South Boston property owner proposes new residential building with more parking spaces than units

Architect's rendering of 765 East 3rd St.

Architect's rendering.

The owners of a decades-old South Boston electric contracting firm has filed plans for a four-story, 25-unit residential building on East 3rd St., between O and P streets - with parking spaces for 37 cars.

Richard and Joy Cox of Quincy, who own Thomas W. Cox Electrical Co., want to combine three lots they own for construction of the $8.5-million building at 765 East 3rd St.

All but one of the units would have two bedrooms; the remaining unit would have one. Of the 25 units - the filing does not specify if they would be apartments or condos - 3 would be marketed as affordable.

The 37 proposed parking spaces in an underground garage is two more than would be required by the lot's zoning - unusual these days when developers outside of leafier neighborhoods such as West Roxbury and Hyde Park typically propose far fewer parking spaces than required by zoning.

The Coxes hope to begin construction in early 2020, with completion targeted for the fall of 2021.

765 East 3rd St. small-project review application (17.6M PDF).

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Comments

It's nice, too, when a

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It's nice, too, when a complex has a couple of spots for visitor parking or a pull-in spot for deliveries/taxi/uber.

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Uber spot

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll put a bike lane out front for that purpose.

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Voting closed 5

Off-street spots, which is

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Off-street spots, which is what the news item is about.

You're so eager, you have so much of an ax to grind... that you jump in with a counterpoint when there's nothing to counter. Have you noticed yet how being disagreeable causes people to take you less seriously?

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We should just call these

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We should just call these parking garages with residential units.
All the parking spaces in new developments, especially office buildings, are the main reason we have become the city with the worst rush hour traffic. Walsh "i'm a car guy" is a coward stuck in the 50s pushing parking everywhere while otter cities around the us are cutting parking and investing in transit and walkability.

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Otter cities

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Otter cities would be adorable

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Have you thought

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That they’re giving the community and potential buyers/renters something they want- parking? Parking appears to be an issue in the neighborhood.

Is Walsh a coward, or is he more of a realist than you are?

(By the way, I don’t think Walsh had anything to do with this.)

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I guarantee

I guarantee that the apartments would sell or condos would rent with one space per unit.

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Most will

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37 spots, 25 units. Not every unit will come with 1.48 parking spaces.

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Coward?

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That seems a little strong. He could just be a guy who thinks cars are super valuable. I'm a "car guy" and I also happen to be courageous

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That’s a step in the right

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That’s a step in the right direction. Will they be priced to encourage families to move back into the city or will it be another box filled with transients?

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Families

Families move out of the city. Singles and couples tend to stay.

Oh, sorry - I forgot that data and facts are not your strong suit

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Want housing to be affordable

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Want housing to be affordable? Get rid of parking. Two underground parking spaces cost approximately 62,000 to construct. Value people over cars.

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Are you saying...

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Developers and their customers should spend that money on providing housing, or that people that can afford $62k apartments should live underground?

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Define "transient"

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I'm betting that, to you, it means OMG some of these people weren't born in their living rooms!!!!!
The official meaning is far different.

You know why these apartments are going up? Because people don't want to move out of their neighborhoods when they start making more money.

You know why people move around? Unlike you, their check doesn't come every month no matter where they are. They move around to move up in the job market.

I know people your age didn't have to do that - you had jobs for life in places where your daddy did.

Too bad. Things change. You don't get to run the world.

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Southie Old Timer Logic

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Step 1: Complain about more cars in neighborhood
Step 2: Seek more parking, which encourages more cars in neighborhood
Step 3: Keep complaining, blame 'transients'

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This is the perfect type of

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This is the perfect type of development if we want more of that in Boston:

"Household vehicles growing much faster than population"
"According to Census data compiled by New York transportation consultant Bruce Schaller, the number of households in Boston owning vehicles rose faster between 2012 and 2017 than the population as a whole. The total number of household vehicles grew 15 percent over the period, while the population increased just 7 percent."

Source worth reading:
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/transportation/bostonians-clinging-to-t...

A somewhat shocking and sobering statistic considering all the talk about transit oriented development.

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People move here thinking its a Big City

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Then quickly realize that relying on a subway/bus for grocery shopping and running errands in the Metro area is a waste of time, energy, and a complete p.i.t.a.

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i love this comment so much i

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i love this comment so much i want to marry it. YES — the T sucks, cars suck but are quicker than the T or bus if you don’t live in a square

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Keep in mind though

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Many of the people moving into the city are empty nesters from the burbs who move in with multiple cars (talked to one a few years back that was bringing in SIX cars!). In my experience they slowly tend to go down to zero or one car. Good data point - but more analysis is probably in order to see who is bringing in all these cars. if it's the over 60 set that is downsizing - we'll probably see this reverse. If it's the 20 and 30 somethings are coming from that can afford multiple spots and multiple cars - we've got more of a problem (although not sure where all the 20/30 somethings that can afford multiple cars and multiple spots are coming from)

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Why Cave In?

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Boston needs more cheap and owner occupied family housing, and the people to go with it. So instead of catering to the opposite we need to scare away all these transients.
Boston should tax the hell out of those parking spaces and the tenants so they go back to Connecticut or whatever scum hole they came from.

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Realistic ,parking

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Realistic ,parking underground , apartment size , if you dont like it , buy the dang thing and build what you want with your own money. Reminds me of Thompson Square , the buildings that are now beside the packy , that was formerly a big open dirt lot. You wouldnt even know there was parking if you didnt know .

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Yes!

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Let's keep it as 3 semi-vacant lots! That will solve everything.

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It's good to see some

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It's good to see some development with adequate parking.

Maybe (and I realize this is pretty much a pipe dream) is to set up law and zoning such that at any redevelopment/construction that includes some threshold amount of sufficient parking - on-street parking is then eliminated on that block.

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Then block by block we can

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Then block by block we can transform the city into downtown Miami.

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I would never buy in Southie w/o Parking

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I would have never bought a condo without off street parking in South Boston as on street parking is insane having to drive around looking for a space, space savers, snow, etc. We have limited grocery stores in the neighborhood. Stop and Shop on Broadway as a sick joke and Foodies is too small and limited. I have to go to Star Market by JFK to get everything I need (they overall stink too - so here's hoping for a good grocery store to come to the Seaport/South Boston). So yes I need to drive to the grocery store. I need to drive to the vet. And I drive to get out of town on several weekends. I commute by bus or Red line to work. So even though I rarely drive my car, I want it available to me. And I bet that is the case for most residents except those that have a job away from downtown and Back Bay. That said - it you are looking to buy a 3BR/2BA townhouse condo with a private 2 car attached garage in South Boston - let me know! :)

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I would have never bought a

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I would have never bought a condo without off street parking in South Boston

And that's fine. That's your preference and you can clearly afford it. The point is that there are people looking to buy without off-street parking, so you should allow that housing to be built. Don't be selfish and assume everyone else's priorities are also yours.

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Most Southie homes have no offstreet parking already...

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Most of the homes and condos in Southie (older ones) have no offstreet parking. That's why on street parking is such an issue in Southie. So believe me, the supply of housing in Southie with no offstreet parking is plenty. So go buy one and enjoy looking for parking for a 1/2 to one hour each time.

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Did We Just Enter a Time Warp?

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What a step backward. You don't have to be right on top of a T station to be transit-oriented. This site is right off of 4 bus lines with frequent service. Congestion is already a huge concern in Southie--how is adding 37 more cars to city streets going to help anything? As others have pointed out, in addition to incentivizing car ownership by providing "free" parking, this drives up the cost of each unit and takes away space that could be devoted to additional units. I really hope the BPDA objects.

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Ok

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Would you rely on bus service as your primary mode of transportation? Have you looked at a map/street view of that area? It's residential. maybe 1 liquor store/grocery store/drugstore within a couple miles of that spot.

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I DO Rely on the Bus

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Yes, I would rely on the bus as my primary mode of transportation--that's what I do currently in Charlestown (I'm not that close to the T and the Orange Line is largely a joke anyway). Our six member household owns one car that we use roughly once a week. We have one grocery store, one pharmacy, and a couple of liquor stores within one mile. As for this site, the immediate blocks may be primarily residential but this is an easy walk to the shops and restaurants on Broadway (and only 1/2 mile to the Stop and Shop). I just can't see the need for all of this parking or more importantly for all of those cars.

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Not your hood

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Here in Southie the neighborhood doesn't want developments that do not offer offstreet parking. We even got an exemption from typical parking limits the city imposes to increase what a developer puts in. There is no on-street parking left so the neighborhood wants to relieve this if development continues. Lack of parking is a major concern. The traffic issues in Southie are not local drivers, it's commuters from the South Shore cutting through on L/Summer, A St, and D St. And don't assume those 37 cars are going to be on the road everyday. And frankly I hear plenty of similar complaints in Charlestown about the lack of on street parking, about cut through traffic to avoid Sullivan Square (not local, commuters..), and about development. So I don't think your views even represent Charlestown as a whole.

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The City really needs to

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The City really needs to start charging money for residential parking permits. The fact that people can park their cars for free results in people holding onto their cars that they only use occasionally, taking up valuable spaces that people need who drive to work or need a car on a daily basis. If people were forced to pay the true market value for parking, some would reconsider whether they need to actually own a car in the first place, and choose to use ZipCar or Uber/Lyft for occasional trips or purchase off-street parking.

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