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Doyle's closes for the last time
By adamg on Sun, 10/27/2019 - 10:09am
The venerable Jamaica Plain bar closed for the final time last night. All that's left now is the auctioning off of all its posters and paintings and memorabilia, and the inevitable announcement of a plan for condos on the site.
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Were you there?
I was there
We'd been meaning to go over the last few days but it's been one of those weeks. I was watching the evening news and they mentioned that it was the last night. So I grabbed my coat and got there about 11:30. Sign on the door said they were at capacity, and there were a couple fellows outside acting as gatekeepers, but I think they were mostly there to dissuade 'tourists'. The main room was quite crowded - the bar was mobbed - the middle and back were much quieter.
Bumped into Rick B. at the bar, and we spoke for a couple minutes. He seemed in good spirits for the most part - and of course *everyone* wanted to say hello to him. Then I got myself a Guinness and wandered about, exchanging a few words with folks, but mostly just absorbing the atmosphere one last time, looking at all the things hung on the walls that I'd looked at a million times before, but wouldn't ever see again, sitting in a few of my favorite booths and remembering all the good times I'd spent there with friends and family over the last 36 years.
At midnight they shouted out 'Last call!" and locked the door. The crowd kept drinking and having a good time - the mood was surprisingly upbeat, albeit tinged with wistfulness, especially from us old geezers.
I left shortly before 1, after lifting one last toast to the place and the people who had loved her.
And yeah, I kept the glass.
Nice narrative, I still
Nice narrative, I still remember the few stairs on Williams street for some reason, and that was a long time ago!
Better a bunch of places to
Better a bunch of places to live than one to drink alcohol... there will never be a shortage of those.
Wanna bet?
Try getting a drink now on Washington Street between the Arborway and Green Street that doesn't involve loud music now that both the Drinking Fountain and Doyle's are closed (nothing against the Midway, but if you're in the mood to just sit and talk with some friends, or even just stand and commiserate over a beer, it's not exactly the place to do it).
Or try getting a drink anywhere in all of Mattapan.
I could continue and talk about "third spaces" and the need for community gathering spots that help create true neighborhoods instead of souless agglomerations of investor-owned units, but I suspect you're just too bitter, for whatever the reason, to care.
We do have an unpolished gem...for now...
We do have an unpolished gem...for now...
Turtle Swamp?
Probably the only place that fits that criteria now (but doesn't work that well if you're not a beer drinker)
This.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aside from Bella Luna which is more restaurant than bar, there is no place to get a drink between Forest Hills and what’s now called the Fort Point Bar and Grill which is like halfway to Dudley from Egleston. Nothing in Egleston, nothing near Green, now that Doyle’s, the Stag (later the Gate) and the Drinking Fountain are gone. It seems so weird to be able to sell a neighborhood liquor license so it can go to a fancy place downtown without being able to replace a local spot. I don’t want to have to go five miles to have a drink.
Maybe all of these places are
Maybe all of these places are closed down because no one lives within walking distance because there's only 1-3 families for miles surrounding it.
Maybe the reason that all the liquor licenses/bars are moving downtown is not some conspiracy to destroy outer neighborhoods but rather than fact that there are multiple floors of customers living right above those businesses and hundreds more on the same block.
Businesses can't survive on good memories and "neighborhood feel." They need paying customers. Not "I used to love going to that place 10 years ago" customers but "We go there every weekend customers."
And that only happens when you get a concentration of people in one area to regularly go to the bar.
Will there be
a support group for those deeply affected by this tragedy?
/s
Condos
I thought that there was some sort of physical limitation on the site preventing anything large being built there. What size building is possible?
Oh, good point
Yes, Stony Brook flows right under it.
But if developers can win approval for six-story buildings atop a subway tunnel, maybe they could win similar permission to build atop what is now Doyle's.
I just looked up the terms of the part of the property that used to be owned by the BWSC:
In 2005, the BWSC sold the 2,200 square feet of land it had been leasing to Doyle's at Washington and Williams streets for $5,000 - but with a permanent easement for the big pipe that is now Stony Brook and with the condition that nothing larger than one story be built on that particular bit of land. So anything taller than that would require some major negotiations with the BWSC even before they get to the BPDA and the zoning board.
Here's another twist: In addition to the BWSC parcel, the cafe and its parking lot across the street sit on several thousand additional square feet of land, which Edward Burke owned outright (and which he leased to his nephew, Gerald, who owned Doyle's, the business). I'll need to get out a calculator to total up the size of these parcels, all but one of which do not seem to be subject to a BWSC easement, but which seem to be enough land to allow for some decent sized development.
People are misinterpreting
People are misinterpreting that easement and its meaning. It allows a one-story building there because that's what was already there at the time the property was sold and easement was granted. It was basically retroactively allowing the building to remain. There's no reason to think a new multi-story building on top of it would be a problem for BWSC as long as the pipe underneath can still be accessed. There are multi-story buildings on top of large pipes all over the city, it wouldn't be unusual or a problem necessarily. People that want to prevent development there are hanging their hat on a simple sewer easement that they think is a building prohibition - two very different things.
That may be, but ...
Putting something taller atop that one sliver of the site would still require negotiations with the BWSC and the filing of a new easement at the Registry - in addition to the usual BPDA/zoning issues. The easement, for what it's worth, doesn't just call for a one-story building, it has some fairly specific requirements for construction of the basement floor as well.
Ultimately, though, I'm not disagreeing witb you - the property in question is only a relatively small piece of the overall site and it'd be easy to imagine some sort of one-story lobby leading to an elevator just beyond the easement line (and if nothing else, it would be a break from the similar architecture now sprouting along Washington).
for rich people? Where are
for rich people? Where are they finding all these rich people to fill the condos?
:(
Glad I stopped in for lunch on Friday with a friend from San Diego. So much for celebrating my 50th birthday with a pint of Guinness and a shot of Jameson...
Damn Shame
It feels like JP has lost its soul. Doyle’s truly was the place where everyone was welcome. Of all the changes JP has gone through, this one has seemed to hit many people the hardest. My family had many dinners and events there over the decades. So sad to see the lights out there tonight. R. I. P.
why are you all so sure someone wont save it
no one knows what comes next - maybe someone will propose to revive it
Unfortunately, that won’t happen.
The liquor license for Doyle’s was unfortunately sold to the now overpriced and tacky local chain who sells their appetizers at double the price in the freezers of 7-11, Davio’s, at their new space, and the South Boston Seaport gets yet ANOTHER of the city’s liquor licenses! So no, unless the state agrees to more for Boston and especially in areas OTHER than the Seaport, we know for a fact that yet another amazing piece of Boston history has fallen victim to GENTRICIDE!
JP lost it's soul long before
JP lost it's soul long before this.
I hate to say it but......
The johnny come lately crowd that wants to save Doyle's is the same crowd that stopped patronizing the joint. The Midway is next if you fraudsters (not hipsters) don't buy a burger to keep these joints in business. Look no further than the mirror when you ask why Doyle's went under, my fair weather phony friends.....
Doyle's
Do you happen to know when the auction will be?