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Is this worth getting upset over?
By adamg on Sun, 07/27/2008 - 5:29pm
So the Roxbury Crossing T stop now has a stylized mural-like thing of the nearby mosque and some people are upset:
As the photographer points out, the Boston public transportation system does not sport crosses, stars of David, or other religious insignia. How did this exception come about? One hopes that Bostonians are not so beat down by ISB litigiousness that they have lost all curiosity about that institution's activities.
Looks like Boston's not an Irish town anymore. This reminds of gang colors and insignia posted all over American buildings, roadways, etc., used as "turf markers."
Oy. I have no love for the the Jew-hating First Amendment deniers at the Islamic Society of Boston, but really, turf marking? Should criminals get outraged that Forest Hills station has a stylized iconish sign pointing to the nearby West Roxbury District Court?
Free tagging:
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Comments
Daniel Pipes....ugh
Daniel Pipes....ugh
I'm normally a fervent
I'm normally a fervent advocate of the separation of church and state, but this is a landmark building in the community. It's purpose is almost irrelevant in this context. Boston also has a long history of promoting notable churches with historic importance. I don't see how this is any different.
damn graffiti on the T station
why is the T letting the stations get littered with these crappy murals? they look cheap, are poorly executed, and make the neighborhood look even worse than it already does. who cares about what it depicts -- why is the station being soiled with bad murals?
And how long have you lived
And how long have you lived in Roxbury?
I agree, that mural is
I agree, that mural is really just poorly done. I realize thats the "style" and thats what the artist "meant" to do but I feel like we would have been better served by having a 5 year old paint it instead. The real crime here is that the Mosque is being defamed by this abbysmal piece of "art", and I say that regardless of their religious beliefs or social standing.
Um...y'all realize that the
Um...y'all realize that the murals aren't finished yet, right?
Well aware... Its going to
Well aware... Its going to be one of those cartoony ones that we see all over "urban" areas. I dont know what it is about poor and urban areas that make people want to put cartoonized and stylized versions of local landscapes all over the place. Yeah theres a Mosque back there, I can see it, I dont need a cartoon version of it in front of my face as Im exiting the T.
Muralization
Oh, I don't know; it's better than the blank grey/random graffiti, and it's keeping high school kids occupied during the summer; I can't really complain too much.
MURALS ARE TERRORISM
A painting of a nearby building! How dare muralists acknowledge the shape of the skyline! OH NO!
Daniel Pipes is a nutbag. I'm not saying the ISB is any good. But who the hell gets outraged that a mural indicates the actual shape of the skyline?
Light Bright!!
Maybe it could have been created with a mooninite-type fashion, with glowing LEDs, and then the city could have closed down the Rox-Crossing station. Because THAT kind of mural would be terrorism, obviously.
I now need to plant my tongue firmly within my cheek.
equality
Let's paint some stuff that points to the nearest church, synagogue, Shinto shrine, Buddhist temple, and Wiccan gathering spot.
Mission Church could ask for equal billing, perhaps
as that Catholic church is also quite a landmark building near Roxbury Crossing.
We should care whether
We should care whether criminals get outraged? A remarkably poor analogy, that - someone needs a nap.
There's a precedent.
There are photographs of Trinity Church in the Copley Square station.
Not to mention ...
that you could probably base a treasure hunt around pictures of the Old North Church in public areas of the city.
Clean up the Freedom Trail next
I assume that the people who object to that picture are also working to remove Old North Church, King's Chapel, and any other churches from the Freedom Trail.
I also assume that if that
I also assume that if that mural were of the nearby First Church of Roxbury that the same complaints would be being issued, right?
I'm going to have to look and see what the rest of the murals are; I haven't paid that much attention since they're not finished yet. I wouldn't be surprised if a church steeple or dome were somewhere.
As for why they have to put up "bad murals", I'd rather see those than the graffiti tags that were there before.
Pipes Should Get The Shaft
Well of course they'd complain about First Church in Roxbury...that's a Unitarian church, and god knows how iffy those Unitarians are on the question of religious propriety.
I love how willing Daniel Pipes is to take the word of the photographers that the symbols of other religions aren't represented in the public transit system. As other posters have noted, there many religious institutions represented.
Pipes is a perfect example of the conservative who has to shout wolf about increasingly inane things in order to have his voice heard and to keep the money and attention flowing in his direction.
but of course
Of course comments on Mr. Pipes's blog are moderated. We'll see if mine, in which I point out that other religious institutions are depicted and directed to on T property, makes it through.
Richard and Daniel: Like father, like son
I find it hard to choose which one is more detestable.
like to know more about the mural
This is a bit tricky. Maybe it's just a mural, big deal, who cares? (Besides the fact that it looks amateurish so far.) But I'd like to know how this mural came to be. Did the MBTA hold some sort of design competition? Was there any public involvement for a mural on the outside of a T station? Is this "payment in public services" by the Islamic Society of Boston for their sweetheart real estate deal? Who's paying for it?
I don't think it's crazy to characterize it as "turf marking." The ISB and the Muslim American Society have been actively "staking their turf" in other ways. They've appointed themselves as being THE representative of all Muslims in Massachusetts, despite the fact that ISB/MAS membership numbers in the hundreds. They're also actively taking over other Islamic centers and organizations, most recently Al Huda in Revere. There's a major battle going on at the Islamic Center of New England in Sharon, where long-time members are fighting back against ISB control of their Board of Directors. So, yeah, this group is trying to dominate other Muslim groups, as well as target Black Americans for conversion.
Maybe it's just a mural. Maybe it's something more.
Mosquerade
Ooh, that's a pretty building. I think I'm going to convert.
I don't think so. If that were the case, I'd have felt compelled to join the Mission Hill Cathedral long ago.
Or left offerings under the arch in Rowes Wharf out of some misguided confusion of architecture and religion.
How is it different ...
Than all the signs on public ways directing you to the nearest churches or synagogues? As a non-Christian, should I be offended at the use of public property to display one of those red-and-blue Episcopal cross things (for that matter, as a non-Hasid, should I be offended at the largeish sign on the West Roxbury Parkway directing me to the nearest Lubavitch synagogue?).
As I said, I'm no fan of the ISB. The more I think about it, the more this seems really trivial compared to some of the shenanigans they've been involved in (from the sweet land deal in Roxbury to the attacks on the First Amendment). We don't even know yet if the mosque was actually involved in the pillar thing (or do we?) If I were in charge of painting muralettes depicting things right around that T station, I'd include the mosque because it's right there and it's a prominent landmark.
What's a non-christian?
What's a non-christian?
Oh, Jesus
So a Jew, a Moslem and a Hindu walk into a bar ...
You said your a smart ass
You already said your a smart ass and I know you're not all three... a poly-sumpinorother...
Hmm, some of my best friends are muslims.
And about your joke, everyone knowns moslems don't drink and Jewish mothers don't teach their sons how to.
Ah ...
But some Jews had grandfathers who owned bars (granted, before I was born, but old habits die hard).
But anyway, the correct conclusion of "A Jew, a Muslim and a Hindu walk into a bar" is:
"and go OW!"
Jews and Booze
Most of the organized crime activity involved in the "importation" of alcohol across the great lakes in Detroit in the 1920s was ethnic Jewish.
When prohibition ended, they reinvested their capital in Las Vegas.
Everyone knows?
I've had beers with Muslims. You don't know what you're talking about. Muslims don't drink kinda like Christians go to church every Sunday, i.e. some do, some don't.
It was a joke gar
th, and Jewish mothers don't teach their sons how to etc, get it? Never had a drink with Jew, eh?
Almost
I've never had a drink with a Jew and his mother, so I decided to refrain from commenting on that.
If it's a joke, you tell jokes poorly.
You might like this post Gar
th.
I am unlikely to click on any link you post
Go away, creep.
Watch your
temper Garth. You're getting off topic and flaming. You know that's against the rules at UH.
Against the rules
No topic here but the fact you're the same damn anonymous creep who's been harassing me around this site for months. Why don't you go away? Your mother needs you for something.
I have a muslim friend who
I have a muslim friend who grew up in a moderate muslim household that still abidded by the Islamic laws when they could (His mother worked, and NEVER wore anything on her head and was the boss of the house ect, but they would follow the dietary rules and there was no drinking in the house.) He went off on his own a bit and would drink and do other things like that, but because of his upbringing to this day he still gets a huge kick out of drinking even a single glass of beer knowing his parents would be upset lol. Hamburgers and other foods just seem so much more delicious to him. Sometimes I envy that because its like being a kid over and over again doing things you shouldnt be doing , and of course things are so much better when they are "taboo". I cant imagine, as a lapsed Catholic American (whose people have broken all the rules for 2 genrations anyway) what I would have to do to get that same feeling right now lol.
Muslims Vs. Catholics: FIGHT!
"Maybe it's just a mural. Maybe it's something more."
All right then, if the painting of the mosque means that the Muslims are taking over, how do you explain the painting of the basilica on the other side of the post?
Seriously folks, not a single person has gone to look at it for yourselves, have you? The painting of the mosque is done so that a person looking at it will see the mosque in the background. On the other side, there's a painting of the Mission Church so that a person on that side will see the church in the background.
I'm heading over to Mr. Pipes's site next, but sometimes a distinctive building is just a distinctive building.
Color me surprised by Daniel Pipes...
Only how I'm not. I suppose it's possible that my comments pointing out that there IS a mural of the Mission Church in the same location, which has a cross and everything, simply haven't been approved yet, but an anti-Muslim comment made after mine has been, so I'm suspicious.
Thank you to Miss Kelly, however, who is broad-minded enough to have revised her own post on the issue. I do appreciate that.