Alejandra Caraballo noticed the odd headline in the Globe paper edition on Friday:
Transgender boxer advances
Which was, of course, about the Algerian woman boxer that transphobes like J.K. Rowling, Elon Musk and failed presidential candidate Ron DeSantis just know is really a man even though they're wrong.
The Globe apologized for the headline today, although without saying how it happened, how it plans to keep it from happening again:
A significant error was made in a headline on a story in Friday’s print sports section about Algerian boxer Imane Khelif incorrectly describing her as transgender. She is not. Additionally, our initial correction of this error neglected to note that she was born female. We recognize the magnitude of this mistake and have corrected it in the epaper, the electronic version of the printed Globe. This editing lapse is regretful and unacceptable and we apologize to Khelif, to Associated Press writer Greg Beacham, and to you, our readers.
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Comments
Isn't this a bit more
By anon
Sat, 08/03/2024 - 11:18pm
Isn't this a bit more strongly worded than the typical Globe correction? "This editing lapse is regretful and unacceptable and we apologize to Khelif, to Associated Press writer Greg Beacham, and to you, our readers."
there’s nothing strange
By berkleealum
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 7:12am
let alone nefarious about the Globe’s awareness of the cultural impact around transgender issues in today’s climate
I'm sure lawyers were involved
By SwirlyGrrl
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:29pm
As they should be.
Calling Khelif "transgender" in print is libel as it could result in her death by right wing whack jobs or just a gang of assholes.
There is a real price for this - and I hope that lawsuits were threatened because this wasn't an editing lapse - this was a full-on ignorance at the very least.
Inexcusable
By mg
Sat, 08/03/2024 - 11:58pm
I feel for the two women boxers who are having to deal with these false accusations and hatred.
Be neutral on this issue
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 4:59am
We don't know what the full story is. There's no transparency, only ideological positions. The Globe takes ideological positions, if you didn't know.
What were the International Boxing Association tests, how trustworthy were they and what were the results?
What are the International Olympic Committee standards, if any, and how are they verified?
Is it an XX vs XY chromosome and intersex issue which gives her advantages, as has been stated from the IBA?
Personally, I would let her compete if that were the case. Women boxing is savagery in any event, might as well increase the savagery to deter girls from entering the sport.
I feel bad for everyone involved, including Imane and the other boxers. Praying for them all.
It does not appear to be a case of overweening narcissism like that of the swimmer Lia Thomas.
why do i need to be neutral?
By berkleealum
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 7:17am
i was told the difference between a man and a woman is readily apparent. common sense, they said.
because who knows?
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 7:33am
I've read there can be apparent significant differences. As I said, I would let her compete if an XY intersex. She's been beaten before.
If I were an XX boxer at the Olympics I might feel differently.
But She Isn't
By Sator
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 11:28am
But she simply isn't XY.
That is a lie you were told, and swallowed whole.
You are now here trying to reach conclusions based on bigoted assumptions - and nobody is here for it but you.
Grow the fuck up, kid. Misgendering someone else for your lols is not the flex you think it is.
How do you know?
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 12:11pm
Do you know her? Have you conducted tests and examinations?
Otherwise please provide a reference for your statement. Otherwise I assume you make things up for ideological reasons.
Why are you blathering on about this, counselor?
By Pete X
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:23pm
All you know is a bunch of untrustworthy ideologues found another innocent person to subject to a 2 minutes hate in order to advance their ongoing campaign of hatred, which the Globe stupidly amplified. Now you're jumping in based on hearsay to thoughtfully scratch your chin and call for "tests and examinations" of genitals. Hmmm... perhaps you are ALSO an ideologue? Nah... couldn't be.
But where are the "tests and examinations" documented by the people instigating this dangerous trans-panic?
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/boxing/o...
Oh they're aren't any.
This could be cleared up by now
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:39pm
The IOC's standards aren't clear and they don't require testing anymore.
It would be pretty easy to conduct tests on all of the women boxers. Paris has the most advanced labs.
The physiognomy and power of these two boxers is obvious. They've defeated other boxers who have qualified through their own national and regional boxing federations in qualifying bouts in SECONDS.
Also, applying Occam's Razor, why make an accusation which could be easily disproved if there was transparency? What would be the motive to make this up, and why would women boxers refuse to fight them for a chance at an Olympic medal? What's the simplest explanation for the controversy?
Again, I say let them fight in any event, but there should be transparency. Some boxers might not want to risk the fate of Maggie in [i]Million Dollar Baby.[/i] This is a safety issue.
So Your Mask Comes Off
By Pete X
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 2:03pm
Why do you keep doing this "just asking question" bit? Occam's Razor, why do you keep jumping in in favor of an unsourced hate campaign clearly being run by people like JK Rowling with longstanding axes to grind?
If you bothered to read the article I linked to, you'll see Khelif has a boxing record 37-9. That seems like a pretty non-exciting record for a world-class olympic boxer, especially someone you claim has the OBVIOUS "physiognomy and power" you mention. In your fantastic framing, she only could have lost to 9 other boxers with MORE OBVIOUS physiognomy and power.
Legit, we don't know
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 2:17pm
Which is why I'm in a position of equanimity.
Women (and perhaps men) shouldn't be boxing anyways, and it's ok for me if XY women fight XX women because it could drive XX women out of that sport.
But I understand the objections of XX boxers if being XY gives you significant physical advantages.
They misguidedly devoted their lives to this Olympic quest, only to be confronted in the last days with possible chromosomally anomalous opponents.
a position of equanimity
By Rusty
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 4:44pm
A a position of equanimity?
"Women (and perhaps men) shouldn't be boxing anyways..."
That doesn't sound like a very balanced statement.
As other posters have been trying to tell you, the only source that she might possibly be anything other than fully female is a discredited Russian boxing "authority" (the IBA, who were [i]stripped of any recognition [b]by the IOC[/b][/i]) who refused to reveal anything about how they came to the conclusion that she did not meet there eligibility requirements. So, at this point, any conclusion one might draw from that would be base speculation [i]at best[/i].
mike 'bison' vs. peter 'medfield' mcneeley ?
By schneidz
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 6:05pm
How do _you_ know that any
By Vicki
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 3:38pm
How do _you_ know that any other random woman competing in the Olympics is female enough to meet your standards? They haven't been tested either--but suddenly when a non-white woman is winning competitions and medals, the haters come out and say she doesn't meet their standard of femininity.
There is exactly no evidence for your claims, and there is evidence that this came from a Russian sports organization that isn't recognized internationally.
I have trans friends who you would look at and automatically label as female, and cis friends who are worried that some bully will make them the next target of gender policing. It's not as though most people, of any gender, carry around their birth certificates.
the IBA
By Sator
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 11:12am
Has been BANNED from the international Olympic movement.
For reasons. They are just some group of gyms, mostly in eastern europe, and tied deeply to organized crime.
They are the fox in the henhouse, not the guard dog.
IBA not only source
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 12:21pm
the Vice President of the World Boxing Association also said the tests were XY
The IOC is also not free of corruption, has been an issue for years.
The IOC could also clear this up in an hour.
You got a source for that?
By brianjdamico
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:07pm
I'm not finding any recent news articles that cite any statements by WBA Vice President Renzo Bagnariol.
Or did you mean the organization World Boxing, in which case, not finding the same for World Boxing VP Ryan O’Shea
correction -World Boxing Organization VP
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:27pm
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1147391/vp...
A Hungarian sports official, Istvan Kovacs, has claimed Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is not female. The European vice president of the World Boxing Organisation said he alerted the IOC about alleged male participation in women’s boxing in 2022, but no action was taken.
In an interview with Magyar Nemzet, Kovacs confirmed speculation that Khelif was biologically male, noting that gender tests revealed this. He said, “The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is biologically male.”
Kovacs also mentioned that five boxers, including Khelif, were tested by the International Boxing Association and all were found to be male. He reported these results to the IOC but claimed he has yet to receive a response. The Hungarian official expressed concerns about Hungarian boxer Anna Luca Hamori's upcoming match against Khelif, stating that Hamori “was simply not trained for this” and emphasised the risk she faces.
The last few years have seen a long breakdown of relations between the International Boxing Association (IBA) and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) which last June resulted in the Olympic organisers stripping the IBA of recognition. In April, a breakaway body, World Boxing, was then launched with Dutch federation head Boris van der Vorst elected as its first president.
He's also an IBA official
By ckd
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 3:37pm
Wikipedia: "In March 2021, Kovács was appointed as a secretary general of AIBA under its new president, Umar Kremlev." (He's the Putin pal who disqualified her days after she beat a Russian boxer.)
He cites the IBA's undisclosed tests, no second source.
This isn't the "independent viewpoint" flex you were looking for, and took almost no time to check.
Go fuck your hating asshole self
By SwirlyGrrl
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:31pm
KHELIF IS A WOMAN. FULL. FUCKING. STOP.
If this is an unfair advantage, are we going to have height tests now? Tests for oxygen usage?
NEARLY EVERY OLYMPIAN IS A FREAK OF NATURE IN SOME WAY THAT GIVES THEM A STRONG ADVANTAGE. Where do we draw the line pedophile boy?
I'm so sick of your bullshit. This is bullshit hate that kills. Go fuck yourself with a hand blender. Maybe that will cure you of your unnatural and weird obsession with other people's bodies, particularly children.
Get help
By deselby
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:47pm
This is an internet discussion board, not Primal Scream Therapy.
Learn to accept that some people disagree with you. It's healthier. I'm serious.
Asking the impossible
By Username Unknown
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 7:04pm
Some of the overly frequent responders here are incapable of having a civil constructive conversation and always resort to insults and claims that everyone except them have mental illness if you don't agree with them. It has become predictable and expected. This post will prove it.
So...
By lbb
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:23am
...THAT was your takeaway? That's all that you took away from this sea lion's disingenuous "I am just asking" bullshit?
Learn to accept that some
By Bob Leponge
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 6:46am
Yeah. Some people disagree with me: they think that Black people should be enslaved. I don’t. Some think that Jews/gay people/frans people should be rounded up and slaughtered . I don’t.
Don’t lecture me about accepting “disagreement” Fuck that moral equivalence bullshit. I
Kinda funny though
By deselby
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 8:16am
This discussion is about none of the things you listed.
We're discussing a public controversy in sports which is both complicated and obscured. Nobody's getting slaughtered or enslaved.
I say "I'm neutral, think that she [Imane] should be able to box, feel bad for everyone involved, I'm praying for everyone."
Her:
Gives a new meaning to "hate" and "anti-hate"
Flipping out like that is indicative of . . . something.
The amount of caustic abuse she and her twin sister lbb throw out is amazing. Normally would ignore, but that was "over the top."
We're discussing a public
By Bob Leponge
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 8:53am
Catapulting the propaganda of a banned, corrupt, Russian sports organization who found a pretext to damage a boxer retroactively after she defeated a Russian athlete is not “discussing a public controversy,” it is creating one.
not the only one the IBA banned
By deselby
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 9:15am
There is also the Taiwan boxer, Lin. It appears the IOC doesn't test at all. If it did, there would be no questions.
It's a category issue about the category "women's." Analogous to having the weight categories in boxing but then not weighing the boxers.
Even if you wholly discount the IBA allegation (because anything any Russian does is fake and bad), there have been the reactions and complaints of the other women boxers.
Seems like people here forgot that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
I feel bad because being born without ovaries but with internal testicles and ambiguous external genitalia is not ideal and you want them to succeed and overcome and be happy.
But if it results in increased musculature and punching power, not defining the category "women's" is not just supporting the possibly XY individuals, but saying "fuck you" to the XX individuals who are now disabled by their sex.
It's amazing that in adopting the "correct" position towards a small minority, people can be callous towards a much larger category.
"Internal Testicles"
By Pete X
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 9:20am
You really like fantasizing, unprompted, about random people's sex organs, don't you? You a pizza gate guy too, counselor?
Sorry it upsets you.
By deselby
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 9:31am
It's in the background information of this controversy.
As usual, you can't engage in substantive discussion.
I recommend this piece which is the most thorough explanation of what happened.
https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/3/0d4u...?
I did a control-f
By Pete X
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 9:48am
Nothing about "internal testicles", counselor.
Hey, whatever floats your boat in the privacy of your own home! But please, keep your fantasies to yourself from now on, I'm begging you.
for your further edification
By deselby
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:07am
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/olympic-boxer-iman...
I'm embarassed for you.
By Pete X
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:09am
Doing a lot of digging to justify your bizarre comments, aren't you? Just admit your kink and move on. Sheesh.
all my kinks are ironed out
By deselby
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:17am
at 77 years old
Welp
By lbb
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:25am
Maybe it's time to accept that your high school biology classes are a bit outdated, pappy.
Learn to accept that some
By Scratchie
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 8:59am
You are entitled to your own opinion.
You are not entitled to your own facts.
So go fuck yourself sideways.
Boston Globe has a deep
By Rwgfy
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 6:45am
Boston Globe has a deep history of misleading if not outright lies headlines, like then they called "peaceful dismantling of Mass. and Cass a model for tackling homelessness"
Are you disputing statements they attributed?
By brianjdamico
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 9:06am
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/11/02/metro/mass-...
It looks like a paraphrase rather than a direct quotation but I know of no definition of "lie" that involves publishing the statements of a public official that appear to be made in good faith.
Disputing, as in facts and
By Rwgfy
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 5:48pm
Disputing, as in facts and reality?
Yeah so
By brianjdamico
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 9:25pm
it's probably not worth my while tonight describing the differences between objective and subjective statements to someone who doesn't care. People can make either and journalists can report on either.
If "facts and reality" disagree with reported statements that the mayor made, the issue does not lie with the journalist that reported the statements but rather the person who made those statements. Which were, of course, made at a distinct point in time that may be separated from today. But hey, when you want to be disingenuous, the last thing you want is nuance to come into play.
You may begin with "peaceful"
By Rwgfy
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 12:43am
You may begin with "peaceful"
The Glob got it very wrong
By Sock_Puppet
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 6:49am
As usual.
Nobody has alleged that Khelif is transgender.
The allegations - coming from the head of the IBA, as well as the European vice president of the World Boxing Organization - are that Khelif was given multiple genetic tests and they came back showing XY genes, not XX.
This would suggest that Khelif is an XY individual with a DSD, not an XX individual. The DSD is probably the same as that of as Caster Semenya, 46 XY 5-ARD, as individuals with that DSD are usually assigned female at birth, and (following increase of testosterone during puberty) do very well in women's sport.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5α-Reductase_2_deficiency
The IBA
By Sator
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 11:49am
Has been BANNED by the International Olympic movement.
FIVE years ago.
This is sour grapes, using a woman from a Sunni Muslim nation and calling her something she is not.
It is deplorable, thats the correct word.
You are lying, and you're capable of learning better and smugly choosing to not.
You're what's wrong.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/paris-2024-summer-olymp...
Learning
By Sock_Puppet
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 5:16pm
I believe also you are capable of learning. You could start by pointing out, specifically, any actual lies I said. You will find none; then you would learn that in fact, _you_ are lying.
It is true that the IOC does not accept the rulings of the IBA, which it did until 2019. Over the years, organizations grow and shrink; the IBA is currently shrinking. There are currently four major ones: the WBA, the WBC, the IBF, and the WBO. Note that those four organizations currently control most boxing, and typically accept each other's rulings. But the IOC doesn't accept determinations from _any_ of the organizations involved in certifying boxing.
The fact that the IOC is controlling eligibility itself instead of following any of the organizations controlling world boxing outside the Olympics doesn't mean the IBA and other organizations cease to exist, however. The IBA continued to hold the World Boxing Championships in 2023, despite being on the decline, and it was tests given at the 2023 and 2022 events that allegedly showed Khelif to be XY.
Currently, it seems the IOC is relying mostly on "history" and "passport" standards, instead of any scientific testing. They won't test Khelif et. al. for either testosterone or chromosomes, and get heated when asked about it. As a top WBO official has also said that Khelif is not eligible to compete as a woman, following genetic testing, the Olympics will probably be the only place Khelif can officially box with women going forward.
While we are on the subject of learning, you could probably to well to learn something about the medical conditions at the heart of the dispute, specifically the DSD of 46 XY 5-ARD. The best and most complete writeup of it, with reference to sport, is in Quillette:
https://quillette.com/2024/08/03/xy-athletes-in-wo...
46 XY 5-ARD is the syndrome that Castor Semenya has, along with several runners of the same generation who are now barred from competing in women's events. If the allegations by the IBA and WBO officials are correct, it's probably what Khelif has too.
Such a condition is no reason to be unkind to Khelif or to anybody. It's got to make life more difficult, and we should not want to make others' lives more difficult. That said, there are women in the Olympics today who are having a very hard time with the idea that their opponents have the unfair advantage of male puberty and physique (e.g. Svetlana Staneva), and calling them names is unseemly as well.
In some countries, such as the Dominican Republic, children with 46 XY 5-ARD who grow up as girls are reclassified as boys after they go through male puberty. You can look that up yourself unless you want me to find you a reference.
Apt user name
By bgl
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 11:58pm
The VP in question, István Kovács, was the secretary general of the IBA, and is referring to the same unsubstantiated IBA tests that were supposedly done after Imane Khelif beat an undefeated Russian boxer, restoring her record by disqualifying Imane Khelif. Furthermore, IOC revoked the IBA's Olympic status due to corruption of it's officials and governance, as the IBA is deeply connected with Russian organized crime.
There is absolutely no published or available evidence that Imane Khelif is not a woman. Only the word of a corrupted Russian boxing organization who never released any tests or results, and only announced these findings after one of their own boxers were beaten.
But, yeah, glad you live up to your username.
Unfortunate, yes. But in
By dvg
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 7:30am
Unfortunate, yes. But in fairness to the Globe, this article is from Associated Press. AP is a generally reputable outlet. I don’t expect a regional paper to fact check every AP sport article from matches happening in distant lands before publishing.
Article is from the AP, but
By Anon
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 7:53am
Article is from the AP, but as the globe reveals by apologizing to the AP, they write the headline. Not surprising as the Globe has gotten more conservative over the years from when it leaned center left in the 90s and before, to when it went all pro business, and lean center right now.
The Globe is center-right?
By ScottB
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 12:44pm
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Maybe compared to the attendees at a Bernie Sanders rally?
this, but unironically
By berkleealum
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 4:02pm
n/t
Disgusting sport no matter
By Whit
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 8:35am
Disgusting sport no matter the gender.
Why did they apologize to AP?
By Starluna
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 8:39am
Given that they apologized to both the AP and the AP writer of the original story, that suggests that they changed the AP headline. I don't know what the rules are about taking AP stories and changing headlines, but I do know that writers are generally not the ones who come up with the headlines. So it is not inconceivable that someone at the Globe took the AP story credited it to its original author, but then made up their own headline.
What?
By bgl
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 8:53am
They published the AP story and sensationalized the head line, hence apologizing to the AP writer.
In case people want to know
By Anon
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 8:04am
In case people want to know the story behind the test she supposedly failed:
“The IBA, whose president is Umar Kremlev of Russia and is an associate of President Vladimir Putin, claimed the fighters had failed unspecified eligibility tests. The decision came shortly after Khelif beat Russian boxer Azalia Amineva, who was previously undefeated.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/totally-unacce...
More Russian Lies and Misinformation
By SwirlyGrrl
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 1:36pm
See any Russians at the Olympics? No? That's because they cheat and lie when they aren't lying and cheating. They have a long history of this bullshit. Cannot be trusted - officially!
The whole "discredit the Olympics" is a combination of Russia having been caught cheating so many times that they have been banned, along with sour grapes that Putin's Manic Fascist Dream Girl got handed her nazi ass by the French electorate.
The sheep just follow along with the extreme braying and don't even know they are being used by a foreign country.
And who has been fired?
By jmeltzer
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 9:11am
Yeah, I know, "the intern did it."
Wait... so they had to correct their first correction?
By u-hub-fan
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 3:26pm
n/t
There’s good absolutists and
By Frelmont
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 3:49pm
There’s good absolutists and intolerants on both sides. We need to be tolerant of the subtleties around these issues. These individuals are people, a he, she, or they, but not an “it.” These individuals have androgen production issues that disqualified them in 2023 even after the testosterone cut off was lowered from 10 to 5 ng/dL.
The World Commission? deemed fighters/athletes eligible to compete for want of information and scientific consensus, not because all the data is in.
It’s an editorial decision, not a scientific decision by all publishers (and the IOC) to use the “de jure” pronouns. And, it’s the correct decision. However, we’re in a lose lose situation of the good of the many vs. the good of the few.
Instead of everybody thumping their chests let’s cool the rhetoric and discuss dispassionately.
What's there to discuss?
By bgl
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 12:03am
There is absolutely no evidence that Imane Khelif is anything but what she says she is. There is no discussion needed over the conjecture of heresay from a corrupt buddy of Putin.
Also, why did you feel the need to spam the comments with multiple top level posts?
Why didn’t the reputable news
By Frelmont
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 5:27pm
Why didn’t the reputable news outlets lead with the disclaimer that this is all a Kremlin misinformation op exploiting this hot societal issue?
Why...
By lbb
Tue, 08/06/2024 - 10:39am
Why don't you ask them?
Just askin' Questions
By bgl
Tue, 08/06/2024 - 12:41pm
If by reputible news outlets you mean the Christian Monitor, or the AP piece that the Globe changed the headline on, then they all did report this, as have all real news outlets.
...
...
...
I mean literally linked in this article you are commenting on. But, you aren't hear for any real meaningful discussion or in good faith, you are just here "asking questions" to harass and bully a woman competing in the Olympics with absolutely no evidence or proof of anything.
No, let's not
By lbb
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:35am
How about no, because it's none of our business to discuss it, dispassionately or otherwise.
This is a societal issue.
By Frelmont
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 5:27pm
This is a societal issue. Especially for parents with daughters and women of the dimorphic variety. Trans people are people and I would fight for them, but This isn’t about trans folk this is about some trans women taking advantage of their endowments to compete with an entire class of the weaker sex.
No.
By lbb
Tue, 08/06/2024 - 10:40am
It's not your business, busybody.
How does it feel being a willing tool?
I’m willing to adjust to new
By Frelmont
Tue, 08/06/2024 - 11:43am
I’m willing to adjust to new information.
Maybe?
By lbb
Tue, 08/06/2024 - 12:32pm
Maybe, when it's spoon-fed to you, after you've regurgitated a bunch of propaganda. Why not use critical thinking skills and not swallow the bullshit to begin with? The truth was always out there.
Heretic.
By Frelmont
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 4:10pm
Heretic.
What
By lbb
Mon, 08/05/2024 - 10:36am
the fresh hell are you on about now?
There - are - four - lights
By Frelmont
Sun, 08/04/2024 - 4:17pm
There - are - four - lights! -Captain JLP
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