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People moved out of Suffolk County after the pandemic hit

WBUR reports that Suffolk County - Boston and three far smaller communities - lost 24,000 people from 2020 to 2021.

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Comments

Sadly, had to leave because of the ever rising rents.

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In our case it was the schools.

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Still in the 128 belt but moved due to the age of our kids and BPS.

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my great grandparents built a triple decker in brighton in 1912 and my family was in that house until 2015. as a child i couldn't attend BPS because of bussing and the terrible (and dangerous) school system that followed. i loved it here because of all the families and strong neighborhood bonds. i started wanting to leave because i didn't know anyone in my neighborhood anymore. all the old ladies with the big houses, once filled with families, died and the houses were sold and split into 6 unit apartments. i left when i had my kids because the schools have never improved at all. i left because the empty streets i played on as a child were now completely filled with parked cars and trash. i still work in the city everyday and sometimes i feel like i cant breathe because there is not much open space anymore and its way too overcrowded. my kids are in great schools now and i have a driveway. the kids in my neighborhood play on the empty street in front of my house after school everyday as i once did. its not the same as where i grew up but its close. i would have loved to have raised my kids in the city i grew up in but its gone.

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"Because of bussing" = your family was afraid of Black people.

Overcrowded is nonsense in 1910 Boston had 670,585 people, not much smaller than today, but by 1920 it was 748,060 and the population peaked at over 800,000 in the 1950s.

In plenty of Boston neighborhoods kids still play in the street, and all statistics point to it actually being less dangerous than it ever was.

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my family wasn’t afraid of black people. i was afraid of kids throwing rocks and police cars everywhere. chaos. were you there?

sorry i misspelled busing

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So one of your complaints about Boston is too many cars. Do you drive in? If so you are part of the problems you complained about.
I agree that drivers are a danger to the children of Boston as they are the #1 killer of kids in America.

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That's what you get from his comment?

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I get the casually racist vibes that come with complaining about busing and old ladies being replaced by unnamed interlopers. We get it, you’d rather move to an absurdly homogeneous suburb than raise your children in an interesting and diverse city.

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I was hoping some holier-than-thou city boy would tell me how to live my life. Do you ever think that some people live in the burbs because their jobs are in the burbs? I've lived out in I-495-land for 20+ years because I had a unique job I loved that happened to be out here.

You and kinopio should hang out together.

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Or in this case, when you are obsessed with automobiles, all problems are automobiles.

Let's just be happy that he doesn't care about schools or some other real quality of life issue.

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housing prices and costs go down. Building more units do nothing to lower housing costs in fact just the opposite. People move out of Boston, demand and costs go down.

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Build more to glut the market is another form of "trickledown economics." Prices will always go up. This results in higher property assessments which are then passed on to renters. It's a viscous circle.

Show me stats that will specifically show that anytime there was a housing glut that rates when down. It's just not possible for a property owner to ever go down. Their taxes only go up.

It didn't work when Ron Regan started it and it still doesn't today.

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Trickle down is the idea that cutting taxes on the rich will leave them with more money to invest into the economy and they'll use that money to pay workers more. It's a bullshit theory because wages are determined by bargaining power, not how much money your employer has (so the rich just hoard the wealth).

Building enough housing to keep up with demand has nothing to do with this.

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Everything you said has been proven wrong.

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In the early 60’s and again in the 70’s when busing started. Housing costs tanked. Prove that wrong.

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Get your facts straight. When the Jewish community moved out of Bluehill Ave and Roxbury the property values didn’t go down?

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How does increasing supply do the opposite of lowering housing costs? It's a supply/demand issue.

If someone can explain how increasing supply will lead to the increase in costs, I would love to hear it.

And look at the suburbs right now. Homes outside of the city of skyrocketed the last 2 years because of demand (and the lack of supply).

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BPS and the cold drove us out. No reason to stick it out with permanent remote work at Boston level salaries in locations with half the cost of Boston. Just sold our Dot condo and moving south in a month.

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Quincy, Milton, or Dedham?

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Out of state. Made a mint on our condo sale and parlaying that into a custom house with a pool.

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So how do they know they all "moved" and didn't die or become homeless or are sleeping on a friend's couch?

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Going to go out on a limb and suggest they know how to differentiate between people who have moved and people who have died.

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But that comes to an end next week.

As my dad said when he retired from his job after 40 years: "Best wishes for your future, if you want one." We had fun, Boston, but your 2022 incarnation has some things to sort out.

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.

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I miss the beer and the lakes.

I said I never would. Hell hath frozen over.

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Best wishes! Part of me is seriously thinking about going back to the 413…

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My company is based out of Burlington, so I did a nearly two year long stint in Colchester, pre and during COVID. I had an option to stay longer, but it made more sense for us to sell our house during COVID and take advantage of the housing boom (tbh, we were ready to go anyway).

I've been up twice since vaccines have been available and my take is that it's....different. Housing is nearly impossible to find, it's expensive as shit and not great. I drove over to the circle in Winooski for a few drinks and the traffic was backed up around the circle all the way into Burlington. This was at 6pm. From what I hear, that's all of Chittenden County and the county north of that.

I sure do miss ice cold Labatt's and wings on Friday's at Rozzi's though.

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Housing is nearly impossible to find, it's expensive as shit and not great.

I agree with you about VT (I've been looking) but the above could be said about 90% of the country.

America stopped building houses and demographics have caught up. Metro Boston is not unique.

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Magoo left Magoo’s home in Boston for a bit during Covid. Magoo went to Mexico City. But Magoo missed Magoo’s friends and family so Magoo moved back. Magoo luvs it here. Magoo.

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Oops. Magoo pressed save twice. Magoo

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Is the continued demand for housing (buying & renting) with this outflow.

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I have not left but I can't afford to move.

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But to what extent would on campus vs remote college students affect the census during 2021?

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If they list their parents home as primary; they are not counted in City numbers. If they were in a dorm or other campus housing they are counted as such. Same for nursing homes, prisons and group homes. Group housing is not included in resident numbers.

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This is likely a major factor in Suffolk's population loss in this year's census. Enough so that some pols had been asking the census to consider doing a recount.

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For April 2020, in a "normal" academic year, the students would and should be counted at their college address. But if they spent summer 2020 through summer 2021 at home, because they knew their classes for the academic year 2020-2021 would be 100% remote, how would they be counted under the guidance of

college students will be counted at their “usual residence” on April 1, 2020 or where they live and sleep “most of the time.”

apply to how they were counted?

I'm not sure you can count a place as where you "sleep most of the time" if you haven't slept there at any point in a 12-18 month period.

The students who opted to be fully remote for an entire academic year, or took a year-long leave from school because they did not want to take their classes online, would likely NOT be counted in school records as having either a dorm or local off-campus address for the academic year. The document provided clearly states that the college or university is the one that reports on-campus residential data to the Census Bureau, not the individual student.

The data being presented to us in the above story, is about a year to year change, 2020 to 2021.

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How is this even possible? Prices aren't rising as fast as they were but they are still riding, they haven't even seen a freeze.

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Somerville has seen a pretty significant drop in population over the past ~10 years. What's happened is that rental units which used to hold a family or a bunch of roommates have been converted to condos owned and occupied by a couple. Even while Somerville adds housing in Assembly, it shrinks overall.

Boston might be the same. Fewer families and residents overall even if the total number of units keeps rising. Demand is still high enough that few landlords feel the need to drop or hold rents.

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My theory is that while burbs remain very popular, especially among child-having adults, there’s been a big influx of younger professionals into the city and also older empty nesters. These folks have money and have continued to drive the housing market even while others flee to the burbs or cheaper areas beyond.

We recently sold condo in JP for a big premium over what we bought it for a few years ago. Crazy demand in JP from people moving from ‘downtown’ looking for more space, and also people coming in from outside the city. It’s a hybrid workers dream - city access, more room than BB, BH, SE, Southie.

And those who can’t get on the ladder have to move away because prices (to buy or rent) keep increasing.

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Any Census numbers for Boston should be treated with skepticism as there was a significant undercount due to the pandemic and the Trump administration's efforts to mess with it to harm Democratic areas.

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In fact, the only way that one could dismiss these numbers outright would be if the Trump administration tried to overcount Bostonians in 2020.

These numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. They are pure estimates based on a lot of circumstantial data. They could be spot on, or they could be off. I can remember about 20 years ago Boston was hit was a loss of population in the estimates. The Menino administration basically told the Census Bureau to run the numbers again. My gut has always been that the City always overestimates population (we were supposed to be well over 700,000 according to the BPDA in 2020, which was never going to happen) while the algorithms of the Census Bureau puts us lower.

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And the schools suck the pandemic is not reason families are leaving.

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Is one of the main reason for the moves I bet.
I know 2 families personally who moved because their kids were getting to school age.
One moved to Brookline the other to Stoughton.

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I hope people running the schools are paying attention. The drop in school attendance is likely even higher. I don’t know what they expected keeping the schools closed for that long on top of it all. It is true that people with families left due to public schools issues. A decent amount that stayed found other schooling options if they were available to them. I would be willing to assume that private school attendance in the area is up.

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I don't know why you are all complaining about the schools all the time. It's only very rarely that a BPS staff member shoots a student, uses them to sell drugs, or tries to recruit them to join a self-help cult.

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I think this current waive of emigrants have to do with Covid and the early retirements that go with it.

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BPS school enrollment numbers have plummeted in the last 18 months. I don’t doubt others left the city for reasons unrelated to schools, but when you lose thousands of students in a short period, that means people are vacating your city because of the schools.

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but you definitely haven't provided enough support in your statement to assign such causality.

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Enrollment in a number of cities is going down at a much higher rate than other areas.

https://www.bostonindicators.org/reports/report-website-pages/covid_indi...

“ Boston Public Schools (BPS) experienced an enrollment decline of more than 2,000 students this year for a total decline of just over 4,500 across the pandemic. This change is not encouraging when placed against state enrollment, which remained flat compared to last year.”

There are around 54,000 BPS students. They’re close to losing 10% in 2 years.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/15/1062999168/school-enrollment-drops-for-se...

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That just repeats the statement that enrollment is down and happening rapidly, which I was not nor do I have any reason to question. Enrollment in schools dropping would likely trend with overall population decreases, but the fact alone that it is happening does not assign a cause.

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BPS is in a lot of trouble if their per student cost goes above $30k, which they’re dangerously close to now.

And to question your questioning - BPS student population is decreasing at a rapid pace. What other cause is there aside from people leaving the city or moving their kids to private school both of which are bad for BPS? You’re getting caught in the details and the true answer is obvious.

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I guess only if you want to be taken seriously.

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I don’t have one.

I’m leaving the state because I can continue to make lots and lots of money in a state that costs 1/3 that of Boston AND has way better weather (hint - it’s not Florida). BPS was never really an issue for us because we make enough money to send our son to the best of the best without noticing it, but it’s still frustrating that I’m continuing (for a little while longer) to pay for that disgrace.

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I have no problem with winter and actually embrace it.
Warm climates are unbearingly hot in the summer, at least for me.
To each, his/her/their own.

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Like everything, ‘nice’ weather varies person to person. July/August is warm where I’m going, but that’s why we have a beautiful in ground pool. ;)

We hate the cold, but love winter activities, which is why we’re in the process of buying a condo in Park City, UT too. Waaaay better skiing and we only experience the cold when we want to.

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You’re correct in saying correlation does not imply causation, however, I think if you look at the disparity in dropping enrollment in cities vs their states, you will see the numbers do not lie. Schools in cities stayed closed longer than in suburban and rural areas during Covid. This definitely factored into parents deciding to enroll their children in other schools that were open, either through moving or going to private school.

The people making the decisions to keep the schools closed for so long should have seen this coming, as well as any other problems that have arisen or increased.

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It was happening long before busing came in.

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As we continue to reduce standards of the few good schools left for "diversity."

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Schools should only serve the white kids who can afford tutoring! Fuck yeah, willisan!

Which suburb do you live in, by the way?

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Right now, I am barely able to afford to live here in Boston. I can't afford to get the first, last, security and brokers fee needed to move (which could be over $10,000) And if I move farther from Boston, the cost to commute to my job goes way up. Commuter rail passes are very expensive. So any money I save, goes to commuting.

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Where are you trying to move, London? I just paid $2,550 for first/last/security.

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First: 2400
Last:2400
Security:2400
Broker: 2400

Total: 9600

Rent for my 2.5 bedroom in Hyde Park is 2400 a month.

2550? For all 3? You can't get a closet for that amount. Have you been living on the moon?

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You can't tell us you're moving to VT and then act like the housing costs are the same there as here?

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First: $875
Last: $875
Security: $437.50
Broker fee: $437.50

I paid $2,625. Two roommates.

Jen, who sleeps in the other 1.5 bedrooms in your home, and do they pay bills?

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I'd guess the majority of three BR apartments have an average rent payer per unit under 2, being occupied by single parents or families.

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I live with two single roommates.

My rent was $525 when I moved down there in 2003 first year (Cambridge apartment before I knew which Boston neighborhoods were hip).

Was $530 from 2004 well into the 2010's. I got lucky. Went 15 years without moving, and I waited out some real (expletive) roommates in the process. Got to $750 circa 2016(?). Went to $775 in 2019, now $875.

And now I get to live alone again after ending with a couple of really good ones. You didn't break me, Boston.

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I live with my husband, my almost 3 year old grandson and my brother. My husband takes care of the grandson, until he starts K0 at BPS in April. My brother is a lot of issues and is only working retail. My one decent salary only barely covers rent.

You are very lucky to live in that Brighton place. It is so far from the norm to pay that rent. I am jealous.

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Certainly on the lower end for places with only two roomies at this point. I took what I could get this past November after not getting renewed at my old place for renovations.

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Would 100% virtual college students by itself explain this change?

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Virtual students are counted as if they’re on campus.

https://www.prb.org/resources/coronavirus-and-the-2020-census-where-shou...

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The trend may continue. I moved out of Boston this month. I owned my place (well, own, fingers crossed the sale goes through in a timely fashion!), so rents weren't the problem, and I don't have kids, so neither were the schools. I figure that everyone is born with only so many winters in them, and I ran out about three years ago, so I have settled into a tropical zone (yep, crazy Florida!). The real culprit is of course having a white collar job that I can do from anywhere I have a decent internet connection.

I'll always miss Boston, and I'm sure I'll visit often. During the warm non-snowy months. My ring-tone remains "Dirty Water", of course.

What's amusing is that everyone else down here is complaining about rising real estate costs, and I've got a serious case of reverse-sticker-shock. Just shows how truly insane the prices up there are. I am sympathetic to those who don't have the ability to move somewhere warmer or cheaper!

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One of the reasons I moved here from Georgia was colder weather and less sun... ;-)

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The current US birth rate of 1.7 will take care of this housing shortage within 2 generations.

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We bought a home in Boston in 2011 , at the bottom of the market so we could cash out and move out of the city, But anywhere we'd want to go is more expensive due to higher demand than Boston, higher taxes by double if nothing else due to our residential exemption. And our kids are in BPS doing pretty well, so we're staying, atleast for now as Milton isn't getting cheaper! Hopefully the schools will improve as the headcount goes down.

And we bought a two family in New Bedford last year as an investment, our tenants pay $875 and $1,050 each for a small two bedroom, so that's an example of a city that's still affordable, for now until the train to Boston stops down there....

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