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Quincy mayor to Walsh: If you want to put addicts back on Long Island, buy a ferry
By adamg on Tue, 01/02/2018 - 2:22pm
Quincy Mayor Tom Koch said today that not only will he fight plans to rebuild the Long Island Bridge, he wants a say on any developments on Long Island.
In a message posted today, Koch said that while he appreciates Marty Walsh's commitment to recovery, as well as a courtesy call Walsh made before announcing his intentions to rebuild the bridge, Walsh should not count on any support for the bridge on the other side of the Neponset.
Although Boston owns Long Island, the road approaches to the former bridge go through Quincy. Since the evacuation of the island's homeless shelters and treatment facilities in 2014, the island has been used only for a summer camp and a farm handed over to the b.good chain.
Koch wrote:
While I appreciate Mayor Walsh’s intentions, I see no reason why any vision for the reuse of Long Island cannot be achieved through water transportation. To stake the future of the island to a new bridge just doesn’t make sense to me – both from a financial perspective and from a neighborhood perspective.
Mayor Walsh called me on Sunday to let me know he’d be announcing his intention to rebuild the bridge during his Inaugural, and I appreciate the open lines of communication he has created with our community since taking office. I also have a great deal of respect for his vision and his commitment to our shared fight against addiction. I’m confident that this communication and an open dialogue between the two cities will continue as the future vision for the Island takes shape. Quincy must have a seat at the table
In the weeks after the bridge's closing, Boston public-health officials rejected the idea of ferrying patients to the island by boat because of possible problems getting them to a hospital for acute care during bad weather.
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Comments
Allergic to rebuilding things?
Tom Koch, that is?
He should have the nickname "tiny".
One question for Mayor Koch
How many Quincy born or residing addicts are treated in Boston?
Boston should be sending
Boston should be sending bills to all the deadbeat cities and towns throughout Massachusetts and greater New England that deport their addicts to Boston.
105 of them.
give or take 3.
86 born in Boston Hospitals,
17 North Quincy graduates
27 Quincy High graduates
5 BC High graduates.
I think the issue is paying tens of millions of dollars for a bridge. Not really cost effective.
not a leg to stand on
Looking at the map, I don't think Mayor Koch has standing to oppose the effort to rebuild L.I. bridge. My take is that he voicing an objection because the people who live nearby prefer to eliminate the traffic.
I don't think he has standing to oppose the bridge because L.I bridge goes between two Boston owned properties Moon Island and Long Island. The public thoroughfare from squaw rock to Moon Island is intact. Although you can delay efforts with injunctions I don't see Quincy as having the legal authority to prohibit Boston from rebuilding the bridge and then gaining access to it via public thoroughfare.There's been an easement since before it was built in 1950 that would be Moon Island Road. They don't want the addicts. Neither does Roxbury near Cass and Mass.
what public thoroughfare?
There's a police gatehouse at the Squaw Rock end of the causeway and you can't drive onto it.
Wecurity for BPD gun range on Moon Island.
The road itself is a easement
Until the 1990s you could
Until the 1990s you could walk to Long Island. Once the causeway became too decrepit to safely walk across and BPD/BFD decided that having the public potentially wandering into the active firing range/fire training school was unsafe, the little booth went up to restrict access.
Restrictions in place in mid 1980s
Visited a patient at a nursing home there during mid 80s and there was a guard before you got to moon island.
The booth.....
Is staffed by Department of Mental Health Police officers. I think they are called "campus" police officers in the state system, but that booth is not staffed by Quincy or Boston police officers.
In terms of police/fire jurisdiction, Boston (and I assume other cities) often will respond to address in bordering towns because of geography. If there was a fire or crime on Long Island, the Quincy police and fire would show up (with the DPH having police authority on the actualy property).
There is a "gated" (with a chain) road in Brookline with two address in Boston (Sgt. Crossway off of Perkins St.) The last two houses are in Boston but if they call 911 the Brookline Police and Fire will respond). I'm guessing if there were a murder or something the Boston police would have jurisdiction but it's making me think now.....
Simple solution
For $100 million, buy some suitably zoned land in Quincy and just build the shelter there. Is moon island suitable?
Just do what's best from a cost/services standpoint. Who cares where they put it?.
At $100 million and even $400 per sf, you can build a pretty decent facility with hundreds of beds.
What suitable zoned land in Quincy?
That's ridiculous. The buildings on Long Island were built in the early 20th century when buildings were actually built well. That's how they got away with zero maintenance for so many years. The Idea that you could build a comparable facility in Quincy for even 100 million is dumb.
There are definite negatives to shipping off the cities undesirables, but it is helpful with substance abuse. We provided support and care without locking anyone up. If you wanted to leave, it couldn't be an impulse. You had to wait for transportation.
Did you know all the buildings are connected by tunnels?
$100 million
And modern building standards in a mainland setting are worse than 75 year old buildings on an island?
Can I come live in your imaginary lucy in the sky with diamonds world?
yes, buildings were built
yes, buildings were built better prior to WWII, and no trolls are welcome.
Lucy, lucy, Lucy
What will we do w u?
Having worked at a BPHC
Having worked at a BPHC program on Long Island, BEMS responds to medical calls and there is a Boston Fire House on the island itself. I also worked at a volunteers of America program and for any non-emergency (aka sect 12s), they used a private ambulance company.
Moon Island
Moon Island is within Quincy’s jurisdiction but fully owned by Boston
Are you're saying
Are you're saying the laws of Quincy apply on Moon Island but it's owned by Boston. I doubt it. Got a link?
It is
It is in Quincy. You could have just googled it, but
For others interested
It's basically the first couple of sentences in the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Island_(Massachusetts)
(you'll want to copy/paste that whole thing because I'm bad at using the link features on here).
under the jurisdiction
Moon Island (Massachusetts) Wiki:
The wiki says " [Moon] island is under the jurisdiction of Quincy, Massachusetts" but the footnote, a Boston Globe article, doesn't seem to back that up:
BostonGlobe:
universalhub comment 643583
http://www.universalhub.com/comment/643583#comment-643583
Quincy has no laws - but the
Quincy has no laws - but the state does. Quincy has regulations.
SI pero no.
Technically, you are correct. In reality, however, Mayor Joch abides by neither.
Addicts in Boston
It is a shame when you have to drive pass Malnea Cass Highway, Massachusetts Ave., (near Boston Medical Center, the addicts just hang around, trust me it is not a pretty site at all.
But
It's not Quincy's money, right?
I'm a newish (past few years) Quincy resident&I'm befuddled by the vitriolic negative response. How much traffic are we talking? My understanding was that it was buses running people back and forth (and not disembarking anywhere in Quincy). I thought it was just a few buses in the morning&again in the afternoon/evening - am i mistaken?
(And, no snark - I'm really genuinely curious about why Quincy is making such a big deal about this when i can't identify the dog it has in this fight)
What about all the people who
What about all the people who will work there, supplies, deliveries....the list goes on and on.
Honestly
Being objective, there are 3 reasons why both Koch and Phelan, rivals that have alternated the mayor’s office practically forever, have been against repairing and now rebuilding the bridge.
First, until about 20 years ago, the shelter dropped off the residents at North Quincy station in the morning, basically dumping the homeless problem in Quincy (ignoring that there were probably homeless Quincy residents, but whatever). To be fair to Boston, they stopped doing that, but this is New England, where we remember things.
Second, Boston barred access to the island to Quincy residents. Well, they barred access to most Boston residents, too, but what does Quincy care about that. They want to be able to visit the island and Boston said no.
Third, Moon Island. Part of Quincy but owned by Boston. Boston uses the island as a shooting range, bomb disposal area, and fire training. Essentially, Boston does in Quincy the crap they don’t want to do in Boston.
Sure, I blame those a-holes Koch and Phelan, but Menino acted like Menino and now we are where we are.
Thank you
Very useful, i appreciate your insights.
Er, ah, the plan is to open a
Er, ah, the plan is to open a large residential detox facility, not reestablish Long Island's former level of overnight homeless shelter capacity. That and Boston has every legal right to do so no matter what anyone thinks to the contrary, including rebuilding the bridge on its dime.
Em, okay
But I don’t mention that. I just note the history, which, you’d be surprised to know, concerns the past, not the present or the future.
Boston cannot connect the bridge to Moon Island without the input of Quincy.
Quincy is being Quincy
What you need to appreciate is how Quincy lifers believe that the rules don't apply to them. Do so and suddenly a whole lot of the local nonsense will make sense.
Born?
Very funny!
Only a scant few communities have their own maternity service hospital, and even then it is regional. Anybody less than 30 years old would have been born at South Shore Hospital or in Boston.
Does this Mayor Koch go around asking..
"How'm I doin'?"
Heh
I think he pronounces his name differently.
Good stuff.
Why waste money on a bridge. You could probably build and staff 4 centers for about 25 years with the same money used for a bridge.
Or you could use a ferry
It's not too far that they couldn't get people off in a hurry in case of an emergency and they can close shop in the rare cases where a big storm is approaching. Inhabited islands aren't exactly new.
Or Boston could figure out a way to construct
a new bridge without having to use an approach road that goes through Quincy.
Just don't build them in
Just don't build them in Dorchester or Roxbury or Mattapan. We're already overloaded with halfway houses and homeless shelters. Let's build them right in Downtown Boston, next to Saint Frances House.
I'm not opposed
but where are you going to put them? The NIMBY runs strong in this state, and I can't imagine you'd get through the legal battles that would ensue from proposing a spot in (say) Boston for any cheaper than the cost of the bridge.
Let's put toll booths in
Let's put toll booths in Boston at the end of the Neponset Bridge. If Quincy people want to drive on Boston roads, let them pay! :-P
Whatever We Must Do
Please don’t make my dumpling run from Dorchester to Quincy any more expensivre than it needs to be. :p
Emergency transport
It would be much cheaper to have a helipad and medivac patients in an emergency than to build a new bridge.
Wouldn't helicopter transport
Wouldn't helicopter transport also be difficult in inclement weather? Or would a helicopter be better than a boat transport?
citation or pooya?
Sincere question.
I'm wondering where you, and others here, are getting the data that the cost of running a ferry service, and medivacing patients and staff in the case of dangerous weather, would be less than the cost of constructing a bridge.
IANACE, but looking online, it seems like US based ferry services of similar size cost ~5mil/year to operate. The estimate for the LI bridge replacement is $80m. Even figuring in a million or so per year in maintenance and repair, that's still a break even of less than two decades for a more robust solution.
Is there any publically available analysis (even very rough) of the costs of these proposed solutions yet?
Mea Culpa, I didn't think a Mayor could be that dumb.
But we are seeing real Kelly's-In-The-Square grade intelligence here.
In the weeks after the bridge
Best to just let them die in the street then. We can build them a shelter, but since we can't build it in a manner that EMS can get to them fast enough, we're not allowed to build it at all.
Nice NIMBY play, Mayor Koch.
Nice NIMBY play, Mayor Koch. Did this guy stop pretending to play a Democrat yet and finally switch to the Republicans? Where should the Boston hospitals and social services send the bill for all the Quincy residents we treat here? Shameless.
I'm certain Quincy's mayor
I'm certain Quincy's mayor would be singing a different tune if Boston wanted to build luxury housing on Long Island and re-connect it to the mainland. "Oh, we'd love to have your well-to-do driving through our town".
BTW - did the old shelter ever create problems in Quincy? I can't imagine it was more than a few buses and employee cars driving across the bridge each day.
34 times a day for the MBTA shelter bus on weekdays
The shelter I worked at had 6 trips back and forth to North Quincy. And of course, all the employees.
So actually the bus trips were frequent, but the buses didn't stop anywhere in quincy so other than the bus noise I guess you just hate people. By the way, 12 of the morning routes were express to the financial district in Boston.
What I would actually like to know is, what is the legal method for Quincy preventing bridge reconstruction. A legal challenge could add to the costs.
Ah, ok
That's useful. So it was more than a few buses. But, uh, is that it? That's what Quincy is mad about? (Not asking this to anyone in particular, just still, as expressed above, trying to wrap my head around why Quincy is reacting as if Walsh suggested paving over the harbor or something)
Maybe those kids who found
Maybe those kids who found the missing millions from TD Garden can find a way to get the money. If they could find that, God know where else they could find "promised" money. Can we ask Millennium Partners, or The Boston Foundation, or any other of these Mega Wealthy hobnobbers for some cash ? What about the epic-wealthy Chinese investors? I say we hire those smart kids to find some money to build the bridge since they seem be more results-oriented than our politicians.
The Bridge will never be built
Marty will send Senator Liz to lobby President Trump for federal funds for the project. Trump would rather give federal funds to the Rocket Man in North Korea to rebuild his bridge to China than give money to Liz and Fast Eddie to rebuild the bridge to Long Island.
Dude, calm down
Walsh said Boston would pay for the bridge. We're talking $100 million, not $1 billion.
$1 billion?
Remember the big dig? That came in a few bucks over budget, as I recall. That bridge could end up being a billion buck boondoggle when all's said and done. History has a way of repeating itself.
Moon Island
Moon Island is a bit of an oddity, legally speaking. It is within the City of Quincy, but the property owner is the City of Boston. Therefore Boston needs a building permit from Quincy before they can begin construction. Both parties have been through this several times recently with regard to projects at the Police Range and the Fire Academy.
Everyone (boston residents)
Everyone (boston residents) should get to use Long Island - it should not be restricted use. It would be a great nature area. If we pay for it we should be able to use it!! Build the bridge.
It was a great nature area -
It was a great nature area - I used to go birding there, and I drove across the bridge to do it. There are beautiful views of the harbor and the city, but you can't access them unless you're an addict or mentally ill.
If the homeless are so precious to Boston, then house them in Boston, not on an island. You do know that the harbor islands are traditionally where Boston put its prisons and glue factories, right? Now, they dump life's disabled, and they're proud of themselves.
Build the damn bridge. Quincy
Build the damn bridge. Quincy, never knew it to be filled with such snobs. It's not as if it's in rural
western Massachusetts... yes, there will be traffic, shocker.
This is the section of Quincy
This is the section of Quincy where a few residents own million dollar homes. That's the reason Koch is putting up such a stink.
It's an old stink
When Koch first started raising it, the homes were only worth a half million, three quarters of a million tops.
Slight edit- I think I've been confusing Koch and Sheets. Whatever, there's been a stink emanating from Quincy about this for decades.