WCVB reports that Mayor Walsh, fed up with reports of vandalism related to space savers, is threatening to end the whole 48-hour-after-a-storm space-saver thing.
...in how thoroughly they shovel their space, I still say get rid of the space saver program. If I move it, I lose it.
If you don't want to shovel your car out, put it in a garage. Yes, that will cost money. No, you do not "own" public property.
If you don't like that idea, put down the McDonald's Extra Value Meal, get off your lazy ass, and shovel out the car.
There are no garages anywhere near my house and in many parts of Boston. Not a solution unless you have lots of money and live downtown.
you chose to own a car in the city.
you have to deal with the responsibilities that come with that.
one of those responsibilities is finding a place to put it. you want to use free public space to do it? fine, but shoveling out and looking for a new spot when you get home is the price you have to pay.
so there´s no garage or lot near your house? okay. why is that anyone else´s fault? why do the rest of us have to give you ownership over public space? just because you whine about it and threaten violence?
And while we're at it, can we do something about those that chose to own bikes in the city? I'm sick and tired of these bike owners feeling entitled to public roads, so much so that they've bullied the city into reserving sections of public property specifically for them.
So you're too poor or too hipster to own a car? Okay, why is that anyone else's fault?
Taken sarcastically or not, illogical regardless, despite your posting handle.
No one said that you shouldn't be able to park your car on the street or have a car in the city. They merely ask that you take responsibility for the car and pay to store/park it if you need exclusive use of a parking spot. Also that car ownership and shoveling a spot doesn't entitle you to exclusive ownership of a parking spot for the remainder of the winter. Bicycles, pedestrians, cars and speedo wearing rollerskaters are all equally entitled to the streets. We all pay property taxes (or rent that pays taxes), so we've all paid for the streets.
Except bikers aren't vandalizing each other's property over reserving space in a bike rack.
No one is arguing to get rid of roads, the argument is that just because you own a car does not mean you can own a piece of public property.
Equating providing bike lanes with allowing people to claim a piece of public property as their own couldn't be a larger distortion of the actual situation.
Bicycles have very little space reserved for bike racks compared to all the parking spaces that exist in the city.
Drivers don't pay the entire cost of roads. Non drivers pay property tax, sales tax, income tax plus medical costs that result from driving pollution and driver obesity, too.
And many cyclists also own cars. We pay for insurance, license, tolls, gas, etc.
Life sucks for you. You want, "need", to own a car and but you can't afford an off street space and parking it further away would be, like, totally inconvenient.
So what makes it OK to shift your problem to everyone else? Why do you deserve special treatment when people who don't have a space saver get similarly screwed?
Yep, I have a car in Boston and I pay for a space (about $1200/yr In Eastie) just so I don't have to deal with the stupidity. It's a lot for an uncovered space that I still have to shovel out if I want to use my car, but it beats being part of the pestilence. Cheaper than physical therapy from being gutshot by some psycho, too.
Want a dedicated space? PAY. That is how it works.
WHERE please tell me!!
but that doesn't mean there aren't others.
Here's a few that pop to mind:
- shovel out your car when you want to park it
- rent an off-street parking space
- take a bus
- take the train
- move to a different part of town
- move someplace without snow
- stop expecting others to remedy your poorly justified "needs"
Sounds great but you do know that there are some very poor people in this city that are struggling to keep their car on the road so that they can get to a job that might not be MBTA accessible. Maybe they have a baby that they need to drop off at daycare that isn’t near their job. Maybe that if they’re late one more time they lose that job. Not everyone has the options that you or I do. Space saving might sound ridiculous but for some people like in this example not having a parking spot in their neighborhood is a nightmare.
more people would be able to find spaces within the neighborhood(s) in which they reside.
The city should step up to the plate and do a far better job of snow removal after a big snowfall than it does. That would solve a lot of problems.
People already ignore the 48 hour rule as if it doesn't apply to them, what makes him think anyone is going to listen when they're banned altogether? We saw a great example in the South End yesterday.
I have 0 faith the Walsh Administration would commit to actually enforcing this, and question whether the city even has the resources needed to do so in an impactful way.
I ignore the 48 hour rule as do my neighbors on (name not disclosed) street in Dorchester. In most cases Marty does not enforce the ridiculous 48 hour rule, and that's a good thing. Everyone needs to take a chill pill. The snow will thaw and the space savers will disappear eventually. I shoveled out my space and I will not shovel our a new space every time I drive somewhere and return to my house. Despite all the vitriol about space savers on Uhub, space savers are used by the majority of car owners in areas like Dorchester, and we will continue to do so because the system works.
The problem isn't the savers, it's the fact people feel entitled to vandalize someone's car if the "rule" is broken.
If it was wasn't for vigilante retribution no one would care.
And therefore, since okay to claim property as your own that doesn't belong to you, I am claiming your house in Dorchester. But because I'm a nice guy, you have 30 days to vacate the premises.
"Screw all of you, the rules don't apply to me. I am above them"
And so I used one yesterday. Someone is picking them up though, because they were all gone 3 hours later. By either luck, or fear, no one parked in my spot. While No crime is acceptable, it is frustrating to park in the winter. I think this was inevitable since the mayor brought up the subject at all. Now its a stupid crusade.
It isn't your spot.
By luck or fear nobody parked in the publicly-owned spot you left.
That comment is exactly what I mean. In context, my spot does not imply ownership. That fact that you need to "correct" me is ridiculous.
The resources needed are garbage trucks. The city certainly has some of those. Just send them out more often after storms. Any garbage on the street goes into the truck.
Good on Marty for acknowledging a system that doesn't work and is an international embarrassment for the city.
I totally forgot about that fleet of self-driving, fully automated, electric garbage trucks, complete with smart arms that can determine where and what an object is, what it weighs, and where/how to pick it up. That also happen to be Transformers, capable of holding those who vandalize cars because they think the person stole "their" spot accountable.
Pick up space savers on each street's regular trash day. The additional time is minimal.
City of Boston doesn’t do weekly trash pick up, it’s contracted to another company.
as Lmo noted, trash and recycling is contracted out, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a line item in the contract regarding dealing (or not dealing) with space savers.
48 hours to move your vehicle to the other side of the street.
I agree with you, but they will get attacked, just like traffic enforcement got attacked when they tried to crack down on double parking on Broadway.
That seriously happened? Seems like the city's first priority ought to be making sure that its citizens respect the rule of law, like perhaps by making a huge example of people who ATTACK MUNICIPAL WORKERS. Jesus, this city.
I forget his name, but yes, someone from the local police station told us that at a public meeting (the one that preceded this one that got cancelled).
We're world class, yo.
And where is the money to fund these additional trash pickups? And " international embarrassment ", really? I suggest you find a way to overcome your constant agitation on this issue. Perhaps a hobby like smoking weed. It will do wonders for your attitude.
BTW, in the past the city has been known to pick up space savers on the scheduled trash day. But they do not pick up trash or recycling containers. Not surprisingly many of us use trash or recycling containers for our space savers.
I’m sure Boston’s space saver issue is not an international concern!!
But back in 2015 ...
Even before Menino came up with this, there were space savers and battles like this, only without the secondary media coverage (I'm looking at you Gaffin, but also twitter.) Even after Tom said that this was the law of the land and the law will be respected, the 48 hour thing was only a theoretical deadline in a lot of places. Heck, both mayors during the time of this policy relaxed it after major storms, with the understanding that one's traffic cone wasn't safe forever.
But look at the example you gave. In the South End, which theoretically does not allow any kind of space saving, there was an incident we'll say 98 hours after the snow emergency was lifted, meaning twice the time the saver would have been allowed if it were allowed, which is wasn't because it was the South End. How is Walsh decreeing an end to the practice really going to stop it?
I will say this, Walsh had to step up and denounce the violence. Maybe rattling the sabre like this will do something. Who knows?
He needs to tell us what the alternative to violence is, then. There are two ways to enforce property rights: private violence or the rule of law. The alternative to the vandalism is that he creates a system where people whose spaces are stolen can call 911 and expect a swift response, either a tow or a ticket of the offending car.
They are public streets not private parking spots.
You don't own your space. It isn't your property. You have no right to it.
You should lose your privilege to use it if you misbehave.
What are you talking about? Nobody "stole" anyone's space. Say it with me, YOU DON'T OWN PUBLIC PROPERTY BECAUSE YOU SPENT 25MINS SHOVELING YOUR CAR OUT.
Why are you yelling? I agree with you. I'm talking about the system he has endorsed. Sorry "system" is that better?
And respect is a two way street.
Look, I see the sense of limiting the amount of time people get to have dibs on a spot that they shoveled out, but the 48 hour thing is too rigid. The rigidity goes both ways. The city declares a snow emergency, then the air currents change and the foot predicted is 3 inches and yes, SOBs that didn't lift a shovel throw chairs out on the street and claim a space. Conversely, were I the czar of space saving, I would have allowed it until today, but not a minute after midnight, since this was a rough snow (and if there are people who disagree, make sure you haven't commented on the sidewalks and curbs) that is finally manageable.
Moreover, I do think there are ways to vent in either direction short of violence. Heck, there is vandalism possible that would not entail actual destruction of property, like getting out the hose when it is below freezing and washing the person's car. And violence against a person should be a no-no in any circumstances. That should be known to anyone, regardless of the situation. Leave a note. Shovel out a new space using where you shoveled before, which is now occupied by another car, as a place to put the snow.
Violence is never the answer. Never.
The law that says that you don't own public property, never have, never will.
Grow up and stop enabling. Or, better yet, my drunken uncle would love to marry you with your complex excuse making behavior.
Look, if the space saver crowd routinely put notes out saying their estimated return time and did not slash tires or smash windows, it might be just a bit of local color.
But what is the neighborhood dog walker, house cleaner, construction worker supposed to do when every space on a street has already been shoveled and has a threat of violence sitting in the space for 14+ hrs/day?
This is STUPID. Buy a space or sell your car.
You need someone to give you an “alternative to violence”?!? Find another spot, if it ends up being miles away, Uber home.
A spot across the street from me on Sumner has been "saved" for at least 4 GD days with nothing in it but a folding chair. No sign of any vehicle for daaaays. Is it a political statement or pure selfishness? Both? Either way it does the neighborhood no favors. Enough already.
It's simple: finish your coffee this morning, walk outside and move the folding chair to the sidewalk at least several spaces away. If anyone bothers you, call 911.
It's absolutely disgusting that people act like spoiled brats when it comes to parking spaces in the winter, and then act like a child who's just broken a new toy when somebody takes their space.
I think the city workers who go around ticketing businesses and homes for not shoveling the sidewalks could also gather up the space savers and toss em into an area to be collected.
Maybe Walsh could threaten to actually enforce the law he signed and start fining people $250 for illegally reserving a public way.
Who gets the ticket? Is it attached to the cone, lamp, air conditioner, car battery, etc that is saving the space in the street?
Can’t wait to see how this plays out!
Marshall law in Southie. Entire blocks on fire as yuppies flee. Roving gangs chugging Dunkin's while marauding like something out of Mad Max movie. Realtors changing their copy to write about the authentic 'Warriors' experience in SoBo. Amazon deploying a killer drone army to make the city safe for its WORLD DOMINATION LAIR --- I mean secondary global headquarters.
I was thinking more that things will continue going on as they have for years.
...as in, "related to war".
Now is the time to finally end the formal sanctioning of this practice. The city should not be endorsing vigilante justice on its streets.
There is absolutely no excuse at all for vandalizing another person's property. Start suspending the parking permits of those who cause such destruction.
I haven't had s resident sticker for the last 3 years and I've never been ticketed. Please everyone, stop the idiotic suggestions.
After shoveling out my car once and chopping it out of 2 inches of ice after an unfortunate fire in my neighborhood I feel entitled to my labor in the form of a parking space. My neighbors and I are in agreement and in all the years living here I've never seen anything violent happen because of space saving. I know it happens but not on my street as far as I can tell.We respect the unwritten code.
I do find it odd that people who complain about the code while looking for a parking spot don't just pull out a shovel and start digging ( there are about 8 spots in front of the park near my home there for the taking)
I pay more taxes than you, so I feel entitled to your spot when I go to work.
How does that sound?
You cleared your car so that you can use your car. That gives you absolutely zero claim to anything. It doesn't matter whether or not your neighbors agree that it is okay to steal public property. They can offer you space in their driveway.
Who pray tell is going to stop them?
I also live in Dorchester, in Fields Corner. If the fire you refer to was the Allston St fire, I live very close to you. I agree 100% with your statement.
I feel entitled to my labor in the form of a parking space. My neighbors and I are in agreement and in all the years living here I've never seen any thing violent happen because of space saving. I know it happens but not on my street as far as I can tell.We respect the unwritten code
For all of you that are hyperventilating about the use of space savers, please note that StillfromDot and I are both telling you that at least in our neighborhood, the space saver system is supported by the neighborhood, and there have been no known violence associated with them.
People who save spaces do not shovel out the space, they shovel out their car. That's what they signed up for when they left it there with a snow storm coming.
Most of this vandalism is on innocent people who parked in a spot that was not being saved because SOMEONE ELSE (city or whoever) removed the space saver since it was well past the deadline.
I think most people are respecting the unwritten code, but a third party complicates it.
If you care so much about "your" spot, don't bother to shovel out your car. Problem solved.
Nobody asked you to shovel out your car, so don't act like doing it entitles you to anything. The rest of the city doesn't care if you use your car or not. Stop acting like maintaining your own stuff entitles you to lay a claim to public property.
They'd have to park their cars first.
I feel entitled
That right there is the root of the problem, isn't it?
that you and your neighbors can't override law/ordinance, and use illegal means to deny others lawful use of public property.
It's public property. It's not yours just because it's outside your house. It's not yours just because you and your neighbors decided it's yours. The law saws quite clearly that it's not yours. The mayor has reiterated. What part is unclear?
and so is the idea of space-saving itself.
Charge for resident permits and use the revenue for more plowing or some shit.
Charge for resident permits at near market rate, mark numbered spaces on the pavement to rent, and sell no more permits than there are spaces.
And don’t have any visitors... ever.
Logistically impossible, even if it was possible, there would be NO enforcement.
sell no more permits than there are spaces.
That's grossly inefficient. Not everyone works the same hours; people travel out of town, etc.
125 cars can share 100 spaces without even a hint of a conflict.
150 cars -- maybe occasionally someone doesn't get a space.
Now I'm not as much. I feel like charging will exacerbate the problem. People now think they own spots after shoveling snow away. Just imagine the entitlement some car owners will have once they pay the city for a permit.
how the heck is boston so myopic about our policies.
charging for permits isn't some fancy idea imported from the far off lands of new york, where they could never understand us - SOMERVILLE charges for permits, and it works well. granted, they charge far less than the real value of the space, but its still a token stating "this is city land and you're being granted the privilege of using it" and it keeps 1 family from parking 5,6, 10 cars all on city land. plus they have a guest permit system, which IMO is so much better than the shoddy "2 spots somewhere in the neighborhood maybe" program boston uses.
why can't we get it together and regionally benefit from good ideas, I'll never understand.
A fee - even a nominal one, as long as it increases with additional cars registered to the same household - can marginally drive down demand for street parking, by making it a little more expensive to just stash cars on the street.
Then you use the revenue to expand supply of parking (plowing etc). This isn't rocket science. You just have to figure out a way to allocate scarce urban space, and the current "system" is clearly broken.
"Funny things happen when you put zero in the denominator."
You probably don't need to charge a lot for parking permits. Just some number above zero might have a significant effect.
both residential and visitors' permits, but anybody who's 65 or over can get their parking permits free of charge.
Ban all street parking permanently forever no matter the weather. Use the space for nice things like bike lanes and flower pots.
"I can't believe that violence and threats, which happen every year and are the obvious and inevitable result of this system, are happening this year!"
....as the election for Mayor is over. Be prepared to see Marty start rolling out more vastly unpopular shit, raising taxes, etc, for the next 3 years and then being reeeeaaaallly nice for a year before the next election.
God, people are stupid.
We get what we deserve I suppose....
More than 27% of this city's registered voters should show up for an election.
Next time it snows shovel the snow into the street.
I’m pretty sure 40% (of the people who shoveled) have already been doing that. At least in Dot, Rox, JP they have
How does shoveling the snow back out into the street solve anything? It won't...it'll just make matters worse, and makes it more difficult to drive through it.
If cities and towns throughout the Commonwealth really wanted to find a place to put the excess snow, they'd put their heads together and do so. They're just being lazy as hell.
This whole space saver thing is almost like a broken record now. From the first flakes; where people put out space savers; to now, where the mayor has to say something about vandalism.
It's time to have a better snow plan that removes snow to the curb directly after the storm and removes the need for space savers, and also solves and fixes issues with bike, pedestrian, and for people with mobility issues like Amy.
But no, each and ever g-d year, we go thru this. We're not the only city that has snow folks, but we're one only few that does the space saver thing.
Yeah we're world class baby, we slash each others tires for taking a parking spot. *eye roll*
He referred to it as a "program"??
New resident of South Boston, but had previously lived in the South End for 10+ years where I was fortunate to have off-street parking.
Dug my car out Saturday morning, taking care to mound the snow and when I was done, clean up the adjacent sidewalk that had already been shoveled. I watched more than one of my neighbors use their AWD to pull out of their spots with no shoveling, but they all paused to retrieve an item from the trunk to put in their un-shoveld space. (effectively adding debris to the area that the city could try and re-plow if and when they could get closer to the curb)
On Monday, the next time I used my car, I put my cone in place and went to work, fully expecting it to be gone when I got home as the 48 hour rule was over. It was a test. Came home, still there. I felt guilty and it was stupid to effectively "hold" an open parking space for 8+ hours while I was away. I took the cone back and have been taking my chances for the past few nights where I have been fortunate to find areas that the City is cleaning up much later (around schools for one).
It's a bad system. Politically unpopular, but it should stop.
Does anyone know, does this insanity happen in any other major city? Just curious.
Chicago even has a name for it: Dibs.
people who go to the park a day in advance of a popular event, drive stakes into the ground, and mark off an area with yellow plastic tape, as though they were some kind of freakin' homesteaders claiming land in the old West.
There's a basic lack of understanding of the concept of a limited, shared, public resource here.
You might have made a typo (I do it all the time) but the last time the residents of Boston were asked, the practice of space saving after a big snow storm is very popular. Just not in the universe of Universal Hub commenters.
I may not have been clear. To be in opposition to the use of space savers would be politically unpopular, but it is the right thing to do.
My head's been murky today, so it might just be me.
in Mexico City. It can be kind of a complicated system in some neighborhoods (of all kinds, it knows no socioeconomic bracket) and you have to learn to "read" the street if you plan on parking. Not too long ago, saving spaces became officially illegal, and - just like in Boston - it´s a whole big controversial to-do in some areas, but - just like in Boston - it persists.
Gringos and Mexicans, not so different after all, amirite?
People here are surprised it gets to the point of vandalism and violence in Boston. They expect chaos and corruption here but have an image of more order up north.
These stories about cars (and bikes) always get a ton of attention from the bike riding do-gooders who think everyone who needs to own a car is somehow a drag on society. I really wish you guys/girls would just get over yourselves.
You need to find a place to put it.
You need to move somewhere that there is plenty of room for it.
Simple. Really that simple. Be like a grownup and plan ahead. Be like a grownup and take responsibility for yourself and your "needed" personal items.
So, you're saying no one who lives in the city should be allowed to own a car?
Did you serve your country? Did you fight in any wars? Did you get wounded, maybe lose a limb? If not, DO NOT TRY TO TAKE ANYONE ANYONE ELSE'S FREEDOMS AWAY! Just because you don't agree with something means you can stop people from making their choices. And I'm referring to owning a car, not using space savers.
xoxo, a 3 limbed marine
You can request a disabled street parking spot from the city. On Sumner, quite a few of my neighbors have them. They don't need the threat of vandalism and violence. Stunning, really.
Can you run that logic by us again?
Please show your work.
Until Uhub came along and gave all the whiners s forum.
I say again: BWA-HA-HA!
My evil plan is working! First I give a forum to people upset about space savers. Next I come to your house and force you to my house and DIG OUT MY PARKING SPACE!
SAY YOUR PRAYERS, LOSER!
because you could make anonymous felonious threats of bodily harm underscored by criminal property damage without fear of legal repercussions. "Gee, our old LaSalle ran great!"
Get with the rule-of-law times, meathead.
Space saving worked for years until the number of people wanting to park on the street exceeded the number of available spaces, at which point trying to reserve a space for your exclusive personal use became a matter of pig-headed hoarding rather than a matter of asking for neighborly courtesy.
... causing problems in Boston and Cambridge as far back as the ‘70s. Nasty notes, bullying and no where to park for daytime visitors.
There never was a good old days of space saving.
The whole space-saving business caused similar problems in Somerville, as well. After one too many knock-down/drag-out fights (People really did come to blows over parking spaces!), the city moved in and cracked down on space-saving.
I wanted to reinforce what Cybah posted above. The underlying problem with the space savers is the lack of parking due to poor snow plowing and removal. By not clearing the street to the curb, we lose both parking spaces and travel lanes. Granted, snow removal in a dense urban area can be challenging, but to leave the snow 5-10 feet from the curb for more than a week after the storm is not a solution. I've lived in the Boston area for more than 30 years and plowing here has always been second-rate, but it was even worse for this last storm. Most of the public and private crews that do the plowing would not last a week in Syracuse or Buffalo where a foot of snow overnight is a regular occurance.
At a minimum, the city should continue the parking restrictions for street cleaning throughout the winter and have crews remove the snow from the empty side of the streets. For significant snowfalls, the city should strongly consider odd-even parking on major streets in the 48-72 hours after the storm so crews can use heavy equipment to remove the snow to the curb, creating clear space to park the next day.
The underlying problem with the space savers is the lack of parking due to poor snow plowing and removal.
No the underlying problem with the space savers is the lack of parking. period.
The overlying problem with the space savers is poor snow plowing and removal.
Can't blame anyone for wanting to find a spot reasonably close to home when they get home from work or wherever they go during the day. But how is it fair to all of the people who legally use that spot at other times of day? Nannies, cleaning people, delivery drivers, etc all need short-term parking in residential areas and shouldn't be subjected to violence because they need to park somewhere for 2 minutes or 30 minutes or 2 hours.
Can't blame anyone for wanting to find a spot reasonably close to home when they get home from work
Can't blame anyone for wanting to be able to buy a nice 3 bedroom house in a nice neighborhood on the median area family income, either.
Or the midwest. Tons of parking there.
Seriously, I don't understand living in a city and expecting to have easy access to parking.
Many people use space savers to save a space they want - they didn't even dig it out! It's winter and they don't want to walk a block to their home, so they'll just plunk down some litter in the street and threaten harm if anyone moves it. I've seen space savers on top of mounds of snow! Are we now using space savers to call dibs on spots we'll EVENTUALLY shovel?
The whole thing is selfish and childish. Y'all need to grow up.
With that said, I respect the local tradition and wouldn't move a space saver. Would NEVER use one myself, though. Because I was brought up right.
Neighbors are going to video other neighbors using savers and ask for charges? Ain't happening.
I'm a Boston taxpayer in saver-ville Dot and I think it's all a tempest in a teapot. I deal with it.
I don't want my property taxes going up a penny over this issue.
Here's what i suggest:
A parking permit for ALL cars that park overnight in Boston. Nominal fee (waived for the elderly, etc.) but enough to bring in revenue. A higher fee for resident parking. Or an increase in the excise tax on cars that can't prove off-street parking.
Enforce these laws and use the permit and ticketing fees to pay for more plowing and extra trucks for removing savers in the winter and maybe other stuff.
... blow his hot air to melt some snow.
Make people use A-frame easel space savers (like the kinds in front of cafes, or "Wet Floor" signs.) The space saver must have the name, address, and contact info of the person who is claiming the spot.
Once you know that Joe Smith of 123 Massachusetts Avenue, Boston MA, 617-555-1234 is the person who vandalized your car for moving his space saver six days after the snowstorm..maybe Joe Smith will think twice about vandalizing cars.
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