MassLive.com reports that Joe Biden is getting the most votes for president in the Massachusetts Democratic primary, followed by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
The same order is holding in Boston, according to unofficial city numbers, which, however, show a much narrower gap between Biden and Sanders.
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Comments
Once Again You Can Blame White Suburbanites
By BlackKat
Tue, 03/03/2020 - 11:38pm
If you look at the district map the pattern is pretty clear. White suburbanites like dumb, quasi-Republicans with groping issues... not surprising I suppose considering they liked Bill Clinton too.
I know a lot of people will look at this election and say us socialists should form a new, independent party. But I still like the idea that the entire party must swing hard left, and kick out the entire, centrist establishment that is holding it back. Why should I move? Make them.
Blame Warren.
By anon
Tue, 03/03/2020 - 11:54pm
She should have dropped out and endorsed Bernie.
yep, that's us
By hollydollydoo
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 12:13am
The United States will never be a socialist country. NOTHING is free; somebody somewhere (usually the middle-class working stiffs) pay for all of this 'free' stuff.
Have you ever spoken with anyone who has lived under a socialist regime - from Cuba, the Baltics, Russia? They will tell you that it is a crappy way of life. If you want that system so badly, why don't you move to Cuba? Or even better, Venezuela - the quality of life is excellent down there!!!!
Buenas noches, mi amigo!
I think you are confused.
By BlackKat
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 12:52am
Nothing is free now. Right now poor people pay for everything and the rich prosper.
Socialism is merely the attempt to ensure that nobody does without basic necessities of life, and that pay for labor is distributed more fairly. The budget need not increase one iota if you add back various wealth taxes. Typically those do not affect the middle class as they are not wealthy.
Also so tired of stupid right wingers going "Why don't you move to..."
Why don't you move to North Korea since you like totalitarian regimes that fuck the poor so much?
How much is rich?
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 1:13am
I mean Elizabeth lives in a multi-million dollar home and makes $300K/yr for teaching a single class. (No wonder she wants us all to foot the bill, past, present, and future)
Is that rich?
Bernie is also a multi-millionaire with three homes.
Is that rich?
More of do as I say, and not as I do?
This
By BostonDog
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 7:39am
Trump is giving farmers billions in bail out money to compensate them for this idiotic trade policies. (But no help for those in other jobs who also suffer.) We all know about the Wall Street bail outs about a decade ago. Big corporations now expect to get huge tax breaks just for opening up an office somewhere.
Why is it called "Socialism" when it's providing additional support for less well off individuals but "stimulus" when it involves giving money to corporations?
Why was it ever branded "socialism" in the first place?
By boo_urns
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 9:57am
Bernie's essentially a New Deal era type Democrat. Why it was ever branded with one of America's favorite dirty words seems to have been at least one serious misstep. It just plays directly into the right wing bad faith playbook.
His Choice
By Terrapin
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 10:43am
Nice Democratic party talking points, but this New Deal Democrat line is just a bunch of BS. Bernie has been honest throughout his career where he stands, and that is with Socialism first and Democracy second. He has not changed since the Bernie of the 1980's and there are hundreds of written and televised remarks to prove where he stands. This is not even a debate.
Nah, it's a debate.
By boo_urns
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 11:02am
This is the exact right wing playbook I'm talking about. The issue here is really semantics. The underlying policy falls rather neatly in-line with New Deal era Democratic Party economic policies.
Just because you want to play boogeyman with a word you don't like doesn't make it true.
Eugene Debs
By Terrapin
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 1:06pm
Bernie identifies Eugene Debs as his closest philosophical mentor rather than FDR. He has kept a portrait of him on the wall of his office since he was mayor of Burlington, not a portrait of FDR.
Listen to Bernie himself, not the talking points of the party trying to make him less unappealing to middle class suburbanites. He keeps the details of how he would implement his goals vague so that people like you can promulgate this moderating sophistry. The thing I respect the most in Bernie is his admission of who he is and what he believes. You are the one denying him his message.
I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm denying him his message
By boo_urns
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 2:57pm
But I also said "New Deal era" not specifically FDR. That coalition included socialists and democrats alike.
Why do we pretend America has capitalism?
By cinnamngrl
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 2:06pm
Corporations get lots of tax money. And you can't get a major company to grow or build unless you give them money. Communism is a disaster because the people don't get to elect their leaders. A bunch of crooks with Panamanian bank accounts can't be compared to Democratic Socialism.
Except, when you look at
By Patrick C
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 7:11am
Except, when you look at "socialist" states like.. oh I don't know ALL OF EUROPE, they all have a higher quality of life and are higher on the happiness index than the US. I don't like Bernie. He has no plan. And if you look at his language he says "we should have..." Not "I'll make it happen". Bidens only message is that he was Obama's VP. Why is Elizabeth Warren not doing better? He plans aren't as left as Sanders and she's actually laid out plans not only of what she wants to get done, but HOW she'll use her various presidential powers to get it done. HOW IS SHE NOT WINNING?
My guesses
By Jethro
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 1:58pm
1) Bloomberg sucked a lot of air out of the room with his Super Tuesday blitz, so it was really hard for anyone else to get their name and plan out there. I don't watch a lot of TV outside of the football season, but I don't remember seeing an ad for anyone other than Bloomberg or Steyer. So in the end, people voted for who they had heard of (the former VP or the guy who maybe should have won last time or the rich A-hole filling the airwaves)
2) In the case of Bernie fans, some of Warren's plans smell a teeny bit like compromise (I disagree that they were actual compromises, but that's a debate for a different time), and I don't blame many people on the left for being tired of starting with the compromise position. Getting the GOP to meet you in the middle is probably never going to happen, but it's more likely that you end up with a Warren-like plan if you start off with "Free healthcare for everyone yesterday".
3) For many Biden supporters, 2016 got a lot of people spooked, and they care about one thing: defeating Trump. Sure matchup polling has suggested that any of the D candidates would win handily (though maybe 2016 also taught us that a 9/10 victory according to polls is not absolutely guaranteed either), so they want the comfortable return to normalcy candidate that they know (think) won't scare off "swing voters". And after 2016, do we really think Americans are ready to vote for a woman?
Which leads into
4) Misogyny.
HOW IS SHE NOT WINNING?
By Rob
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 5:51pm
Shades of Jon Lovitz... I mean - Mike Dukakis.
Except, when you look at
By Rob
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 5:57pm
You mean like those ones with a national health system, like Ireland, where care is sometimes inaccessible, where they've been in a crisis of available beds (horror stories of people parked for hours/days on gurneys in hallways), and my parents always heard from their relatives over there about "yeah, national system, but I carry private insurance anyway so I can get a radiology scan appt in less than 6 months?"...?
Do you know anyone who is
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 9:54am
Do you know anyone who is deeply in debt because of medical bills? If so, are they American? Or do they live in one of the dozens of other first-world countries with free health care?
How about someone with massive student loans?
Or a new parent who gets zero paid leave?
Of course all of these issues don't exist for you if you're a multi-millionaire.
We need a president who will change the system.
Restaurant workers...
By Anon
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 7:10am
Are the only people I can think of who do not get paid leave. Good luck getting a politician to change that. CVS clerks have a paid short term disability program and long term. What are your friends or you doing for a career that is not allowing sick time/paid leave?
You understand that there is
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 12:44pm
You understand that there is a difference between authoritarian socialism and democratic socialism, right? And that of course nothing is free but we as a people will pay more taxes (especially the rich, much more, which is the point) so everyone can have health care, food and housing, right??
More taxes
By perruptor
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 7:54am
More taxes, but less insurance premiums, copays, and deductibles. It's an ongoing argument about whether the taxes will be less than the insurance money. Guess which side of that the insurance companies and their wholly-owned politicians are on.
That the health care in Ireland, or Latveria, or wherever, is less than great (based on my anecdote!!) is not an indication that we can't do it better than them. We can, and we should. The system we have now is killing people.
Latveria?
By Rob
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 9:55am
Latveria?
Doctor Doom wouldn't appreciate the criticism.
Perhaps you were thinking of a real country, like Latvia?
The secret wars
By Anon
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 10:42am
The secret wars were fought over health care in Latveria.
Perhaps not
By perruptor
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 6:59pm
The Doctor is the only good character in that Flabtastic Four series. Latveria's been on my bucket list forever.
Minority here. Brown and
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 5:10am
Minority here. Brown and proud. My whole family and I voted for Biden.
You white people should stop telling us what to do and who to vote for.
Rep. James Clyburn (not white)
By Oscar Worthy
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 3:18pm
told Black folk in South Carolina to vote for Joe Biden. And according to exit polls, around 60% of those voters stated that Clyburn telling them 'what to do and who to vote for' had a major influence on their decision to pull the lever for Biden.
So maybe you can amend your comment to "you white >and black< people should stop telling us" who to vote for . .
Nah. Black people haven’t
By anon
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 9:37am
Nah. Black people haven’t historically tried to hold me back.
You white people should stop telling us what to do and who to vote for.
Fight The Power !
By Oscar Worthy
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 4:12pm
. . by falling in line behind a 78 year old white guy who fought against school desegregation, raising the minimum wage, and any regulation of your credit card company . .
Is the “power” you want me to
By anon
Sat, 03/07/2020 - 9:04am
Is the “power” you want me to fight by voting for who you are telling me to vote for “white power“ that you and your ancestors have wielded mercilessly over me and my ancestors?
White people should stop telling us what to do and who to vote for.
Warren got what she deserved
By Stevil
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 6:02am
She runs a nasty campaign and every third word out of her mouth is "fight". Most Americans want someone who will work not fight.
Between her and Bernie, Bernie got the votes because, however misguided, he actually believed what he says while Warren will say whatever she thinks will get her elected.
Give her credit for knocking out Bloomberg though. Her opening salvo threw him for a loop and he never recovered. The sad part is, it got her nothing but that and Bernie's performance on 60 minutes gives us Biden as the nominee. Nice man, but God help us. Half the time he doesn't know where he is, the other half he doesn't know who he's talking to and the other half (in his words) "what was that third half?"
wow
By hux
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 1:19pm
"She runs a nasty campaign and every third word out of her mouth is "fight""
So just like the president then? And just like Bernie? And like all of the other candidates?
Honestly this just sounds like a re-hashing of the BS arguments made against Hillary that white men made who really just did like a louder woman. Like this giant steaming pile "he actually believed what he says while Warren will say whatever she thinks will get her elected."
Yep - just like the president and Bernie
By Stevil
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 4:13pm
Which is one reason among many why I would never vote for Trump and would hold my nose and use latex gloves to vote for Bernie - maybe.
Nothing to do with being female. Was a big fan of Klobuchar and hoping she is a top contender for VP.
As for Warren, my favorite description is "she has a tenuous relationship with the truth". At best she embellishes, at worst, she's a total fraud. An opinion I've had for almost 10 years now.
Thank you BlackKat for your
By Republican
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 6:27am
Thank you BlackKat for your prejudice against white people and suburbanites. If sounds like you are a pleasant and tolerant person. A gentleman as well as scholar for sure. I’m sure you are not racist.
Pluralism is a farce
By BlackKat
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 7:20am
If you can find me a republican or moderate who is not racist, greedy, or a religious nut - I will change my mind. But until then I stand that anyone right of the extreme left needs to move left or be forcibly re-educated.
Also suburbs are bad things.
[img]https://i.redd.it/350g2esbe7131.png[/img]
Forcibly re-educated?
By Stevil
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:00am
What are you, Fidel Castro? Yes - Bernie is for you. Here are some options:
Cuba
Venezuela
North Korea
China (the Muslim part)
BTW - I'm a dyed in the wool moderate (by middle American standards - not yours) - and I don't think anyone that knows me would refer to me as a racist, greedy or religious nut. In fact, I'd say that applies to most of my friends - for the most part none of them are racists, greedy or particular religious - but nobody's perfect.
so time to change your mind.
Why Do People List Non-Socialist Countries As Socialist?
By BlackKat
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:18am
I've seen your posts about taxes and schools.
None of the countries you or another poster listed are democratic socialist political systems, nor do they anything sufficient to promote economic equity among the people. They are all oligarchies where the power is concentrated for the benefit of a select few.
For examples of what the US should move closer to, one needs to look mostly to Scandinavia.
so?
By Stevil
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:22am
What do my posts about schools and taxes have to do with this?
Plus - YOU wanted re-education. That's not Scandinavia - that's authoritarian regimes.
And moderates specifically DON'T want us to be Scandinavia. That's your idea. It's fine. If you like economic pablum. Doesn't mean we can't do a better job with the environment, gun control, universal health care and lowering the cost of education - but let's not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs while we are at it.
you heard the man blackkat
By berkleealum
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:38am
do not - i repeat - do NOT improve society even one bit.
Here I am !
By Gary C
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:04am
I'm a moderate who leans liberal. I'm not a racist, I'm not greedy and I can't stand religion. Get off your extreme horse and accept that there are good people across the spectrum.
Indeed
By Bob Leponge
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 9:27am
ThErE aRe fInE pEoPlE oN bOtH sIdEs.
Thank you for being a perfect example...
By Lecil
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 10:59am
...of why Bernie's supporters turn off so many potential voters.
The last thing this country needs is another Cult of Personality with foaming-at-the-mouth adherents who are completely detached from reality, think facts are inconvenient, and anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% (or heck, deigns to even ask a question) should be burned at the stake.
Brockton, Northhampton, Fall River, Brookline and Cambridge....
By Pete Nice
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:17am
all voted for Warren/Biden (so did Boston if you want to count the narrow margin there).
If you look at the "district" basically the entire state voted for Biden, not just "white suburbanites".
And you should move because you "socialists" are the ones who will get Trump elected again if Bernie wins. That's my prediction anyway. ("moving" as a metaphor I assume)
So the Democats didn't support a non-Democrat
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:25am
Perhaps all the supporters of the non-Democrat should abandon the Democratic Party.
And as others noted, perhaps you could "blame" other racial groups that seem to be supporting Joe Biden more strongly, but that won't help your narrative, so I don't see that happening.
There is no party registration in Vermont.
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:40am
https://sos.vermont.gov/elections/voters/voter-faq...
That's nice
By Waquiot
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 4:20pm
Except that it's wrong.
Unless you can explain the political journey of Jim Jeffords, I'd say that in fact people in the Green Mountain State do in fact define themselves as Democrats, Republicans, or whatever else.
Outside Perspective
By mrotown
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 9:44am
I'm originally from Boston. Politically I'm pretty far left. However, I've lived in the swing state midwest for the past 2 years. You're totally out of touch with the rest of the country if you think Sanders can beat Trump in the electoral college.
Oh puhleease,
By MomT
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 9:47am
Oh puhleease,
Suburbanites waited to see what was going to happen with Biden before making a decision, they wanted to go with a winner and have their votes "count". I voted for Warren even though I knew that Biden would take MA. And please shut up about lumping Warren voters in with Bernie voters. Everyone I know who voted for Warren definitely don't want Sanders as our candidate, they voted for her as a demonstration of her capability and confidence even though they knew she couldn't win.
It is very, very, very interesting (and entertaining) to see how badly Sanders got spanked in MA, though.
Have a great day and please remember to wash your hands and not touch your face!!
You're Blind
By hux
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 1:09pm
This election isn't about picking our favorite progressive, it's about picking someone with a realistic chance to court enough centrist voters to not have Donald Trump be president for another 4 years. Those same people you deride as not liberal enough and the same people you need to win an election.
Just look at the results in the the south and midwest. Biden won Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, and even more typically progressive areas like Massachusetts and Minnesota.
In a general election you need to have a plausible chance throughout the country, and after Trump's attack machine goes into full Bernie-Is-A-Communist there are going to be huge swaths of the country that just will not vote for him.
Warren isn’t going to drop?
By Bigbadleroybrown
Tue, 03/03/2020 - 11:53pm
Warren isn’t going to drop? All she’s doing at this point is helping Biden. She drops and Bernie gets all her supporters.
But...
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 12:43am
She's standing up for women everywhere! What would it look like if a progressive party had all of its candidates from marginalized groups drop out in deference to white men?
Wishful thinking.
By Lee
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 4:28am
Warren’s supporters would be split.
We’ll never know though. She’s not going to drop out yet.
I think her wishful strategy
By Sock_Puppet
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 6:09am
Is to go to a brokered convention and have Biden and Bernie compromise on her. Nagahapen.
This
By hux
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 1:10pm
The realists will vote Biden.
The idealists will vote Bernie.
Bernie doesn't get all her supporters
By anon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 6:33am
I think her supporters are pretty split on Biden/Bernie.
Her supporters liked her policies and her interest in changing (not breaking!) the system.
I think both campaigns should offer her the VP slot, or whatever she wants, for full-throated support. Whoever gets it wins the nomination IMO.
After the way the bros have been bullying her and them?
By jmeltzer
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 7:28am
Like hell.
Give people some credit
By SuperChingon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 10:02am
Warren supporters are generally intelligent and/or educated folks. You think they would not vote for the other progressive candidate because of some of that candidates supporters?
When it comes to the issues, Sanders is much closer to Warren than Biden, so it's a logical shift. Choosing Biden when/if she drops over Sanders means one never really cared about the issues - especially if it's due to spite over his supporters - and was really just voting for a person they liked best.
Precisely
By SomerVillain
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 4:08pm
Exactly this. Some time Sunday evening, three important phone calls were made:
Hey Buttigieg, drop out.
Klobuchar, step aside.
Warren? You're fine. Stay right there.
Bern has been neutralized by the party (and rightly so; he's not even a member. Even former Republican Bloomberg went and got his [D]) but unlike in 2016 it was done subtly. Yeah, we're gonna need to suffer through a few months of insufferable Bernie bros acting like they're not going to fall in line behind Biden, but in the end they'll do exactly that. This is how the sausage is made, and we're serving extra sweet sausage in November.
This one won't
By Will LaTulippe
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 10:18am
Bernie was my mayor. The Democratic Party will nominate him, or they will not receive my vote. Keep sucking, America. I've survived 37 1/2 months of the Cheeto, and I'm wealthier now than I was in 2016.
I did my job and voted yesterday for a guy who wants to give the middle and the bottom a fairer shake, because I don't have that much wealth. Maybe that screws the value of my stocks, but if this country can do better at getting good medicine and education to people, there's value there.
Or we can just keep fluffing corporations. I win if we do that too.
Bullshit
By SamWack
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 7:39am
I voted for Warren, and now I hope she throws her support to Biden. Warren, despite what right-wingers and other lazy people say, is not a socialist; she favors a regulated, well-managed capitalism with strong supports for the rights of workers. Bernie is an incompetent, ignorant, self-aggrandizing fool, who would happily burn the world to feed his own sanctimony. I despise him almost 10% as much as I do Trump, and that’s a lot.
Don't dare dream for better things....
By Marco
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:09am
...because how will you pay for them?
Dreams
By SamWack
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 7:36am
Dreaming you can fly is good. Claiming you can fly is not.
And...
By Stevil
Thu, 03/05/2020 - 8:45am
Then trying to fly ends in disaster.
Warren support not equal to Bernie support
By JJ
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 8:45am
If you look at the polling before we knew the SC results, Warren and Sanders were neck and neck with Biden behind. What we saw yesterday was Biden way up and Warren falling. Many Warren voters already made the calculus that she was out. It looks like more went to Biden than Sanders (anecdotally, I know of several people who did exactly this, in some cases even though their kids were begging them to vote for Sanders).
Anecdotal evidence
By SuperChingon
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 10:05am
doesn't mean anything. Just a friendly FYI
of course not
By JJ
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 11:24am
But what of the data I cited?
We are a socialist country
By Luke Warmer
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 6:05am
and there is no going back from that except for the undoing of our entire civilization. You can have what we have now, socialism for the rich, or, you can have socialism for the people.
Warren is a crackpot. Biden should be handled by Menino aides.
By O-FISH-L
Wed, 03/04/2020 - 9:19am
Character is what you do when nobody is looking. Almost all voters have filled out forms where the question of race is asked. Most would never dream of checking the wrong box for personal gain. Warren did just that and committed the ethnic fraud that allowed her to advance far beyond her abilities. The voters finally brought her to heel and essentially told her, "no more cheating, Liz." The only surprise will be if she is reelected to the Senate in 2024.
The DNC/media and Biden's other handlers would be smart to recruit some of Tom Menino's surviving top-echelon aides. After a troubling start, Menino's gaffes were reinvented as "folksy" and "cute" and not a cause for concern. Although Biden may be having more serious cognitive issues than Menino, the six and seven figure handlers can certainly spin the folksy Grandpa Joe shtick while keeping him hidden until the convention and then until November. Biden's gaffes don't have to be an "Alcatraz" around his neck, as Menino proved. Bernie's people rioting when it's stolen from him again will be epic. Can't wait!
cultural appropriation is not fraud
By cinnamngrl
Fri, 03/06/2020 - 12:36pm
She didn't receive any personal gain. Why is it impossible to believe that a person that sells millions of books is talented? Why is it impossible to believe that prestigious law schools hired her for her expertise? Don't you find something pathetically insecure in believing that she has advanced far beyond abilities? 64 delegates won't win the nomination but for a first time presidential candidate it is an accomplishment. She beat Scott Brown because she was more accomplished and talented. How many women that worked their way through law school as catalog models have been elected to the senate?
Fraud
By Doug1001
Sat, 03/07/2020 - 5:50am
I am pretty sure Harvard touted her as a “woman of color” on their website... then Lizzie dropped the whole Native American/woman of color schtick when she was elected senator.
Probably just an “anecdote” as everyone’s hero Deval would say.
Bonehead
By perruptor
Sat, 03/07/2020 - 7:28am
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about.
Great reply...
By Doug1001
Sat, 03/07/2020 - 9:40am
You’re gifted.
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