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Baker slows our corona roll
By adamg on Fri, 08/07/2020 - 2:03pm
WBUR reports Gov. Baker today announced a reduction in the maximum size of gatherings from 100 to 50, a and a halt in further reopening efforts due to a recent upsurge in Massachusetts Covid-19 cases. He also authorized state and local police to start fining people who flout the rules.
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MWRA data looking pretty concerning
The MWRA viral tracking data is not looking good at all:
The individual sample and 3-sample average for "North" is the highest since mid May and the 7-sample average is the highest since June.
And this wastewater data is considered a leading indicator for cases.
So that's really not good,
So that's really not good, but out of curiosity, could part of this have to do with all the strong quick rains in any way last week, early this week?
The reason I ask was that a number of lakes were closed for e-coli/fecal matter related water quality issues this week with a supposition that the higher fecal matter could be linked to flash flooding.
No, unless there's covid in
No, unless there's covid in rainwater
Oh geez, that's pretty crappy.
What a waste.
We can't flush away all the
We can't flush away all the hard work for people to sit on bar stools. Let's eliminate this virus for once and for all!
I wish the state would give
I wish the state would give us some intel from the presumed contact tracing that's been happening.
How many cases are coming from (to the extent we can tell) supermarkets? How many from indoor dining? How many from outdoor dining? How many from outdoor social gatherings? How many from indoor social gatherings? And so on.
I also think they need to go back to Phase 2, or at least some new Phase "2.5".
Part of why I think that is because I think Phase 3 is sending mixed messages, causing people to ease off. The state sends to send a message -- stronger than today -- to try to remedy that.
I wonder about the strength of the program
Since I’ve been able to, I’ve eaten indoors at a few places. Most have been fast or fast-ish food, with one sit down place. At exactly one place (Smashburger in Westwood) was I asked for contact info “just in case”. Why aren’t all restaurants with indoor seating required to do this?
Varies by Town/City
The cities and towns are in charge of these activities, not the state. Therefore, things will vary if you move from community to community.
Why are you eating indoors,
Why are you eating indoors, especially at places that don’t seem to give a damn?
It's none of your goddam business. Perhaps when you answer the question I as you every six months- what happened to you that you hate motor vehicles- I'll start answering your questions.
That said, here's a hint. I guess that revolves around that other question I always have for you, "why do you hate people in general so much?"
What nonsense. It's everybody's business because selfish people like you spread the virus to the rest of us. This isn't an "individualistic" kind of thing, it's a communal kind of thing, like it or not.
Also, it's everybody here's business because you chose to post publicly about it in the first place. If you talk about what you did, you make it our business -- that's the whole point of a public forum.
tl;dr: You're a selfish idiot.
Welcome to Universal Hub
To bring you up to speed, Kinopio is a hateful troll whom I hate intensely. If anyone else asked, I’d have given a more polite answer.
That said, the governor said it’s okay for me to eat indoors, providing there is distancing and mask wearing when possible. He has based his Covid actions on science and public health interest, so I feel comfortable doing so. And as any little way to support the restaurant sector can help reduce the Commonwealth’s very high unemployment rate, perhaps some slack should be given. And note, I did question the lack of traceability of the practice.
In short, siding with an asshole doesn’t reflect well on you.
If you look at town data
Provided by the DPH, you’ll see that there are specific town that have high rates, while others are extremely low (<1%). Targeting specific clusters makes more sense than a blanket return to an earlier phase.
Most of the "contact tracers" were laid-off, no public interest
After millions spent by crime prevention and consumer groups telling people not to give out personal info over the phone, Baker wonders why people won't give their personal info over the phone. That's if they choose to answer the unknown incoming number at all. With a miniscule 0.2% death rate, Baker and his ilk can only shout about "positive tests" to keep this going, even though those testing positive may never suffer a symptom at all. The streets of Boston have turned into a deadly blood bath but let's send the Boston Police to count heads at a non-Polito family cookout.
Is there an actual source or is it just totally made up from your alleged brain?
Latest real number in Massachusetts is 7.5%
Latest real number in the US is 3.2%
Plus, death is only one measure of the severity of covid19. People get extremely sick, can't breathe, organ functions are affected, smell and taste are lost. Many of these symptoms don't go away.
Not here to pick a fight but according to the WHO (on 8/4) the infection fatality rate is 0.6%
CDC gives similar estimates
The 7% and 3% don’t factor in anyone who didn’t get tested, for example because they have no symptoms or because they were to not to back in March/April.
That's the number
His/Her 0.2% figure is accurate. Fewer than 10,000 deaths in Massachusetts, divided by population of 6,902,000 residents equals 0.0014.
The number "could" be accurate
Or better put, could be "accurate." Assuming that ever resident of Massachusetts get infected with Covid, and assuming no more die, 0.14% could be accurate. But those are huge assumptions, which lead people to the "when you assume..." level of discourse. Myself, I'm going with a number that divides deaths by cases.
...how does it make any sense to divide deaths by the total population?
Public Service Announcement
The above posting is BULLSHIT. Contact tracers are extremely busy with assistance to people who need to lay low. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5yxGI-uM5E
Notice the lack of citations?
Fish gets hard at the 150,000
Fish gets hard at the 150,000 Americans dead on Trumps watch. He hates America and wants as many Americans dead as possible. That’s why he supports keeping moron Trump in charge.
Covid lies affect public health
Finally, facebook and twitter are exercising some,though not enough, control of false and damaging content relevant to covid19.
I would urge Universal Hub to consider similar measures. This post above and most posts by the rotten fish person are potentially harmful to public health. In my opinion, it is time to delete this person or at the very least delete his harmful posts.
Here's part of the rub, though, O-FISH-L:
A person can be infected with the Covid-19 virus, still be asymptomatic (not sick at all), and still infect and sicken other people. The Covid-19 virus is extremely contagious--and deadly, to boot, even moreso than the regular seasonal flu(s) that hit us every year.
He knows. He doesn't care.
This harmful lie has been pointed out to Fishstench more times than I can count. He knows. He doesn't care.
Agreed with the previous commenter: there is a valid reason to remove posts and comments and ban users who post harmful misinformation. Fish has transgressed many times. It's time for some accountability.
Pinpoint the sources while assuring the public
I think you're right on the mark in trying to find out where the source of these increases are coming from.
In my opinion, I think the increase in cases is a mix of the following:
- Delayed test results, giving the appearance of a spike due to overwhelmed labs (e.g. of the 350 results from one day, the actual results from that day could be 100, while the other 250 are "catch up" results, which could be distorting the daily counts).
- People isolated in their homes over the past few months and yearning for social contact of any kind, and are willing to bend, if not break, rules to do so (except for the militant Ultimate Quarantine Warriors, with their smartphone and BOS-311 app at the ready in case someone's mask is even a micrometer off their chin or someone walks within 5.999995 feet near someone else).
- People who are blissfully ignorant and/or with a huge rebellious/defiant streak, intentionally taking huge risks by having large parties and gatherings*, and disregarding health rules. Their thoughts: "You can't tell me I can't do X!" "What's the worst that can happen to me?" "I need to have fun!" "FU and mind your damn business!" (These are the same people who run to their social media app and whine, 'I got chills, a fever of 101.7 and I can't leave my house for two weeks (sad face)")
I've supported Gov. Baker in his efforts, but his constant droning message about protecting ourselves against the virus could also be the reason cases are going up - people are tuning him out, regardless of whether the cases spike or not. He is well within his rights to be exasperated and frustrated, but when you have nothing new to offer than the same old message, people will shrug off any efforts to comply.
The message has to change, and it has to be fresh, clear, and direct - even if those words are clinical, uncomfortable, and harsh. Only then will the people finally say, "Wait a second - this is serious! I've got to do something!"
What "new message" do you want?
What new message do you want when the facts on the ground haven't changed?
The problem is that many people are willfully ignorant
and being totally irresponsible, by having big gatherings, and refusing to wear masks. It's disgusting how so many people don't give a shit about who they sicken--or even kill.
Also no more bars masquerading as restaurants
ie people need to eat food when they are at restaurants. I think this will help in some places that have simply turned into outdoor barrooms.
So if you eat
a meal you are now immune???? Come on man!
Table turnover rates
Serving food reduces the rate of turnover, reducing the potential exposure.
Having cocktails with friends watching a game on TV reduces turnover
Food is necessary to sustain
Food is necessary to sustain life. We allow restaurants to serve food. I don't think it is reasonable to deny access to beverages while food is consumed. It really makes no difference if you drink a glass of water, soda or an alcoholic beverage while you eat your food.
Watching a sporting event on TV is a social activity that is not necessary to sustain life.
Now, if you want to talk about whether or not indoor dining should be open right now, that is a separate discussion we can have.
That's ridiculous. Eating is
That's ridiculous. Eating is necessary to stay alive, but eating inside a restaurant is just as unnecessary as having a drink or watching TV. They're all forms of entertainment.
What is ridiculous? I said we
What is ridiculous? I said we could have a separate discussion on whether or not we should be allowing indoor dining, but that was clearly not the angle the OP was arguing.
What the state regulates and why (food with drinks) and what you do at your home are two different things.
Unless you are wearing masks, social distancing, and staying 6 feet apart, such small gatherings with people from different households are more dangerous than having a beer at a patio table.
I wish allowing indoor dining
I wish allowing indoor dining and casinos had been reversed too. The state prioritized those over schools opening which is a sad commentary. NYC never allowed indoor dining to reopen. Time out market, a food court in the Fenway, reopened. How in the world is that safe?
I would argue that Time Out is safer than most restaurants, because you go up to the window to get your food and then sit outside and eat it.
I don't think *any* restaurants should be open, so I still won't be going, but I desperately miss the Time Out Market.
Landsdowne tables overload
The entrance to Landsdowne at Brookline Ave has tables on both sides of the street leaving a 12 foot entrance.
Game days are attracting fans who can sit in the park to drink and walk around, many maskless.
Add the influx of BU and Northeastern students from all over coming to the Fenway and we're f******!
Restaurants and casinos were prioritized over schools
Because their owners and workers wanted them to reopen. Public school teachers and their unions don't want the schools to reopen. Restaurant workers and restaurateurs understand that if restaurants stay closed, their livelihoods are in jeopardy. Public school teachers understand that their livelihoods do not depend on the schools reopening; they will be paid by the taxpayers regardless. Though some might lose jobs if tax revenues fall short, opening the schools won't restore those tax revenues.
Moreover, teachers' unions are some of the most prolific contributors to politicians with a (D) after their names, and that's who runs most of this state, the current governor excepted.
Yup, some people are having to make the difficult choice between a paycheck and their health, but that's pretty much been the choice for everyone deemed "essential" since the start of this mess.
The vast majority of
The vast majority of restaurant workers I know absolutely did not want restaurants to reopen and to this day feel unsafe and resentful of their managers, who often implemented no additional safety protocols beyond moving tables a little further apart.
I give your armchair political analysis an A for cynicism, but a D for creativity and an F for demonstrating any effort whatsoever to understand other people's perspectives.
Maybe they should close the casinos and the restaurants, then.
Trillium -- the outdoor venue -- has opened but...
...the Time Out food court is still closed.
...I thought the Globe said that the food court was opening on Wednesday. Did something happen, or was their info wrong?
City Winery on the greenway
City Winery on the greenway is closed because an employee tested positive.
Why is it ok to spread the
Why is it ok to spread the virus to 50 people at a time rather than 100?
I still refuse to gather with people outside my household.
Because that's how many
Because that's how many people can fit on a MBTA bus or subway car which is sure to be cleaner than a typical dinning establishment.
We need one for Covid 19 Purity Virtue.
Buttons signal your virtue! (and your socioeconomic status, etc.)
Badges, Not Buttons
Among the latest guidelines issued by BU:
So they'll make you buy a smartphone, too?
And install their sketchy ass software on it?
Ribbons, not badges
Ribbons, not badges
How about yellow stars for those who disobey?
This would be merely stupid
This would be merely stupid if you were Jewish, but since I'm pretty sure you aren't, it's crass appropriation of another culture's tragic history for you own political aims and I ask you to please stop it.
Anyone who makes this kind of comparison is a monstrous fool. Congrats, you qualify "JohnAKeith"
Yeh, right! Who the hell are you shittin'
Or are you just being snarky?
In either case, you're not the least bit funny.
Good thing no one is forcing you to, then.
Some of us want to see a friend or two after spending months alone.
You've always been able to see them
That's on you, then. You've always been able to see them; you just haven't been able to nudge elbows at a table together.
I know that
I was replying to the person who ‘refuses to gather with people outside their household.’ If they meant ‘nudge elbows at a table,’ it wasn’t clear. I have friends who call people ‘selfish’ for taking a walk with someone outside their household, so it’s hard to know anymore.
There is an exemption for
There is an exemption for protests that are deemed socially acceptable, correct?
Funny how you missed the TESTING FOR DEMONSTRATORS
Mid-July, dear. Special testing events for people who participated in demonstrations. Test centers set up for FREE testing in key places.
This resulted in a massive increase in testing post-demontrations.
My son and his GF, who went to 5 different events, got tested in Lynn.
Guess what: RESULTS SAY THAT THERE WAS NO PROBLEM.
Masks and social distancing work, honey.
BTW: this was published nationally by the sane and honest media. Too bad you had your head so far up Faux and Freuds that you seemed to have missed it.
Yeah, it's called the First
Yeah, it's called the First Amendment. And the exercise of it did not lead to an increase in cases, as Swirly already noted.
It’s funny how civil disobedience requires, you know, disobedience of laws and restrictions. You should try reading up on how protesting works.
You don't have to do civil
You don't have to do civil disobedience to protest. It's also possible to protest while obeying the law.
A protest with a permit...
...is a parade.
Wow, that’s great that your
Wow, that’s great that your son went to 5 protests dear. Plenty of photos and videos of people in Boston and all across the country protesting and not wearing masks and certainly not socially distancing.
But are protests of more than 50 considered a violation, honey?
Thank you, I’ll take your advice and read up on protesting.
Are all expressions of civil disobedience allowed? Let us know which ones are approved - is there in a list in one of your protest books?
Allowed and approved
1.) I’m sterile and have no children
Still struggling with basic English vocabulary, I see. Disobedience is never allowed or approved. Why does this need to be explained to anyone capable of typing a sentence?
3.) You say that you are going to read up? Start with a dictionary and work out why asking what forms of disobedience is allowed/approved is a breathtakingly imbecilic question. If you want read a book MLK’s Why We Can’t Wait is great and you can further read up on what King called the “fierce urgency of now” in fighting Black oppression.
4.) How do you give yourself 9 thumbs up overnight?
5.) The public health question of protests was asked and answered above. See Swirly’s multiple responses in multiple threads. Also, no public health officials thought the protests were great ideas from an epidemiological standpoint.
Most of the protestors in
Most of the protestors in Boston and elsewhere may not have been distanced but most that I saw were masked.
"Plenty of photos"
So show 'em then. These "plenty of photos". In photos I've seen, mask-wearing was nearly universal; in protests I've personally attended, I did not see one person without a mask (and a number of people came with extra to give out).
Your condescending sexist passive-aggressiveness is duly noted.
Your condescending sexist
Did you duly note the context - that there is a high likelihood that they were parroting Swirly's condescending sexist passive-aggressiveness?
Please stricter enforcement
Please stricter enforcement on trains. I do everything to follow the rules but every day on Orange Line there are at least 3 to 5 riders who don't wear masks. And of course it's those riders who decide to scream into the air, or yell into phones, or decide to stand right next to you. Warning: I'm a rider of the Orange Line who is a female in her 50s who is suffering from depression after my husband of 26 years died of a brainhemmorage and also going through the hell of menopause and hot flashes. You don't want me to snap at these people for being inconsiderate of others who, like me, don't have a car and have to take the train because we have to every day.
i’m so sorry you lost your
i’m so sorry you lost your husband. that really sucks. as does depression.
Nice of him to wait until after the weekend
So the rollback takes effect on Tuesday? I wonder how many big parties have suddenly been scheduled for this weekend.
Seriously, why not announce new restrictions effective now?
Perhaps throwing a crumb to
Perhaps throwing a crumb to caterers/restaurant operators who had already ordered food for the weekend based on higher limits?
Is the MBTA exempt? Social 6
Is the MBTA exempt? Social 6 feet distancing isn't possible sometimes on Buses leaving Forest Hills and trains
Social distancing is not required in any space where it's not "reasonably possible" to do it. MBTA does what it can, but it doesn't have the resources it would need to institute the capacity limits that would make social distancing possible, and as an essential system is needs to run anyway.