Developer shrinks size of proposed waterfront condo complex in Boston's hardest neighborhood to reach by car

Rendering of proposed Port Norfolk development

Architect's rendering. See it larger.

The developer of a proposed condo project at the tip of Port Norfolk, filed plans with the state on Friday that show a much smaller development in response to vociferous neighbor complaints about a large project in an area largely cut off from the rest of the city by I-93 and Neponset Circle.

South Boston developer Ryan Sillery is now proposing a total of 96 condos in three buildings, rather than the 170 he first proposed last year, and the elimination of a 25-room boutique hotel, on a 3.6-acre site now occupied by a marina and boat sales and repair facility, next to the Venezia Restaurant.

The proposed Neponset Wharf would now have 170 parking spaces, down from the 185 first proposed, and 3,000 square feet of for a market and deli - down from 6,500. Sillery is also proposing to replace the current 95 marina slips with new slips and to build a new boat-storage building.

Roughly 2 acres of the site would be maintained as open space. Residential units would all be placed above the estimated flood line for major storms as predicted through 2070.

In addition to state environmental officials, the project also needs the approval of the BPDA.

Draft project impact report (67M PDF).

Map of site
Looking towards downtown

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Comments

Developer should replace the

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Developer should replace the parking lot with trees, grass, benches, maybe a playground for kids, and market the units to buyers who will rely on the T and/or bikes instead of cars.

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There are other options

Like, oh, landscaping? Shading the blight with solar panels ala many T parking lots and universities use.

You know - thinking about it and learning about alternatives? Nahhh too hard.

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Get Down To The Bank, Get a Loan

Go ahead any buy out the developers and build your tot lot and your panels.

There is a beach and a playground immediately west of here and a nice bike path and park just to the south of here. There is plenty of open space, including a river.

You need a car if you live in Port Norfolk. The streets are narrow and the restaurant there cannot depend on old ladies walking from North Quincy station to the site. House lots, owing that this is really a waterfront mill village, rarely have driveways, so street parking is at a premium already. Parking is needed for this site.

Have you actually ever been down there to merit a comment on this place?

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Such lacking grasp of factual reality

You know why the universities and t-stations are getting covered?

PAYS FOR ITSELF DEAR.

Honey, you not only need more imagination - you need more grasp of reality. The electricity coming off a parking lot covered in solar panels is enough to power your toys and precious air conditioning and such that companies will come and build these things for you - just like they built them for UMass, just like they are building them over other parking lots. The energy is worth that much.

Meanwhile, candyass people like you think that you will get hypothermia being outside in the rain for 2 seconds have much less mess to wade through to get to your giant power lounge when it snows or rains.

Once again I NEVER SAID THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT SHOULD NOT HAVE CARS. You are free to show where I said that. I merely said that this will be a horrible place to be on a hot day and THERE ARE SOLUTIONS TO THIS PROBLEM THAT ARE WIN WIN SOLUTIONS.

Maybe we should tie you to a light post on a giant open parking lot on a hot day and see how quickly you agree?

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To be fair

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You did jump down her throat for offering options that are found in the most car centric parking lots.

But yeah, anyone who claims they don’t need the parking has never been to Port Norfolk.

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And

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She never claimed that parking wasn't needed.

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Who the hell relies on the T

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Who the hell relies on the T these days? It's totally unreliable from one end to the other.

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(T)

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That's why I walk and bike when I'm not satisfied with the
(T)
:
;
I'd use a ride share but I'd demand to be picked up by a Lyft motorcycle for getting through traffic, even an e-tandem bicycle. Why add mass and bulk to the roads (arterial congestion) just to get my fat ass a couple miles?

I bet it would be more thrilling, too.
The older I get, the less my body responds to dopamine and adrenaline.
Living the X Dream. Yeah man.
X... Dream.

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What T?

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Where?

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Not the spot for T-centric development

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I'm all for it in general but not here. This is an isolated spot tough to get to by any means of transportation (except boat.) the development seems to small to warrant major alternative transportation solutions.

A shuttle to/from JFK would be nice but I doubt it would be on-time or reliable with Morrissey Blvd. traffic.

Biking will be better to JFK/ UMass station IF the dedicated bike lanes go in along Morrissey. Not sure of any current or future secure bike storage at the station though.

Similarly, there are no dedicated bike lanes across the Neponset River Bridge and Neponset Circle is decidedly friendly to non-auto traffic.

I think the artist's rendering is showing existing parking on other lots while looking at the new buildings. I skipped thru the proposal and it looks pretty well-balanced to me.

Only a matter of time before the other parcels get developed and maybe then a shuttle could be subsidized by the developments.

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This went sour fast... the

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This went sour fast... the huge parking Lot belongs to Venezia. It has been there for years. People don’t usually hang out there on hot days, unless they are hanging out in their cars.
There will be a dock which could accommodate a water shuttle;
Channel would need to be dredged, or shuttles schedules around rides.

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Train

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You know, if this gets built, then it could be a catalyst to getting Neponset Station built like some have proposed. Its almost walkable to the proposed site (or the former Old Colony station)

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One Problem With Neponset Station

It would be really hard to do a station at this part of Neponset. I have been only thinking about it since we walked from the Murphy to Fields Corner. Then take a train to Andrew (No double JFK platforms then) and then back track to Quincy Center to go to Peacefield when I was 9. Then reverse the process 2 hours later.

It would have to be a center platform like North Quincy with good access and you would need the trains to have enough time to slow down from coming over the bridge. You also have to have an elaborate crossover so as not to interfere with the 3 commuter rail lines that go through there.

I am not going to say that things are happening for a reason but people are paying ridiculous amounts of money for old industrial buildings off of Tenean Street but some body might be landbanking there for a reason other than a place to park money.

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John, Which industrial

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John, Which industrial buildings off Tenean Street? I am trying to find on the City of Boston website.

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96 units aren't going to move the dial on Neponset Station

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I'd love to see it but I think we'll need a lot more development in that area. I think John C. is on the right track with the Tenean Street land. That area is ripe for a big project and T-oriented would fit great here.

Plus if it's sited correctly no would be no immediate residential abutters: big factor in cutting down opposition.

Would love to see mixed development with a T stop here.

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???

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I am puzzled by the title of this thread. How is this "Boston's hardest neighborhood to reach by car?" Clearly it is not. DT Boston is 15 minutes away via the automobile. Try doing that from Hyde Park.

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There are numerous ways to get to Hyde Park

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From the north, there's Hyde Park Ave, Poplar/West Streets, River Street, and the parkway system through Stony Brook. I can count at least 3 points of access from Dedham and numerous points of access from Milton. In short, Hyde Park is not a hard neighborhood to reach.

Port Norfolk, on the other hand, has been largely cut off from the rest of the world since the Old Colony Railroad laid track there in the 1840s. If you've ever been there, you'd appreciate how hard it is to get there.

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oh stop

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I did not say Hyde Park was hard to reach, and I acknowledge that this large development creates a large amount of traffic in a neighborhood that has only two entrances. However, I said Port Norfolk is not the hardest neighborhood to get to by car citing the fact that you can be in the center of the city from the front door of this development fairly quickly as opposed to other neighborhoods. Also, I lived in Neponset as a teenager and have lived in Dorchester, off and on, most of my life, I know the area and its history quite well. It was actually the construction of the expressway and the blvds that leveled most of Neponset village and cut off Port Norfolk from the rest of the world, not the train.

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And Adam didn't say

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It was the hardest neighborhood to reach from downtown. I can walk to Hyde Park from my house- heck, the playground we usually use is in Hyde Park- so it is definitely not hard to reach in general. Port Norfolk, as you note, has two roads in, and one only one of those roads is one that outsiders would generally know about. Therefore, it is very hard to reach.

If we want to be specific, the Sprague Street area of Hyde Park would be the toughest to reach the rest of Boston from (barring the islands, of course) as there is only one street linking it to the rest of the city, but the rest of Hyde Park is well connected with both the city and the world overall.

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Point.taken

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Okay, so using that logic I would point out that this development is in Boston so it takes exactly zero minutes to get there by car and is two minutes by car from my childhood home, outside Port Norfolk. However when you see a sign that says Boston 10 miles, they mean from the Boston Stone

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And then what

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Where do you put your car?

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“filed plans with the state

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“filed plans with the state on Friday that show a much smaller development in response to vociferous neighbor complaints about a large project in an area largely cut off from the rest of the city by I-93 and Neponset Circle.”
Was the redesign all because of neighbors? Did you read any of the letters from City and state officials and agencies?

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Transit Oriented Development Please

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More transit oriented development please. This seems like a great project, but that area is a transit desert with the Red Line's Braintree branch running through it with no stop, making driving a more attractive option. It's 2018. Where's the innovation and drive to have to collaborate and make this city more efficient where it's already not?

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So this shouldn't be built?

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I mean, if you were a neighbor griping about the traffic, I could see that, but why shouldn't this be built?

TOD is great, but new housing overall is better.

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I think it is deceptive to

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I think it is deceptive to push for transit oriented development with such an unreliable transit system.

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Pick your poison...

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If you take the T rather than pay for parking you have a lot more money to go towards your housing.

Sure, it's a shit-show sometimes but I would just email my boss and then deal with it.

( I lived near a T stop but not a specific development.

Much better than traffic and paying for parking. To each his own but I'll take the occasional train delays over daily insanity on 93 and in town.

Plus it's self-fulfilling I think. Focus more on transit and then more stake-holders fight for better transit.

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I should have elaborated. The

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I should have elaborated. The T should be fixed to allow more housing. With the rents in Boston many have to rely on the T in order to live here. I’d just hate to think that people will move to transit oriented development with strict schedules, child care, school drop off/pick up, etc and end up screwed. You’re right, people can pick their poison, hopefully newcomers do their research.

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