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Dorchester teen murder victims identified

Carlor

Boston Police report the two people fatally shot on Wildwood Street in Dorchester on Sunday were K’Shaun Webster, 17, of Dorchester and Dante Carlor, 16, of Sutton (in photo).

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Comments

What a terrible thing

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Nothing to do with Roxbury

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Don't write headlines when you're really tired, sigh.

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implicit bias?

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I shouldn't be so biased against sleep.

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Such a tragic loss. It takes a lot of effort, love and human investment to raise a child from infancy through adolescence. I feel for their parents. How do you go on after something like that?

I know people, such as Tina Cherry, have turned their grief into something constructive for themselves and the community, but I cannot imagine ever being able to recover after losing a child.

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In the big movement I hear so much about now? When is the protest?

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... is kind of like complaining that the World Wildlife Fund isn’t doing enough to help cure cancer, or that Doctors Without Borders is kinda AWOL when it comes time to fight illiteracy.

Why would you fault people whose purpose is to expose and fight against police misconduct, for not doing more to fight street crime, which is a completely different problem?

Unless, of course, you had some other agenda of some sort

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No, I don't have an agenda. Just don't like a movement of selective outrage to help push a political position.

Call it "#ExpelBadCops" then. Your comparisons have nothing to do with this topic.

* Edit - If this was about bad cops, I would be with these protestors 100% *

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Is the fact that a movement is focused on a specific issue and not on some other issue really a valid criticism? All work requires focus. Focus is inherently selective.

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Is the fact that a movement is focused on a specific issue and not on some other issue really a valid criticism? All work requires focus. Focus is inherently selective.

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As has been amply demonstrated, the problem is not “bad cops” and cannot be fixed by eliminating “a few bad apples”. The problem is the confluence if a number of institutional and systemic factors that cause otherwise good people to actively participate in, or at least stand idly by and passively fail to resist, brutal misconduct. Any medium sized library will have a shelf or two of books written on this topic in the aftermath of the Nazi era in Germany.

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People are protesting different things. Nearly everyone would agree there's deeply seeded racism in American society, much of it beginning at birth.

Some people think the focusing specifically on reforming police departments to remove the racist, thuggish cops is something that can be done relatively quickly and will accomplish the immediate problem of Black citizens being harassed and killed by the police.

Others think that's a lost cause and all the focus should be on structural changes in most aspects of society. While this will take longer and is harder, it will result in Blacks (and all minorities) having the opportunities that whites enjoy and thus, fewer conditions that bring rise to biased cops and Blacks being killed in the first place.

Personally, I do not think police reform should wait. Start with the easiest things to change: Fire the bad cops.

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You aren't wrong, but I think you left out a couple of steps and a couple of factors. Note that "systemic racism" isn't even on my list below, because we'd still have a police problem even if there were no such thing as race, and we'd still have a societal systemic racism problem even if there were no such thing as police departments.

  1. Bad cops exist. There are by various counts just under 1M sworn law enforcement offices in the United States. In any group of a million people, some of them are going to be angels, some of them are going to be devils, and most are going to be regular folks like you and me. Getting bad individuals off the force is necessary, but not sufficient
  2. Police are not sufficiently self-policing There is a prevailing police culture that loyalty to your fellow officer right or wrong, the whole thin blue line schtick, is more important than honoring your badge and your oath of service. The prevailing culture discourages cops fro rooting out and expelling the bad ones in their midst. Changing this aspect of police culture is necessary; without it you'll never achieve the other objectives.
  3. Police have become militarized Our foreign policy is the gift that keeps on giving. Large numbers of people in their late 20s, people whose entire adult professional training and employment to date has been serving overseas in an army of occupation in enemy territory, have been hired into police departments under veterans hiring preference. Unsurprisingly, a bunker "us against the savages" mentality exists. When under stress, people fall back on their training and experience to guide them. It's not a bit surprising that some police departments, absent very strong leadership, start acting like armies of occupation. This aspect needs to be addressed. I have no idea how.
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"I agree with expelling bad cops, but I simply cannot support the idea that Black lives matter." -- Willisan

Generally people like you keep those thoughts to themselves.

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First, stop insulting people in communities hit by violence by assuming they can deal with only one issue at a time.

Second, stop insulting people just because either you or the media, or perhaps both, only pay attention to one issue at a time.

Because there are two issues here: Official violence against Black people, and violence in certain parts of the city.

The first issue you know about.

The second issue in fact does have groups and people working on. Look up the Louis D. Brown Peace Institute, sponsor of the annual Mother's Day Walk for Peace (what, you've never heard of that? It's only been going on for like 25 years).

Or look up Monica Cannon-Grant and Violence in Boston.

And as you read about her and her work, maybe consider how the two issues are, in fact, intertwined to some extent, that efforts to "defund" police are really efforts to move money away from law enforcement and into programs such as trauma counseling and social work that can begin to break the cycle of violence that leads from one shooting to another.

Or you could just keep making simplistic "just asking" comments on complex issues.

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You mean the woman who has displayed herself to be an extreme racist in recent days?

Or her organization through which she has been allegedly misappropriating donated funds since it's inception?

THAT Monica Cannon-Grant?

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Monica-Cannon Grant is not someone to cite here. She's been busy railing against interracial marriage and black women hopping on white penises.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/07/21/black-republican-horrified-and-a...

https://turtleboysports.com/ayanna-pressleys-grifting-campaign-manager-a...

Eugene Rivers would be a better person to cite. Or Bobby Joe Leaster.

The current response to address the first issue is resulting in a spike in the second issue.

The police problem is complex. Part of the problem does stem from bad cops and the mechanisms (union protection) in place to protect those bad cops (along with no-knock warrants, civil forfeiture, police issuing fines to generate revenue, etc.). Unions do a disservice to their police membership as a whole by protecting the shitty cops. Studies have shown that the vast majority of police officers have no complaints filed against them. Instead, it's a small number of police officers that have numerous complaints filed against them. (See Omar Wasow's work, cited here: https://www.theroot.com/how-to-go-from-blacklivesmatter-to-blackpolicyma...). Those are the cops that harm the relationship between the community and the police. They are also the cops that should be removed quickly, perhaps through the decertification process being contemplated on Beacon Hill.

The Boston response to the murder of George Floyd is out of scale with the problem on a local level. It's a knee-jerk response that's not thought through. Moving money away from the BPD overtime budget is a red herring. A lot of OT is ordered for things like the parades, Caribbean Festival, St. Patrick's Day, etc. If it's not ordered, then we lose police resources for things like Mass/Cass 2.0 (http://thebostonsun.com/2020/07/08/police-reduction-outlined-in-plan-rai...). Or court appearances. Of course, an officer getting paid a minimum of 5 hours for a 5-min court appearance is lunacy, but that's collectively bargained. Maybe allow for travel time (e.g., if an officer has to to go from Hyde Park to Suffolk Superior Ct for a court appearance after his overnight shift, then allow for travel time.). Either way, the bigger focus should be on banning chokeholds, de-escalation techniques, and decertification instead of on "defunding."

BPD are not Minneapolis police. According to Eugene Rivers, the BPD had it's no-knock comeuppance in 1994. (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/14/opinion/boston-police-are-not-min...) Since then, a lot of progress has been made through work of the members of the community and BPD.

Undoubtedly, BPD are not perfect. But, they are more professional than most urban police forces and have made tremendous strides over the years. The current climate is going to result in worse policing and less safety. Cops will retire in droves. Who is going to fill those jobs? BPD already has a recruitment problem. Couple that with the falling number of people taking the civil service exam, the anti-police rhetoric from the DA and other pols, the possible loss of QI (which will force cops to purchase insurance), and the residency requirement in a city that's way too expensive, and who is going to want to do that job?

Maybe less policing will prevent future George Floyds, Breonna Taylors or, hell, Daniel Shravers from being murdered. But what about all the non-police shootings and murders happening in Boston? Who's going to stop those if the police aren't?

I know nuance and thoughtfulness are dead in the age of twitter, but, as Adam said, the issues are complex. I wish the shootings and violence were covered more than just on UHub.

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As she became known for her crusade to get justice for those murdered in Boston, particularly in the minority community. Not murdered by cops. Murdered by anyone. When communities can trust the police to bring justice, they will be less likely to take matters into their own hands. A lot of the violence is cyclical. She is trying, in her own way, to end that cycle.

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Cite turtleboysports? Really?

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Only problem is their website watermark obscures the grease stains on Monica's shirt

https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhKz56kdiegpk9ytPp

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Are those ok, or no? Should I only go to one site to be told what the news is? Or am I allowed to read multiple sites to try to distill the truth?

Turtleboy is the only place where I could find what she actually said. And the video. She's a prominent local activist and organizer. I wanted to see for myself what she said.

But, hey, yeah, focus on the website that posted it and not the content of what she said.

A few excerpts:

“This heffer running against Ayanna Pressley. This one here with the white husband. At some point we gonna have to have a conversation with black folks who get in a conversation with white folks and then forget that they black.”

“If white vagina and white penises jeopardize your melanin then we need you to sit in the back of the classroom and this ain’t your part of the show and you don’t get to talk right now.”

“Regardless of how many white penises you ride, and I ain’t mad at you sis because if you riding that mother f***er for a credit score get you that house boo. Get you that 40 acres and a mule. Just don’t forget you a n***er.”

In regards to black men who inter-marry with black women:

“He getting pink uncooked vagina. I get it, I get it. But what I need you to do though is keep your mouth shut on black shit if you ain’t ready to be black”

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She's going off on Rayla Campbell - there's as much chance of her winning Pressley's seat as there is of Kinopio buying a subscription to Car And Driver.

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The Globe is OK. Herald is generally factually OK, too. The Sun (UK) is pretty spotty, but, you linked The Boston Sun, which I have no idea about. All of that said, yeah, Turtleboy Sports is trash, utter garbage.

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Conditions in certain areas where certain people have been forced to live because of ... racism ... are like they are because of ... racism ... and fighting ... racism ... will contribute to improvements in those areas.

There is your answer.

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and i applaud Mr. Leponge for having the patience to write it for what must be the 103847382957483957th time on the internet.

that said, i just wanted to add:

FUCK YOU, read a fucking book

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All these kids!
Completely horrifying.

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Probably near the top of my list of ‘Most Disturbing Things I Have Seen During the Course of my Fifteen Year Plus Career’ is being one of the first on scene at a call for a teenage homicide victim.

It is just so unnatural, not that any of the gun violence we see is really “normal”. It sticks with you. I was at one many years ago and I still think about it pretty regularly, so I can’t even imagine the trauma of his family.

- a Boston Cop

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If these two teens were murder suspects, not victims, the media and ACLU would be telling us that they are merely children, that the human mind isn't fully developed until well into the 20s and they should be treated as the young tots they are. When Black teens are murdered in twos by another Black suspect, however, the news is placed 7th on the story list and "well below the fold" in the Globe. When covered at all, Boston murders are placed after the daily fear mongering about a disease harmless to most under 60, the attacks du jour on President Trump, panic over the on-schedule July heatwave and acceptance of Marty's comically insulting claim that the violence is due to his inability to hold peace marches during social distancing. A casual observer could be forgiven for wondering why these stories (blockbusters if they occurred a few miles away in wealthy white suburbs) are largely ignored in Boston.

After the state sponsored looting of Boston on May 31 (Baker and Walsh encouraged mass protests amid Covid and refused the request of Commissioner Gross for additional police) Boston retail stores and offices aren't coming back. The city is in freefall and few are acknowledging it. What's Walsh's plan as the city disintegrates into a daytime Ghost town and nighttime Killing Fields?

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First, yes, of course, these deaths are horrifying, as are all the other deaths this year.

That having been said, please stay out of Boston, which is obviously too scary for you. Those of us who actually live here will continue to do just that.

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Those of us who actually live here will continue to do just that.

Really? Continue to live? Many young Blacks alive today in Boston aren't sure they will live to see tomorrow. Inserting your own white outlook on theirs is a form of soft bigotry itself.

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...is a form of soft bigotry itself.

oh shut the fuck up with that smarmy bullshit

you're fine projecting your white suburban outlook onto "young blacks in Boston"

as an actual young black in boston: please mind your fuckin business

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Remember when Fish made racist comments and conjecture on a story about the murder of a young Latin School alum?

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No, but sounds plausible. I'll give Fish this: the all-caps screen name make his posts easy to spot and skip past.

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Two parents just lost their kids an people want to say where is BLM? I'm sick to my stomach just thinking how people hide behind their computers and are not saying hey let me try and help curve the violence happening in the city we love and call home. If all you have to say is when is the March, march yourself off this site.

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