewalk. Stop pretending to not be a newbie.

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Castle Island

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I see jerks bombing around Castle Island on their lethal weaponry and there are signs everywhere saying No Bikes.

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The problem in this city is

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The problem in this city is that no one wants to follow the rules when traveling, which makes things worse for everyone whether they're a pedestrian, cyclist or motorist. This dynamic is caused by a total lack of traffic enforcement by the BPD.

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Please provide evidence

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Maybe an actual statistic on how many people have been killed by cyclists at Castle Island.

Ever, or this year - your choice.

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He's just looking for something to complain about re bikes.

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As is evident by the stray complaint later about using up parking spaces (for something designed to reduce parking need). Not buying his sudden concern for the safety. He did forget "What About the Children?" though.

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Dumb people

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They have nothing better to do. Sad, indeed.

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Well...

Somebody monster moved the bikes.

Hold on, I'll save you the trouble:

By anon (not verified)

You are CRAPTASTIC! Bicycles RULE! You are a moron and stupid!

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No, We should focus on both

I shocked that you can type so well with you bike induced stigmata messing up your hands.

I drive, walk, and bike (on a Hubway) downtown a lot. I actually fear bikes the most downtown because at least 99.44% (not sourced) of the time cars are going to stop at red lights, crosswalks, and stop signs, not drive the wrong way down the street, and are generally are more aware of their surroundings than say your typical bicyclist, especially the oh so sacred bike messengers.

By the way, if you see a car going more than 40 mph down Boylston, call the cops, the speeders are violating the law (just like all the bikes not stopping at red lights / crosswalks / stop signs). The speed limit is 25 MPH.

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I just don't get this attitude

Car drivers kill and injure people in Boston all the time. (Sometimes even people inside buildings.) That's not even counting hundreds of thousands of dollars of property damage to stationary objects. (It shouldn't be hard to avoid a stationary object.)

Meanwhile bikes have killed no one in greater Boston in a long, long time. They do hurt people once in a while but the injuries are minor.

A 2000lb car moving at 25mph (which is slow in Boston) is going to cause a lot more injury and damage then a 200lb bike + rider moving at 12mph. Basic physics here. Plus, the cyclist has a incentive to avoid the collision since they'd be just as hurt.

It's irrational to think bikes pose a greater threat. Why not drop the pretense of dangerous and just say you find bikes annoying. (Stupid bikers are akin to people who don't clean up after their dog: Really annoying but a pretty minor problem compared to everything else in the city.)

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Not a valid comparison

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The comparison that you make here isn't valid Whil, obviously cars are the bigger threat, they are also the most regulated. Bicycles are barely regulated and routinely run lights, crosswalks, go down one way streets, bike on the sidewalk, don't wear helmets, text while cycling, wear headphones while biking, etc. with absolute impunity. Bicycles are a major threat to pedestrians, not at all minor. Not at all like dog poop. They are much more than an annoyance; they are a real danger, albeit not to cars. We often hear comparisons to Europe in terms of having bikes as part of our transportation system. Great idea, and good for the urban environment, but it requires that bikes/cyclists are regulated and follow the rules. I have no problem with bikes or cyclists, but they need to obey the rules too.

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Whatever

Do you have statistics to show all the bad things bicyclists do actually is resulting in a statically high number of people getting seriously hurt? (And hurt to the point of needing medical attention and overnight hospital stays.) Or do you just think there's a real threat because sometime you come close to being hit.

As for the dog analogy: Dog Shit makes people sick. Not a lot of people and not very sick but it's a urban nuisance nevertheless. Just like stupid cyclists. Most dog owners clean up after fydo but non dog owners often assume that just because some people don't scoop, most dog owner must not.

As for Europe, you might want to go spend some time in the bike centric countries. Plenty of riders violate the laws there too, it's that people ignore it just like they ignore all the car moving violations here. It's annoying.

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And have statistics...

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Have statistics for those bike centric countries, just like you asked the last person for statistics?

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There is no bike centric country in Europe

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There are some areas of some cities, notably Amsterdam, Copenhagen, etc., where bikes are common (so are cars). Go outside these areas, and you'll find people driving cars are fast and impatient.

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Bicyclist are regulated. The

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Bicyclist are regulated. The city does not enforce any of the regulations, however.

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Riding a bike on the sidewalk

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Riding a bike on the sidewalk in Massachusetts is legal, unless in a business district or their is a local ordinance against it. Either way, it should be posted.

An adult riding without a helmet is also legal. And the law says that a failure to wear a helmet cannot be used as "evidence of contributory negligence."

(http://www.massbike.org/laws
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter85/Sect...
http://www.mass.gov/courts/case-legal-res/law-lib/laws-by-subj/about/bic...)

Crosswalks are a gray area at best. Someday, this will be decided by the legislature or the SJC. (http://www.massbike.org/2492)

You shouldn't complain about cyclists not following "rules" that don't exist.

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Bikes

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You don't see bikes riding on sidewalks on a regular bases. Come to think of it you don't see cars going the wrong way on one way streets on a regular bases either.

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One way streets?

I live on a one-way street, and my house faces another one-way street that my street feeds into. I see cars driving the wrong way down one or both of those streets every single day.

I also frequently see cars drive past these FOUR one-way/do not enter signs (two on each side of the street): https://goo.gl/maps/LWSdsSA3QnP2

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Bike people need to stop acting like assholes

-riding wrong way down one way
-riding on wrong side of street
-running red lights, stop signs
-riding across 4-6 lanes of crossing traffic
-blowing through crosswalks

bike crazies are stoking a general lawlessness. The bikes blow red lights, then the scooters do it. Then the cars do it, because they say it's not fair that those guys have all the fun. Now the uber drivers are passing 20 cars on the wrong side of the yellow line.

Everybody who sees this hates bikes. You know why Marty Walsh said what he said about bikes? Because he will get way more votes from everybody on the streets who see the bikers act like assholes.

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Wow, this is amazing

Drivers and Uber operators break the law because only because they saw someone on a bicycle do it? Did you just admit people in cars are envious of people on bikes? That would imply you (and most other bike haters) don't care about the safety aspect, you're just jealous.

So what explains speeding, following too close, double parking, etc? Perhaps are those things OK because you do those things yourself. (It's OK if you break the regulations, right?)

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FTFY

Wow, car drivers really need to stop acting like assholes

-driving wrong way down one way
-driving on wrong side of street
-running red lights, stop signs
-Driving across 4-6 lanes of crossing traffic
-blowing through crosswalks
Driving crazies are stoking a general lawlessness. The drivers blow red lights, then the scooters do it. Then the pedestrians jaywalk, because they say it's not fair that those guys have all the fun. Now the uber drivers are passing 20 cars on the wrong side of the yellow line because they see other drivers do it.
Everybody who sees this hates motorists. You know why Marty Walsh said what he said about bikes? Because he will get way more votes from asshole motorists on the streets who think that they have a right to act like assholes, even though they kill kill kill kill kill.

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"Call the cops"

Oh thats adorable!

For what its worth, I just got home from a 17 mile ride around town and was almost right-hooked by a motorist who was texting and driving, pretty unaware of her surroundings. And I saw a car blow a red light on Comm Ave. Plenty of cars speeding too. Oh and a few blocked bike lanes, parking in front of fire hydrants, blocking the box, etc.

But yeah, 99.44% or whatever.

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No false equivalency

This is a story about a flattened hub way station. It is really bizarre to read people blame the inanimate object but I shouldn't be surprised since you guys Have blamed all of the cyclists and even some pedestrians for being killed by cars. We don't even know if a car did this. Drivers feeling a little insecure?

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Bad timing... city is packed

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Bad timing... city is packed with tourists this weekend, lots of families with kids. Just glad no people were hurt, unlike the cabbie that hit 10 guys.

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NACTO is not "federal safety

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NACTO is not "federal safety standards".

NACTO (the National Association of City Transportation Officials) is a nonprofit organization consisting of a coalition of city DOTs that advocates on their behalf, and provides design and planning guidance to members.

Its design guides are a very useful resource and many cities use them, but they are NOT the law, and following them is NOT a requirement (like it is with the federal MUTCD, for example).

Also, I'm about 99% sure this crash would have still happened no matter how much paint and how many bollards were placed around the Hubway station.

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MA adopted NATCO standards in

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MA adopted NATCO standards in addition to MUTCD. So at least in the Commonwealth IT IS THE LAW.

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No it's not.

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No it's not.

Source: I do this for a living.

MassDOT has its own Project Development and Design Guide, and a bunch of other guides, many of which incorporate elements from the NACTO guides, but following the NACTO guides is NOT a requirement of projects in Massachusetts.

The fairly new (2015) MassDOT Separated Bike Lane Planning & Design Guide §5.3 "On-Street Bike Parking" has NO requirements for markings or bollards. The only relevant text is:

Consider locating vertical objects between bike and motor vehicle parking to increase visibility for motorists and to protect bicycles from motor vehicle encroachment.

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Accident waiting to happen

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I have no problem with Hubway but putting the station in the travel lane (or close to it) seems fraught with peril, especially at night. Could the bikes be angle-parked or parked parallel instead of vertical, reducing their footprint on the road? Keep in mind State Police cruisers and arrow board "crash trucks" with the latest emergency lights are routinely hit, so for a bike station in the road, surrounded by a couple of cones, it seems an accident was inevitable. Is this bike station even lit at night? Best to keep the bike stations off the street.

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Yep

The way that MA makes it difficult for even doctors to get bad drivers off the road, and lets people rack up half a dozen DUIs and still drive? Absolutely accidents waiting to happen.

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Suspect found, charged

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The Herald reports the Quincy Cadillac driver faces charges for both hitting the station and for driving away.

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To recap

According to the article, the driver was drunk, drove through several stoplights at high speeds, and left the scene after the collision, and abandoned the car.

Keep that in mind when claiming this is Hubway's fault or that bicycle riders are the real threat.

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Bikes

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Why can they just put the bikes on the sidewalk. That particular sidewalk on Boylston is quite wide.

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So....

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If it had been parked cars instead, that would have been better?

Or if it had been open road and the maniac blowing red lights at a high rate of speed hadn't hit anything and made it a few more blocks down the road and ran someone over rather than abandon his busted vehicle?

When they started putting the Hubway stations in the road, I thought it was a mistake because it took up parking spaces in some of the areas where any public parking is extremely tight (like Comm Ave around BU). But maybe they should take more parking away. Maybe Boston should be the first city that only allows parking in off-street lots (with every space mandated to have a plug-in for electrics) and force more people to take (and thus care) about mass transit and using bikes to get around town.

Rather than shove bikes to the side...maybe that whole block should be bike racks.

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Wow

The Hubway stand works just fine with sober drivers. How selfish to use this ridiculous collision to complain about parking? Because its not like that space would just be open.

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According to the article

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According to the article, this driver was sober, but still capable of driving like a moron and losing control of his vehicle.

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That is perfect

I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN TO EVERY LAST DAM ONE .PUTS MANY MORE BICYCLES ON THE ROAD AND NOT TO MENTION LESS EXPERIENCED BIKERS AND OR TOURISTS, WHICH MEANS DOUBLE TROUBLE THEY NOT ONLY SCREW TRAFFIC UP THEY DO IT WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN NO WHERE THEY ARE NOR WHERE THERE GOING.

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