CommonWealth Magazine talks to state Rep. Russell Holmes, whose district includes part of Franklin Park.
"We deserve quality of life like everyone else," he said. "What Brookline gets and what West Roxbury gets - we deserve the same."
Come on Man.
He's a state rep, not a city councilor.
And he is comparing Brookline with Franklin Park.
Why should people living on Michigan Avenue be subject to constant noise all night long while people living on Lee Street in Brookline literally hear crickets.
I'm not going to lie. This is going to be a messy issue. Reading the article, Holmes brings up the Carnival time party down by Harambee Park last August. What was the best move the City could have done? Break up the party and be accused or racism, or leave the party be and be accused of ignoring the pleas of a community of color?
This will be a messy issue. I read an opinion piece in the Globe where they found the folks and its just a group of folks just wanting to have a good time. Its a culture thing. Its the same reason as a white guy I don't raise a stink too much about parties before midnight. Music isnt my taste but its cultural difference & people just want to have a good time. Who doesn't want someone to have a good time? (after midnight tho.. come on folks!)
And this article stated, unknowns to most of us on here, that they said:
There is no nightclub in the city where they can do that. “If we only had a big, open space, like a huge parking lot with no housing nearby, we’d go there,” one of them told me. But no one is asking them what they want. It’s no wonder none of them have voted in their local elections. “All we want is a space we can call our own and do our thing,” they said.
Makes total sense. Make it happen and listen to them. Its a cultural thing. Let them have their say.
But no one is asking them what they want. It’s no wonder none of them have voted in their local elections.
First you get 90% of your community to turn out and vote. Then the politicians of every level will be camped on your doorstep asking you what you want.
I get people wanting to cut loose during the day, as mentioned in the article. Parking on Jewish War Veterans Drive (I bet most of you didn't know what the road was called) during the day and listening to your music so others can here is, or doing the same at Revere Beach or whatever, is not the worst thing in the world. Calling the cops on something like that is overkill. That said, late night parties, be them on roof decks in Southie or at a shopping center parking lot in Dorchester, is bad.
As for the bikers, I get that they want to show off their vehicles, but I've also seen them block traffic so their crew can get through a red light in Hyde Park, a few blocks from the police station. That's mob rule right there.
Brookline has its atmosphere and culture and Franklin park has its atmosphere and culture.
City life is different than Brookline, now if he said why cant we have schools like Brookline, I'd be on board with that.
Those abutting Franklin Park do not want the noise they are being subjected to. Why should they have to deal with that while those in Brookline do not?
People in WR pay 2x as much for their homes. People in Brookline pay 3x as much. Thats why. Next.
And actually, there are a lot of outlets for the more highly paid white 20 somethings in the Boston area. There is next to nothing interesting or recreational for 18-30-year-old black/latinos in Boston.
is very obvious
I usually roll my eyes at "these SJWs have gone too far" arguments, but this one... yikes.
Nobody has a right to blast loud music in the middle of the night in residential areas and disturb everyone's sleep, even if they are Black or Brown, and even if they say it's part of their culture. People who are seriously claiming otherwise need to stop and think about what they are saying, because it is insane.
It's too bad Meija got that one extra vote because she seems like a real entitled dingdong on a lot of issues.
The Franklin Park and American Legion Highway areas where they congregate is in somewhat of a valley and also somewhat of a bowl shape and the sound radiates outward and upward. As a result of that there are many hearing this noise pollution not only in the immediate area but as much as 1-2 miles away.
These are scofflaws doing it on purpose and everyone knows that including the police. There are however, multiple problems. First the police do not have enough people to corral these people and their bikes. If they were able to do that can they actually stop them from trying to find a way out or run away? What is violence breaks out as people resist arrest?
Are the police going to be labeled racist for enforcing the law? Let's read that again... are the police going to be labeled racist for enforcing the law. And is the DA going to slap these kids and young adults on the wrist rather than making a point so they don't do it again?
So this is not just a quality of life issue here. This is also a political issue steeped in current events, but more importantly a society that is breaking down and going out of its way to break laws and pushing back on its enforcement agencies.
Then when police act it ends badly. This is a no-win situation for everyone.
It's good that Russ Holmes is speaking out, but this problem has existed in these areas for at least 3 years now and social media and neighborhood connect groups have been complaining and commiserating with each other for just as long. Complaints have been going to police just as long as well.
These young people know they are breaking the law. They are pushing against the law and taunting police. At some point action will have to be taken and all suffer the consequences.
Loud music, motorcycles and fireworks are just things that teenager cannot resist. It is racist to create a false dichotomy with the police. Teenagers of all communities all over the world do this. When current Boston Police Officers were teenagers they did this.
It is unsafe and needs to be controlled, I support stopping it. The taxpayers need to pay for the manpower required. I am not sure we can arrest our way to a solution here. Many of the bikes and atv's can be legally confiscated.
I am not sure we can arrest our way to a solution here.
This. If this gets solved, it won't be solved by arrests.
Not everyone is an obnoxious asshole. It is not racist to arrest the people ruining Franklin Park. The criminals ruining the park have only themselves to blame.
more arrests don't equal more safety
Have to step up and put pressure on those who are partying in Franklin Park, setting off fireworks at all hours, and illegally operating dirt bikes if they don't want the police to "criminaliz[e] black and brown youth." If leaders like Mejia don't want to use the law to enforce community standards of behavior, then they need to push the community itself to enforce those standards on its members.
Here's the thing: If you know that the most cops can do is give offenders a stern talking-to, where's the incentive to change behavior? You can't fine people because we can't criminalize people for not paying fines (so who bothers to pay the fines?) We certainly can't arrest them -- and even if we did disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace aren't to be prosecuted. There is no function of law enforcement in situations where the law is not to be enforced.
It's cringe that anyone makes excuses--quiet enjoyment is already ruined by many unavoidable things but to excuse this as accommodating/ being respectful of other cultures is among the most tone-deaf and dumbest takes I've seen...
this is what every politician says! Screw them all!
He sounds like a man who realizes that dirt bike riders don’t vote in city elections.
...state reps don't run in city elections.
Marty Walsh repped for the 13th Suffolk for 17 years prior to twice running for mayor, so I'm going to assume that Rep. Holmes is taking the opportunity to having his name becoming more recognizable both within his district and beyond, given the lack of solutions/leadership/ganas that beleaguer these persistent issues.
Maybe he can explain to the BPD leadership that "Fuck you, pay me" is not the best strategy for dealing with quality of life issues.
Or maybe even any elections at all, at least in the numbers that will override the votes of citizens who prefer peace and quiet.
Not quite as bad as swan-y river but your pushing it @Friartuck.
He is a good man who has the courage of his convictions to speak out on issues ranging from police brutality to safety for his constituents.
Blasting music at full volume until all hours of the night is totally inconsiderate of the rights of those to get a good, decent night's sleep so that they can go about their daily lives and business. No matter who people are, what walk of life they are, or where they come from, etc., nobody has the right to just walk all over and disregard the rights of others like that. It's completely and totally wrong--and inappropriate, to boot.
"While police explained that they did not want to risk setting off a confrontation with a huge crowd, Holmes said residents of the area — who were kept up all night — told him they thought the police were intentionally allowing the disruption to go on all night to show those calling for a reduced police presence in the community what that could lead to."
Go back to other conversations about this on uhub and you'll see cops basically expressing this sentiment.
Seems like step 1 in the cop playbook anytime they get serious pushback for misconduct.
As if the standard of having a trustworthy, respectful police force AND have them handle these quality of life issues is too much to fathom.
If they enforce the law, they are blasted for targeting people of color. If they don't enforce the law, then they are "intentionally allowing the disruption to go on all night to show those calling for a reduced police presence in the community what that could lead to." We've had threads on this site (pre-Covid) about the dirt bikers/ATV riders joyriding all over town and the attitude from some folks is that it's just black and brown kids trying to have fun, so the police need to leave them alone.
So, you're the police precinct commander, or shift sergeant.
There's a large group of "black and brown" youths partying late at night. Or frankly, the color is irrelevant except for the recent news cycles and sensitivities.
If you don't break it up, you're at best not doing your jobs, and at worst, conspiring to prove a point about police budgets.
If you try to break it up, and someone simply refuses to leave, what do you do? Use force ? Which could then make the national news of how you used force on people just trying to have a party?
Or maybe you call in every available officer, including from neighboring precincts/departments, so that the numbers overwhelm the situation? That leaves other areas with less coverage if a true emergency happens. And could also lead to OT.
So, Rep Holmes, Mayor Janey, City Councilors; honest question. What do you do? What, exactly, should BPD do?
But I hate the argument that we deserve the same as this place or that place. Everyone does deserve the same but it is up to those residents to implement it. Everything doesn’t have to be about race, dirtbags that disturb neighbors come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. I.E. - see last weeks post about South Boston and CC Flynn and CC Flaherty. Maybe we should just come to the realization that this generation lacks common courtesy and do better with the next generation to prevent it from reoccurring.
There have been multiple community meetings full of residents trying to implement it.
Rep.Holmes came across as the clearest in representing constituents. The other political officials and staffers not so much, at least in my opinion.
A police representative stated that at other late night noise events police have stopped the party. On those occasions there were was NO violence from anyone.
So we know that Boston police can break up these parties and the noise makers will leave. Why this was not done at the Harambee Park incident is a good question.
Well....It doesn't matter where these noisy all night parties are, or who's doing this stuff. If the partiers in question persist on carrying on with totally disregarding other people's right, and the police have to break up such overly noisy parties up, so be it. It serves the partiers right! No sympathy!
All of these posts about noise pollution are focused on the wrong thing, they all come off as wanting tougher penalties for noise. Criminalizing joy and parties isn't going to get you peace, because you can't stop people from partying and getting together.
This is the same arguments I heard in my youth, so at least 40 years of arguing over loud music and disrespecting people's right to peace. All subjective
I don't know the solution but while we're in a pandemic, I much prefer the parties be outside and if the city doesn't have spaces where people can do this, they will create spaces. Y'all all sound like you want to outlaw fun - you sound old even to me.
I prefer parties be inside and sane. No body as any right to disturbing the peace. Outlawing fun is a strawman argument. Has nothing to do with what is happening.
Technology is part of the problem. If concert level speakers, and aftermarket motorcycles exhausts either did not exist, or were not affordable for individuals, then the hardware would not be in the hands of people who abuse the equipment.
The issue has nothing to do with anyone having fun. The issue is abusing sound by using equipment that creates gross levels of noise. The issue is violating the right to peace and quiet everyone possesses. The issue is harm caused by loud noise.
Would the party folks be happy if Bush I era speakers were set up near their homes, just as the US military blasted the Vatican Embassy in Panama?
Noise, excitement, etc. are often part and parcel of youth. But that alone does not justify what is tantamount to harming residents.
On the other hand, if the party goers want outdoor places to make big noise, how about renting Suffolk Downs and paying for noise absorbing walls? If they want to use concert level speakers then where is their energy and money spent toward providing themselves with places that do not cause harm to others?
That is a terrific way for the party folks to show their cooperation.
How about outdoor parties that end at 10 PM?
As for the dirt bikers, I don't have a happy medium for them.
Life isn't returning to the stone ages and people are going to get together regardless, sending them to East Boston isn't helpful since they likely live around Franklin Park.
Also, a lot of the louder cars, if you checked, have old school loud speakers literally in the backseat. Again, because lack of access doesn't stop the show, maybe y'all should do a study of what factors lead to people wanting to get to together and party (very loudly) since it's beyond most of y'all.
So the partiers in Franklin Park get a free pass on all the public health mandates put in place to curtail the spread of Covid because they just want to have fun? You think the rest of us are enjoying this?
With all respect: shut the hell up. Criminals have no right to wake up people at 3 am just because they are little attention whores with no attention from mommy
Fuck off, they aren't criminals and none of your comment is productive or a counter point.
It’s the inner city! There’s no open space to ride ATV’s and dirt bikes. Is the City going to allow these kids to use the golf course for this purpose? The W. J. Devine is one of the greatest reclamation projects in decades.
The issue is there is no clear easy solution. The best solution is for local residents to form community walking groups that work with the police.
The police are concerned about coming off as too harsh. They might also feel vindictive. I am sure the answer lies somewhere in the middle. So lets get a group of locals together to go on walks with the police to break this stuff up. The people doing this know that the police have their hands tied and have tied their own feet out of frustration so nothing is going to happen. If the police show up with the granny brigade though the narrative changes. The police can be a little more direct and forceful but will also stay within the confines of what they should be doing if they have people with them. The people causing the trouble will then have to answer to their communities for why granny had to come down at 2am.
Can also get Madea-val on those fools if they don't turn down the music/go home.
"If the parents were getting in charge of the children here, we wouldn’t be having all these issues."
My brain inserted a "missing" comma and I read the headline as:
The state rep who is sick of Franklin Park, parties
Is Russell Holmes racist when he says this? I feel gatherings at Franklin Park is fine. It is a beautiful park.
There isn't a single person commenting on this article in favor of this behavior that lives within 10 miles of Franklin Park.
The argument is about arresting them.
or it wouldn't keep happening. The Globe columnist Marcela Garcia published a column that came pretty close to endorsing it.
Pointing out that it isn't terrorism, is not the same thing as endorsing it.
People seem to forget that there is a zoo in the park. All this noise is the worst for the animals.
I live across the street and it doesn't bother me, doesn't invalidate people who are bothered by it though I hope they would just join in and meet their community instead of calling the police on their neighbors.
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