Board rejects Starbucks in City Point

By adamg on Thu., 5/5/2016 - 12:10 pm

NECN reports the Boston Licensing Board this morning set the border of Starbucks Nation at Dorchester Street when it sided with residents - and the mayor - and rejected a food-serving license for a Starbucks at L Street and East Broadway.

The board agreed with residents who argued yesterday there's no public need for another coffee place at an intersection that already has five within a block. Starbucks has a number of outlets in the Seaport area and on West Broadway.

The vote is another setback for building owner Michael Norton, who signed a deal with Starbucks for the space after the licensing board rejected his request for a liquor license for the Italian restaurant he wanted to put in there.

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Comments

The $300K would be a worthwhile investment

By HenryAlan
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 10:13am

He doesn't want to pay it, but considering the revenue from the restaurant compared to a coffee shop, I suspect he'd make more money with the former. That $300,000 amortized over ten years would easily be covered by added revenue. A license to sell liquor in the restaurant industry is a license to print money. He needs to suck it up and realize that there is no reason for his business to have a $300,000 advantage over any other restaurant.

A license to print money?

By MC Slim JB
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 2:12pm

I think my take on the economics of running a restaurant in Boston is a little different from yours.

The receipts generated by the drinks you can serve with a full liquor license certainly contribute an inordinate amount to the razor-thin margins on which most restaurants in high-priced Boston neighborhoods survive. Getting a full license is often a contingency for many investors: "Fail to get the license, and we're out."

But financing that $300K up front is a major burden for first-time operators, a big drag on their drive to breaking even. That said, the transferable kind of license is one of the few assets that can be sold for cash if a restaurant fails, making it rather more valuable than just about anything else that owners put into a restaurant.

Thus, full licenses tend to be crucial to a restaurant's ability to eventually turn a profit, especially in neighborhoods like Back Bay. It's no license to print money, but an ugly, exorbitant upfront cost necessitated by the arbitrary license scarcity forced on the Boston market.

It's an obvious reason why so many of our talented young independent chefs are choosing the suburbs to open up restaurants rather than in Boston, and why shitty national chains with deep pockets are filling up neighborhoods like the Seaport instead. The cap is an absurd fossil from the days when Brahmins tried to hold onto their last fading control over Boston politics from the State House, and it's a pox on our local restaurant industry.

We are on the same page

By HenryAlan
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 2:11pm

My comment was meant to contrast a restaurant without the license. Sure, up front he needs to find a way to get that money, whether it be through investors or revenue generated by the units above the space. As you point out, the license is what makes the restaurant feasible, but if it succeeds and he doesn't need to sell the license, long term he will make a lot more money than the even more slim margin from coffee.

He wouldn't be making the

By piscis
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 2:19pm

He wouldn't be making the money on coffee if Starbucks went in, he'd be making money on rent. That's a much more predictable cash flow than running a restaurant and a lot less risky. So the margins of Starbucks aren't really relevant other than what he might be able to charge in rent.

Why doesnt the neighborhood

By Heather
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 4:02am

Why doesnt the neighborhood pitch in and buy the license, since they wanted that restaurant so much? When does the neighborhood do anything to make the neighborhood what it "should be"? All the entitled whining about what every business owner should do for you while they try and make their living is getting old. Though, I understand that old Southie resents other people's success even (or especially) if that person is also from Southie.

So glad I'm moving in July.

By anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 12:45pm

So glad I'm moving in July. So tired of this Southie BS. There isn't one decent coffee shop anywhere at City Point where you can just sit and read.

not a resident

By anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 4:35pm

It's too bad you can't make a neighborhood work for you, transplant.

This is one of the nicest parts of the country, feel free to move back to the part that you left to find jobs, history, and education before you came here to complain about not having your fast food coffee.

A lot of towns, even the nice suburbs, try to maintain local businesses at the expense of chains. This is nothing new, and it happens a lot in this part of the country.

It's only nice because of all

By anon
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 7:06pm

It's only nice because of all the new businesses moving to the seaport and bringing jobs. Irrational whining over double parking, which south bostonites love in every other situation, is not what makes Boston nice. All the people you despise make it nice. Lucky for us, we mostly work in the financial district where there's 3 starbucks per city block, yes still quite a few indy cafes.

Get over it.

By anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 12:46pm

It's a Starbucks. If you immigrants want Starbucks coffee go to one on the other Starbucks in the neighborhood. The incessant whining from you drama queens is getting to be too much.

Arm sore?

By John Costello
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 1:23pm

From throwing rocks at school buses? I'm sick of old Southie queens whining about "outsiders". You sound like you are reading from the Jimmy Kelly / John Ciccone pamphlet of wit and wisdom.

Some people would rather

By different anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 4:38pm

Some people would rather maintain interesting local businesses than try to allow yet another chain in, whether they are the existing ones or new ones. You don't have to make thinly veiled insults or insinuate things about people.

The transplants from the part of the countries with chains on every block can choose other neighborhoods during their 3 year stay in the city before moving back to the suburbs.

"Interesting" businesses

By Heather
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 3:47am

"Interesting" businesses where no one likes to go? Like Maggie Moos? That guy made no friends in the neighborhood by being one of the loudest voices to choose for the rest of us where to buy coffee. He may not like "transplants" from the South End, even though he's a transplant from Quincy, and you may not like transplants with better jobs than you, but you don't own the entire peninsula, only you're own dillapidated tripple decker.

It's funny you think the

By MattyC
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 1:29pm

It's funny you think the people who support Starbucks in this location are the ones whining. We're not the ones who lodged bogus complaints about double parking in order to keep a legitimate businessman from getting a reasonable use out of his space.

If you don't like the noise coming from your new neighbors, I'm sure there's a cashout option that puts you on the Riviera by June. Enjoy.

I'm glad you think hurting

By Heather
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 3:57am

I'm glad you think hurting Michael Norton's business interests and the business interests of every other shop on Broadway that is not a substandard coffee shop is somehow a noble cause, because people who like different coffee than chain dunkin' donuts coffee somehow don't belong in YOUR (exclusively your) neighborhood. Every business on Broadway with the exception of a few newcomers (like the outsiders who opened Paramount) feel like some museum of off brand foods and drinks.

Thank God for government!

By Bob Leponge
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 1:34pm

Otherwise, what possible mechanism would there be to determine whether or not the neighborhood needs and can support another coffee shop?

Yes!

By bosguy22
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 1:42pm

Marty saved us from ourselves again. Long live our fearless leader.

Vote

By anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 2:41pm

All the newbies have to get off their lazy, privileged asses and register to vote. No politician is going to take anything you do or say seriously as long as you can't vote. Voting is unlike other things you pay someone else to do for you like taking care of your kids, walking your dogs, shoveling your sidewalk and delivering your groceries.

Thanks for the civics lesson

By bosguy22
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 2:51pm

How exactly could voting have done anything in this situation? You're positive all those anti-starbucks people were active voters?

Absolutely

By anon
Mon, 05/09/2016 - 12:30am

Same ones whining, criticizing and complaining on social media, but God forbid they actually get involved and attend a community meeting to voice their concerns! They say there are more important issues. Really? What are you doing about them?!

How is this legal? Can the

By cden4
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 2:19pm

How is this legal? Can the property owner sue the city?

This is how zoning boards

By different anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 4:40pm

This is how zoning boards work all over this region. They have to decide when to grant residential exceptions or approve certain businesses. It's nothing unusual, and its how many local towns have retained their character.

I've never been to a Starbucks

By GoSoxGo
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 3:43pm

but I think this is an asinine decision by the licensing board.

The liquor license should have been approved in the first place. The arbitrary liquor license laws make it next to impossible to get new locally-owned restaurants in the city, unless you want to be forced to locate it where it may not match your business plan.

Why on earth would you turn down a food license for any coffee shop? Is it zoned for a commercial business such as a coffee shop? If so, approve it!

Too many coffee shops? The board should have no say in the matter. That's for the market to decide.

The neighborhood doesn't want it? The people who show up at licensing board meetings are usually there to oppose something. 65 people opposed it? What about the other 30,000 people in the neighborhood who wanted it or don't care one way or another, but had better things to do than attend a licensing board meeting? If it weren't for Adam, how would we know about it until after the fact?

Too many Starbucks? The Seaport and Broadway Station are nowhere near City Point. Definitely not walking distance. Hop on the #9? Hop on the #7? Good luck finding a seat. There are no buses that even go to the Seaport besides the #7, which only runs down Summer Street.

Oh, they want people to get in a car and drive to the nearest Starbucks and double-park there. Ah, I get it.

And Mayor Walsh lobbied against the Starbucks? Further proof that he is completely out of touch. One term, indeed.

Idiots.

"Too many coffee shops? The

By different anon
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 6:00pm

"Too many coffee shops? The board should have no say in the matter. That's for the market to decide."

This is nothing new. Most cities have boards to try to make sure each neighborhood has a reasonably decent mix of businesses.

Why not Andrew?

By TommyJeff
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 3:36pm

Sure its rough around the edges but T and highway access are leaps and bounds above the rest of Southie.

It aint gonna be shitty forever.

Don't worry

By GoSoxGo
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 10:26pm

That's coming soon. Maybe even a supermarket (would love to see Trader Joe's). Starbucks? We'll see.

http://www.universalhub.com/2015/developer-files-p...

Couldn't be happier

By SouthieLocal
Thu, 05/05/2016 - 7:16pm

The last thing i want to do after sitting in traffic coming up L st from the tunnel (surrounded by suburanites cutting thru mind you) is to dodge even more swinging double parked car doors at the biggest intersection in City Point.

Starbucks would of been great

By Jay
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 12:07am

Starbucks would of been great there. Dunkin Donuts got approval to open on L Street and there are many locations in Southie. At least Starbucks is a place you can meet a friend for coffee and have a conversation.
Maybe a Peets Coffee or Cafe Nero will be interested in the space.

Oh the

By bulgingbuick
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 8:24am

humanity.

Actual study done?

By Kaz
Fri, 05/06/2016 - 10:30am

If none of the competitors were able to present a study of what another coffee shop would have done to their business, then why did anything they had to say get noted with any credence?

I run Business A, a dry cleaners. I am the only dry cleaner in 1 mile. Another dry cleaner wants to open on the next block. I go complain about how it's going to "detract from my business". Well, no shit. I'm the only dry cleaners within a mile. Of course it's going to "detract from my business". And maybe they have economies of scale because they send the dry cleaning out to a central facility because they're a regional/national chain with resources. So, they can charge less than me. That might even put me out of business. But these are the risks of doing business! Using the licensing laws as protectionism is nanny state bullshit.

So now, let's say there are Businesses A through G, all dry cleaners. Business H arrives. Now, 7 businesses and their loyal patrons go shout about how Business H would be "one too many dry cleaners" in our neighborhood. It'll pull from all their businesses. The most fragile of which might die because they've been barely holding on among 7 and won't survive being 1 of 8 (even though that's not actually how market is directly shared among competing businesses).

Then you could do the study. You could ask if the A-G neighborhood is at "peak dry cleaners". Is that part of Southie at "peak coffee"? I doubt it. I bet people get Starbucks at the other end of their commute, or leave the neighborhood to sit at a Starbucks or other cafe, or go without, or just go home and brew some coffee with Starbucks beans they bought while they were out, and so on. But if you're company A-G, then why would you say anything other than "they're going to make me go out of business; you have to stop them from opening!" if given the choice?

PS - I don't want to hear one name from that meeting ever come up in the context of "where are my kids going to get a summer job?" or anything else. Because right now, you have a vacant store front. Starbucks was bringing jobs to fill that storefront and you told them to shove off.