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Could be 2027 now before we get all our new subway cars
By adamg on Thu, 01/26/2023 - 5:24pm
The Globe reports the T hasn't gotten a single new subway car in seven months now. CommonWealth reports on some of the numbers - and says the Chinese company the T hired wants it to pay for the added costs of Trump-era tariffs on Chinese goods, which the T could balance by implementing the $500-a-day penalties the contract allows for late deliveries.
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Comments
But, But, But
ChArLiE BaKeR!!!!111!!!!1!!!!!
Should always be remembered for this
This man helped destroy the functionality of a public transit system at every level from procurement to service. This should tar his legacy for the rest of his life.
Summery of the Commonwealth Mag Article
As of a 2019 law the feds won't give transit operators money to buy Chinese trains so CRRC has no incentive to stick around since they can't win future contracts at any price. Even if they finish the MBTA order they won't be around to provide service and parts into the future.
CRRC is loosing money on each train (reportedly) so don't be surprised if they pull a Mitt Romney and ditch the state before their contract is up.
And those contracts CRRC got from other cities? They aren't going to be built at the Springfield plant regardless. Unless something drastic changes, that plant will close, making it all the more foolish to insist the cars be built in MA. (Thanks Patrick! Did you insist the drapes be locally made too?)
MBTA = Massachusetts Botched the Train Acquisition.
The LA Metro and Philadelphia
The LA Metro and Philadelphia cars are being assembled at Springfield, The Chicago cars are being assembled at another CRRC plant in Illinois
From the same article
Of course, the reporter or Gonneville (MBTA) could be mistaken.
The LA and Philly orders are
The LA and Philly orders are small (64 and 45 cars) and are supposed to built alongside the large (404 car) MBTA order, and be completed before the MBTA order is finished. So both statements are true, the MBTA order is not the only one for the plant and they have no other orders on the books when the MBTA order is done. Gonneville mentions this in his presentation to the board which can be rewatched on the MBTA meetings page.
curious
When LA and Philly will see their orders delivered?
At this point
perhaps the T should cancel and re-bid the RL order and focus on getting the OL trains from CRRC. This would be a very expensive lesson learned.
MBTA will be dismantled by
MBTA will be dismantled by then. Why can't we have the same transit system as Washington DC? I couldn't believe how impressed I was with their system. Can MIT help? Or is MBTA just some corrupt secret powerful club that won't let anyone in?
You want the WAMTA?
You may want to do a bit of research on then. They make the T look functional.
They failed about 40 years ahead of the T
The only reason they were ever great to begin with was the fact the system was built in the mid 20th century. They basically did nothing and watched a beautiful product turn to shit over 50 years.
Probably just going on
Probably just going on outdated information. Metro used to be very impressive, but they've been going downhill for decades.
Uh...
Do you mean WMATA?
That's what I get
For trying to do it off the top of my head.
Regardless, they do make the T, even in it's current state, look good. Here's a quote from a very recent Washington Post article:
The 7000 series were built by Kawasaki 7ish years ago. Now if only the MBTA would get the 1200s back in service.
The January 14th Globe
The January 14th Globe article was jaw dropping; the conditions at the Springfield factory and quality control are abysmal. The scary part is that between the missing/defective parts and poor assembly, the new cars may perform worse than the old ones for decades to come.
It seems like a lot of this was planned with good intentions (lowest bid, bringing local jobs to a struggling city etc.) but it's clearly not working out.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/01/14/metro/workers-building-new-orange...
yep
Could be 2027 now before we get all our new subway cars,
And the whole situation is a pain in the arse.
How's that transit oriented development going?
The T gets worse and worse. Stations falling apart. Trains falling apart. New trains falling apart. And now no new trains until 2027, or whatever the real date will be.
And yet it's full speed ahead with "transit oriented development", including getting rid of parking requirements for new developments.
We as a city and region continue to pretend that people don't need cars.
We continue to plan and build new buildings next to public transit with no planning for cars.
It's not working. Our public transportation is not reliable, is not 24/7, and in and increasing number of incidents, is not safe.
There's another train immediately behind this one.
Watch the doors.
Unless the contract says the
Unless the contract says the T is responsible for new tariffs, why should the $500/day penalty balance anything?
Everything is a negotiation
True, without a contractual clause covering cost escalation, the buyer shouldn't be asked to cover the difference. But we are looking at a question of how to get manufacturing restarted with a rather difficult supplier. Both sides need to negotiate with humility and find a solution that can look like a win to respective interest groups. CRRC can look good in Beijing if they get Massachusetts to pay the tariff. The MBTA can look good if it leverages the fines to get things back on track. Ultimately, we need a solution that brings new trains to Boston. If we have to pretend to penalize them while they pretend to charge us extra in order for that to happen, I'm fine with that.