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Five shot, four dead in Mattapan, including a toddler

Woolson Street turned into a grisly scene around 1 a.m.; one of the victims is a toddler, Channel 5 reports. Police are looking for a silver or gray Ford Explorer. Channel 7 reports the adults were all shot in the head.

Two weeks ago, a man was shot in the shoulder around the corner; three men are sought.

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Comments

Where are all the shooters coming from?

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another murder on Astoria St earlier this month, which is a couple of blocks away from last night's slaughter.

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Why was a toddler out on the street after midnight?

Such a shame.

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Toddlers don't always have to be anyplace at any given time. If the family stays up late, sometimes the little ones do too.

My BIL used to work swing shift when his kids were little and everybody would be up when he got home at 12:30am or so, then sleep late. This also saved a lot of 6am toddler and household noise when he was trying to sleep.

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It's probably not recommended to keep very young children up past midnight regularly just so a parent can sleep late. Never heard anyone justify that one before!

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Why does it matter how late a kid stays up so long as they get enough sleep? Why does it matter what hours they are awake so long as they get enough sleep? Where is it written that toddlers must sleep between hour x and hour y?

Scientific citations are welcome here. Bring it on. People in places with 24 hour days and nights in season are welcome to laugh at any/all of this, as are those of us who have dared to cross time zones with small kids!

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It probably doesn't matter much, but there is that whole sleep science built around Circadian Rhythms. I'm not going to research it, since I didn't level the criticism, but I do believe there is some validity to the theory.

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Sure, a 2-year old could sleep from 4 AM to 2 PM if that's what you want. I hope you don't plan on finding too many 4 PM - 12 AM "day"cares if you have to work though. I also hope you know a bunch of other parents who are doing the same, because otherwise nobody's going to be around for your kid to be social with at 8 PM since all of their kids are getting ready for bed.

Then, consider how well that is going to work out in 3 years when the kid is used to the 4A-2P sleep schedule and kindergarten or 1st grade wants him ready to go at 8 AM. If you want to have to try and make a 4 or 5 year old change the sleep schedule you've ingrained in them since the age of 2, be my guest. Otherwise, I hope you don't want a social kid, don't ever need a daycare/sitter, and plan on homeschooling your child...just to have it so it's "normal" for him to be up at midnight.

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Considering my nephew is a medic in the Coast Guard working toward his RN, and my niece is a college-educated professional, I suspect that these things can work out just fine.

People change time zones and it only takes a few days to shift. I've traveled as many as six at a jump since mine were babies. You really don't know much about these things, now do ya Kaz. Geesh.

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Swirly, you, and your extended family and everyone you've ever known, are the exception to the rule that nobody's discussing.

You're a walking anecdotal fallacy. Come to think of it, the fact that I have *no* personal experience with the topic (and you seemingly have a personal experience with every topic) may actually make me more of an impartial conversationalist on the matter. Ever thought of that?

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I asked for scientific confirmation of the theory that it mattered when a kid sleeps - not how much, but when.

I got little or nothing. Oh, but I did get some "folkfact" or "folktale" about "years of conditioning a kid to sleep" blah blah. That's science, right? Um no.

In the mean time, I know from years of actual caring for and travelling with kids and dealing with my own jet lag that schedules are changeable, and age doesn't matter so much. Even after some clueless school administrators decide to move the start of school up eight days (and announced it only in mid July), leaving me only two days to get my kids off European time, my kids managed to cope just fine by going to sleep progressively later.

If you have some evidence to the contrary, I'm sure the sleep researchers that I know would love to have it. Otherwise, it is safe to assume based on the body of evidence on jet lag and shift changes that children, like other humans, will not fail out of school because their schedules changed once or twice in their lifetimes. Sleep deprivation will cause far more problems than when kids sleep.

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but there are studies out on the fatigue levels of pilots due to time zone body clock stuff.

But comeon, the point here is about a toddler out on the street at 1am, not his sleeping patterns. Either way it sounds like the family was woken up and just took the kid out to see what was going on.

But Swirlly there are lots of studies regarding sleep and internal body clocks. They tend not to do scientific studies on toddlers that might harm them, so you might not have any studies to back it up. I mean, do we know if one small alchoholic drink a day is beneficial to toddlers? Just a sip?

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Jesus Christ, would you people shut the fuck up! No one has ever won an argument with the Swirly-One in the same way that no one wins an argument with the Taliban. And who gives a rat's ass if a kid was out at two in the morning...he was not dealing crack. And if his guardians were dealing crack then it's perfectly acceptable to shoot that kid in the head? Can we have a bit of perspective here?

A toddler and a number of other people were just gunned down in the street as part of a gradual ramping up of inner city violence during the course of this year. What are the police doing? What are groups like the Ten Point Coalition doing? What are law enforcement and social service agencies doing on the whole drug-side of the equation which seems to be fueling at least some of this violence? Does any of it show any sign whatsoever of working? If you want to argue over those things, fine. A tit for tat over the proper management of a child's circadian rhythms in the face of the murder of a child is tremendously stupid.

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amen...

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Can you not see that in every post, you appear to be more and more pompous? The fact is, a three year old should not be up and about at 3AM. Staying up all night and sleeping all day is somewhat anti-social behaviour, despite what your sleep therapist friends say. I know purport to be smarter than everyone else, but come on...

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I rather love how the time is getting progressively later...first 1AM, when it actually happened, then someone cited 2AM, and now it's 3AM...soon we'll be into a normal time of day anyway.

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I cant even believe these are the comments that come under such a horrible headline. How could you even talk about sleep at a time like this? Its sickening. You guys are all arguing over something that is so completely irrelevant. Read a little more and use some common sense and have some decency for the people who know this family and their loved ones. Spend some time in these neighborhoods and tell me if when their toddler goes to bed is of importance to anyone right now. I work in these places during the day and then get to go home at night, but I feel for the innocent people who get brought into some BS conversation like this being judgmental about a mother who keeps her kids up late, or lets them stay up late.

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Because when kids start school they need to be in the habit of going to bed early and getting up early if you want them to be alert and productive during there school day. It's also a social norm...thats when the kid is going to get to socialize with others...learn healthy sleep patterns, etc. It's also probably less of a big deal to have a toddler up at that hour in a safe neighborhood but this is frikkin Murder-pan we're talking about! There were recent crimes/murder in that very neighborhood recently..that would be enough to keep my kids in the house at least. Swirly...question...Do you have children?

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also yesterday, sources told the Herald that within the past two weeks, Boston police found little Amani Smith wandering alone on Blue Hill Avenue.

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Neighbor Ralph Myrthil said he came out of his house after hearing the shots and saw two people lying in the street naked, as if they had been pulled out of their beds before they were shot.

"I saw the people laying on the floor with no clothes," he said.

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According to one source I read, at least two of the victims were
naked on the street. Suggests they may have had an unexpected guest
(even if the guest was known to them).

Murderers are usually not big on protocol last I heard.

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I'm sure after this heinous crime parents will think twice before taking their kids out of the house in the middle of the night, especially in rough neighborhoods. If the family was targeted, maybe it wouldn't have mattered where they were. These killers are heartless. Not sure how they sleep at night.

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Is it really that weird to walk around with a baby who's fussy/sick/won't sleep, and to maybe step out on the porch or take a walk around the yard?

Also, some people might be on Latin American or Mediterranean or African or other schedules where people wake up around 10 or 11am, take a nap around 5 or 6pm, eat dinner at 9 or 10pm, go to bed at 2am.

People don't deserve to get shot just because they run their household differently from how you do.

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You're reading too much into the above comment... no one is blaming the victim. And, why are you bringing race into the equation? A child was shot! Please don't project your unrelated agendas into the discussion of a horrific crime against a child.

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eeka just said that some cultures function on different schedules. You're the one who brought race into it.

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Because They were sleeping before the mother took him outside with the rest of them. Didn't you read that they were all in the house before they were taken outside. Don't start with your speculations. Goes to the Boston Herald, it will tell you what happened.

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Read carefully, he wasnt out late, and even if they had him out late they could have been coming from somewhere....THE POINT IS, a baby life was taken and he had much to live for and some COWARD decided his fate

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wait a few days , then it will be forgotten. This is Boston after all.

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It's not forgotten. It just reinforces an existing belief. Most people have come to think of Mattapan, Dorchester, Roxbury, etc. as combat zones for people who think they're warlords in some third-world cesspool.

The locals there might say "Oh, Mattapan is a diverse place, with some great people in it," but anyone who follows the news can't help but think "Murderpan".

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They will say that those areas are bad news because they are. They have the highest crime rates for a reason. The people living with that I am sure given the option and ability to move to a better community would do so. No one wants to see these things happen anywhere but because they happen so often in these `bad areas` I think it is losing its surprise factor. This isn't something new and I would be curious to hear people suggestions for how to handle rough communities like these. I think the sad part is that people think as long as its contained in those areas its acceptable.. my reasoning for this is because no one seems to be doing anything about it.

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Is it any wonder that no one likes you?

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Feign? How blackhearted do you have to be not to be disturbed by a toddler dragged out of his bed and slaughtered in the middle of the road? Translating that feeling of horror and helplessness into effective action is another matter but why question someone's capacity to feel outrage? Personally I'm more curious about the usual comment crowd on the Herald site who make it into political snark.

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The Dorchester Reporter says that a man was shot on Woolson Street a month ago at 7 o'clock in the morning. He survived and the cops found him the first-floor hallway of 42 Woolson- the house next door to today's crime scene. Related?
http://www.dotnews.com/

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I have a solution to all the city's problems. Let's just put SwirlyGirl in charge of everything....it only makes sense since she know's everything about everything and is always right. You are truly amusing (in a pathetic laughable sort of way) and you seriously spend way too much of your day on Universal Hub spouting off on your little soapbox. get a life! FYI..know-it-alls are f***ing annoying! Do you have a job or something?...what is it you do "Oh wordly wise one" ?

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Honestly she seems to just hover around here looking for something to argue about.

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Yes. Idiot whines about kids being out late so that's why they were shot. Second idiot calls him out on it. Others argue.

So blame the second idiot. Yes. That's it. The one with the female name and kids. She don't know shit.

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Get over yourself... the people have spoken!

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Not asking for all of the reasons you're smarter than me-- I'm sure there are plenty, but I have a life to get back to-- so just the top 10 or 20 would be fine.

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OK, it's one thing to disagree with people, but
1) there's no need for personal attacks and
2) before you start running your mouth, at least join the community and get to know people a little, or else you look like a nosy and clueless idiot, since Swirly has posted several times about whether she has children and what kind of work she does

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you know everything about Swirly Girl because you obviously spend way too much time lurking here as well. I surely don't come here as much as you and really don't care to "sign up" or to "get to know you". I don't give a crap who you are...just because you're "signed on" doesn't mean you're any less anonomous...what I do know is that when I do come on here it seems for every argument/discussion SwirlyGirl is on her soapbox, seemingly has the answer to every issue, she's always right in her mind and seems like a f***ing know-it-all...I don't need to get to know her to see that she annoys the shit out of alot of people here who are in fact "officially signed on". Should I just make up some lame official screen name (still anonomous BTW) to "prove" to you that I'm not an anonomous coward. OK Eeka...whats your real name...first and last...where do you live and whats your address...until you put that info up you too are an anonomous hiding under a screen name! is Eeka even your real name or did you make that up?

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...we'd at least know which particular unpleasant, usually trollish (current) anon was speaking.

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and that's (a short form of) her real name. I've met her and so have many other participants here.

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It is true that Swirly can annoy people by acting like a know-it-all. She annoys me sometimes (though I probably annoy her more). Her claimed expert competencies could make her Dos Equis Beer's new spokeswoman. And I think she could write a book about why her lifestyle choices are better than yours. However, there is usually a very good argument under the attitude. There's a thinking person back there, not just somebody repeating specious commonplaces or randomly insulting people.

I think you should keep posting as Anti-Swirl, or perhaps Counter Clockwise. That lets us know you consider yourself to live in her shadow. It's appropriate. Swirly may be an ass sometimes, but you're just a pimple on that ass.

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We all agree that there shouldn't be personal attacks. So, Swirrly, eeka, Kaz-- lay off the personal attacks, and don't piss and moan when people defend themselves.

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At least she has a verified account, so all her comments are trackable, unlike the anons attacking her.

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Let's see.

We have Yep from Kaz.
We have Hmm also from Kaz.
We have Yeah and again from Kaz.
We have -69 from swirlygrrl not logged in (not verified).
We have Um from eeka.
We have Well from Molly.
We have no but from pilgrimm

I'm sure I've missed some, but you get the idea.

The masterful titles you geniuses are laboring long and hard over show up in the Recent Comments listing on the front page of Universalhub.

And it makes the community of commenters look like a bunch of pointers and grunters. Inarticulate grunting cave men.

Is it really too much to ask for, let's say, a subject and a verb? And, perhaps an object, if you are feeling especially generous?

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I hereby resolve to use more articulate subject lines.

Does it matter whether they relate to the post?

;o)

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eeka, think of them as little advertisements for your bon mots, your well crafted textboxes, your eloquent electronic missives to the community at-large.

Neat-o title?

More readers to appreciate your great wisdom.

—Jonas Prang

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In the box with a "search" button next to it. Works the same, and seems to me that someone who makes up a name for themselves, whatever it is, has passed the "real" test as far as this place is concerned: No matter how much misplaced pride certain people take in having logons here, neither swirrly nor eeka nor kaz posts anything here that would give away their actual identity... unlike plenty of other people. So who's being an an "anon coward" now?

Ever occur to you that someone who is annoyed at someone else-- especially someone like Swirrly who seems to be jump into ever. fucking. thread.-- might not want to have a logon so that they wouldn't have to deal with personal attacks? Hmm? No, probably not.

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It's very very easy to figure out my real name and my contact info if you click around a bit on here. I don't hide anything.

Many of us regulars on here have met each other. Not in any way to imply that other voices aren't welcome here -- which they absolutely are, and I'll kick anyone's ass who implies otherwise -- but just pointing out that most of us are real people who have standards.

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which will end at B-3 demanding more police patrols...

Yeah, that's exactly what is needed.

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That toddler may have been removed from the house he or she was sleeping in. This was a hit.

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It's kind of bizarre that half the thread is about proper sleeping hours for toddlers. And that "feigned liberal outrage" enters into it at all--did I miss something? Does the Nobama crowd NOT get outraed by this kind of thing--they just yawn and go back to their Word Search

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All yall arguing about the time kids go to sleep need to shut... the FUCK... UP!

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ever happens after midnight.

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it is astounding to me that so many people chose to comment on the good sleeping habits of toddlers, rather than the fact that this toddler was shot in his mother's arms.
Are we all so immune to the daily brutality that the fact that the toddler was awake at 1 am was the part that jumped out at everyone? That the big problem here was that the toddler was not asleep?That folks went and cited research about toddlers, and sleeping patterns, and what works better when they go to school?
This toddler isn't going to school. This toddler died a brutal, senseless death. This young life deserves some respect,. Regardless of what circumstances brought this baby onto the street at 1 am, some heartless bastard SHOT HIM DEAD.
A moment of silence, a prayer for his soul, a solemn vow to help bring his killer to justice, a prayer of thinks that you don't have to go to bed and worry about your toddler getting shot on the street in the middle of the night...those are all appropriate responses.
Step back for a second, and figure out why anyone chose to comment on bedtime.
I have no answer, but it's frightening.

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But interesting sociologically at the same time, since the way some people are coping with hearing about this is to pull an us-and-them routine, saying effectively "oh, that stuff happens to the kind of people whose toddler is outside at midnight, not my kind of people whose children are never outside at midnight for any reason."

It's a defense mechanism. We can make ourselves feel safer if we convince ourselves that this happened because of an action, one we don't personally take, and/or we convince ourselves that the people who it happened to are nothing whatsoever like us, so this couldn't happen to us.

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Actually, the reason we are all seemingly immune to violence is that we have seen almost nothing EXCEPT for violence EVERY SINGLE DAY on the news for the past ten years....

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That is an obvious mechanism, and it might be in play here for anyone who lives in a part of Mattapan/Dorchester/Roxbury where poor blacks shoot other poor blacks, but I don't think people living elsewhere feel at all threatened by the violence. It's already something that happens to someone else.

Some shock, anger, or frustration in this particular case, sure. But not so much of that either, because we've been desensitized by hearing about kids getting shot up all the time for years.

I think the tangential comments you're seeing is just the usual random Internet chatter about random topics that make us feel clever. Because the main topic is NOT interesting, because nobody can think of anything clever to say about it, or because what they can think about is not socially acceptable to say.

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Four people are dead and all you want to comment on is the kid being awake at 1am?

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I hope they're able to solve it.

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