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All other things being equal, Boston's pretty unequal, study says

WBUR reports on a study that found Boston is the third most unequal city in the country in terms of income:

In 2013, the richest Boston households - those at the 95th percentile - took home $239,837 in income, while those at the 20th percentile made just $15,952.

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Why should I care how my paycheck compares with someone else's paycheck? Am I supposed to be envious? Is it abnormal if I don't gnash my teeth and rend my garments because someone (lots of someones, apparently) get more than me?

I've never understood this preoccupation with what the other guy has.

(And, lest anyone wonder, there are shitloads of guys with more than me. My compensation last year, taken on its own, would put me well down in that 20th percentile. I am blessed to have MY WIFE picking up the slack as I work my way up in a field new to me; I'd suppose we're somewhere near the middle of the pack as a 'household'.)

EDIT: Not directed at you, Adam. Just wondering why???

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

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This is aggregate statistics. Similar to when public health experts care about flu outbreaks and who is suffering and who isn't (so they can make things better for everyone and plan for resources to respond) rather than caring specifically whether Suldog has the flu and whether his symptoms are worse than Swirlygrrl's.

The inequities are important because they indicate how our economy is doing, and where interventions might be aimed to ensure that people have minimal needs met, people can get to work, etc.

London and NYC are now getting so choked with foreign real estate investment driving up prices for units that are used scarcely at all, that hardly anyone who actually works there can afford to live there anymore. That is also an issue that Boston needs to watch out for.

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"London and NYC are now getting so choked with foreign real estate investment driving up prices for units that are used scarcely at all, that hardly anyone who actually works there can afford to live there anymore. That is also an issue that Boston needs to watch out for."

Boston Magazine had a write-up about this very topic a few months back:
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/09/30/chinese-real-estat...

I understand the whole free market and all. I also prefer seeing people buy property here who intend on staying here and contributing to the success of our city.

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The inequities are important because they indicate how our economy is doing, and where interventions might be aimed to ensure that people have minimal needs met, people can get to work, etc.

Interventions? Such as...?

I'm all for folks at the bottom getting more. Why not? I'd be one hell of a poor Christian if I wasn't in favor of more happiness. But why should I care what the guy at the top is making in comparison? That's just envy.

While there may be a problem with the lower wage, the disparity is not something I care about at all.

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

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It isn't about you. Or him. Or me.

It is about analyzing data on the economy, for purposes of understanding trends. Understanding trends enables planning and intervention - and that intervention may be in the form of zoning, or public transit, or tax policy, health care policy, etc.

Understanding the potential impacts of policy decisions is critically important for making good public policy decisions about things like, oh, massive relocation of jobs and workplaces because of the Olympics.

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Honestly, the Olympics are objectively a stupid idea, independent of Boston's GINI coefficient.

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I concur with what Jim is saying, or maybe not, as I too find many of today's meme's of 1%'ers nothing but envy.
I don't care what other people make. I don't care what the owner of my company makes, nor others around me.
I don't care that I can't afford shopping on Newbury Street although it seems many can.

The chanting of slogans vilifying the evil rich lost me even more during the Occupy mess. It was underachievers jealous of high achievers. When they interviewed one of the head protesters at that mess admit that yes, he was offered a job but it was not good enough for him, that was it in a nutshell.

Wage inequality is real, but sloganizing it loses me. I see it used more as a political tool used to divide more for the purpose of votes, than anyone really caring.

It starts with education, initiative and hard work. In my opinion, the best way to deal with wage inequality is making sure all children have a chance for a good education. What they do with it is up to them.

Odd that Boston prides itself on progressivness yet fails miserably at these type things.

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I don't care what the owner of my company makes, nor others around me

Really? So if you busted your ass and helped your company double its profits, and your boss decided to keep the extra revenue for himself without giving you a raise or a bonus, you wouldn't care?

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I care if I honestly thought I was cheated. Just complaining about evil rich people because they have more than you doesn't mean anyone cheated.

And if I work at a private company, the owner can do as they please. Of course, if I don't like it I can find other employment.

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And if I work at a private company, the owner can do as they please

So then there's no way you could get cheated, I guess. The boss could cut your salary in half, take away your desk, do whatever he wants, and if you don't like it, you can just go pound sand. Nothing to get upset about, just the free market.

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I'm sure somebody will remember this the next time you decry the plight of people pushed out of the city by housing costs.

Even though this sort of research can help identify that as a problem and a policy priority.

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Really? So if you busted your ass and helped your company double its profits, and your boss decided to keep the extra revenue for himself without giving you a raise or a bonus, you wouldn't care?

That's exactly how I'd feel about it, Scratchie. If you would feel cheated, it's your prerogative to complain if you want - and here's hoping you'd get that bonus - but, no, I wouldn't care.

If I'm hired to do a job, I do the job. As long as the compensation agreed upon at the beginning is delivered, and working conditions do not significantly change for the worse, I won't feel cheated no matter what my doing of the job accomplishes. A bonus is always nice, but never expected.

That's truly how I feel.

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

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While humanity's overall wealth has increased over time, not all resources do (eg, most of the world's not creating more useful land on any significant scale - filled back bays and weird ass islands in Dubai notwithstanding).

So while it's not quite a closed amount, the growth of wealth is more limited at this point in history than our population. So the relative value of people's income is an important factor in how well we live.

Here's a massively simplified and borderline-insulting example:

Imagine a troop of monkeys who live in a forest of fruit trees. In Year 1 (Monkey Era), some monkeys, by dint of social position, brute strength, guile, or government connections, are able to procure a bigger share of the available fruit. But there's still enough fruit so that all monkeys, even the little shy ones, the lazy ones, the injured ones, the old ones, and the unlucky ones, are able to get enough fruit to survive. Happy happy monkeys!

Now it is Year 100 ME. The troop has expanded - both in numbers and territory. There is now half again more fruit available - but twice as many monkeys. If the amount of fruit were evenly distributed, there would still be more than enough for all the monkeys to live fat happy monkey lives. But unfortunately, the top monkeys now control much more of the total fruit harvest. Now the top 1% of monkeys keep about a third of the fruit, and the bottom 20% of the monkeys have just 1% of the fruit.

Even though there is more fruit-wealth than ever, many monkeys will suffer, some may die. And a lot of that fruit wealth will sit (and rot) and do no monkey any real good.

That's why relative income is important. We're not just monkeys.

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One of the fundamental postulates of Marxism is a sort of Malthusian crisis, that some resource (be it labor, capital, or raw materials) is in short supply, and that some central coordinator(s) must be put in place to dole it out equitably. History shows that this is not so -- human ingenuity is not an exhaustible resource and given the freedom to innovate, humanity averts Malthusian crises organically, without coordination (as though moved by an invisible hand). Nobody organized the panoply of scientific discoveries that led to Fritz Haber's invention of an industrial process for nitrogen fixation. That process now feeds more people than were even alive when he discovered it -- about 2 billion -- and obesity is no longer just a first world problem.

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...you seem to be trying to slip an ideological slant into it.

There's ample historical evidence that many - perhaps most - of humanity's ingenious inventions to avoid "malthusian crises" have actually been social, not technological. (And btw, history also shows us that even long-established societies can fail to come up with such solutions - even after centuries/millenia of previous successes - and disappear forever).

There's nothing inherent in the idea of progressive social programs that contradicts your premise that humans can figure our way out of this particular problem. Quite the opposite - unlike the monkeys in my example, we can create social/economic/political structures that ensure that nearly everyone gets the resources they need to survive, and also have incentive to produce even more wealth.

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My point is that you're ideologically slanted. The monkeys represent a totally false analogy -- we already almost have more bananas than all the monkeys in the world can safely eat. In the US, this is certainly the case.

Relying on centralized social interventions to control the distribution of bananas tends to create scarcity. See the famines in India that Adam Smith describes as caused by British interventions to prevent price gouging, or the famines in the Ukraine or China in the 20th century. We are so much better at doing hard science than social engineering that it's insane to place any trust in the latter. Efforts to eliminate scarcity itself have always been more successful at raising the standard of living than efforts to eliminate inequality.

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I never said anything about centralized social interventions - that's all you projecting your own straw man arguments into the thread.

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Housing costs don't tend to care about making middle- or low-income properties. I'm from SF and many of my friends are getting priced out of what used to be working class neighborhoods; even shady parts of town are out of reach for most.

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Middle Income/ Working Class families are being priced out by people from SF (and elsewhere).

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Middle class families are very sensitive to school quality, but can't afford private school. So the families who stay in pricey cities with mediocre schools either can afford private or they can't afford to move, except for the few who feel up to gambling on working the system.

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Actually, all the pricy cities are exporting people to the less pricey. California to Oregon and Washington, etc.

Boston is a pricy city, and people who build equity here can buy for cash in a less pricy city, driving that city's prices up. Many of the people who are driving prices up in Boston have been here all along, or at least since they started their undergraduate education. They just aren't moving to the suburbs to buy like people in their income bracket used to.

Like the guy in my office who just bought a condo in Southie? Grew up in Malden.

Your "outsider invasion" description is telling, though.

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On the whole, Boston is a rich city and Massachusetts is a rich state. That means that you're paying a lot more for some things -- rent, parking, building contractors, to name a few -- which is very tough if you have modest means. At the same time, it means that there's a lot available to you notwithstanding your modest means: world-class parks and museums, an excellent health care system, economic opportunity, etc. So both good and bad.

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Which world class parks? Boston has some nice outdoor spaces but I don't see the world class part. Compared to many other coastal cities, the waterfront experience of Boston is terrible.

The DCR might be a world class patronage operation though....

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Frederick Law Olmsted cut his teeth on Boston! I mean--lets start with the Common which is the oldest if not the most glamorous, then the a Public Garden which is pretty world class. And then add in Olmsted and the Emerald Necklace and Franklin Park (maybe I'm biased as a neighbor but I think it's one of the most beautiful spots in the city.) Plus we have the Esplanade and the waterfront is getting better all the time, IMO. AND the Arboretum which may not count as a park per se but is also pretty amazing. What more could you want?

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There are lots of downsides, it's why people have revolutions. It destabilizes the social fabric, the democratic process, neighborhood structures, transportation systems and crime rates. Even if you don't care your kids might object to the McLife they'll be leading.

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Its household income (2 earners) not each person in the household, so you add your and your wife's income to see household (or double yours if you at least want to somewhat fairly compare). The point of comparing across all residents of Boston is that if their is a larger disparity it usually has repercussions on cost of living for all, if the wealthy earn more and more and the rest earn less and less, that less (or stagnating) gets you less as rent increases (as it has) and transportation costs increase (we had 2 fare increases under Romney and 1 under Patrick).

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I care how he got it and how he uses it though. Because if he has exponentially more than me, then he has the ability to use it for good or for evil (and not using it can be seen as evil too). And if he obtained it all through a loophole or cheating others who are now suffering as a result or through a means of manufacturing it in such a way that this newly created amount reduces the value of what little I have in comparison at the same time, then his actions to get so much more than everyone else is destabilizing in a dozen potential different ways.

And usually someone that has engineered a method to get so much more than everyone else (and more than he could ever possibly spend) has developed that method out of greed. Greed doesn't care about others and only wants more. They got to where they are by using what they have in order to obtain more of the same. And that means when they get to the point of being able to do things like buy influence, if it proves that doing so will get them more...they'll do it because that's how they got to where they are already and so they see nothing wrong. And at the point their buying influence, they're usually buying it to screw someone else by changing the rules to be unfair in their advantage...something that isn't available to the rest of us. And that's where they use their overwhelming fortune for evil on the whole. It's a very natural progression and very few escape that inevitability depending on how they amassed that wealth.

So, that's why it's not envy of what they have. It's wary at how they got there and choose to proceed since they will inevitably effect us all as a result. And for those that have exposed just how they choose to act and their choice is evil, you'll have to pardon me for the gnashing of teeth and rending of clothes, but they drew the first blood by acting the way they did.

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You do put a lot of 'ifs' in your post, but isn't the tl:dr version simply that some rich people are terrible? That's true of all people - rich, poor, middle class, etc... I don't believe that being rich is an automatic disqualification to being a good person.

There's a lot of money around here that wasn't made in the Goldman-Sachs vampire squid like manner that you're describing. A lot of rich people in Boston have made money in things like biotech, computers, business, etc... by doing something very clever or very well and then capitalizing on that achievement. Local rich people pay a lot more in taxes than rich people in other parts of the country. Sure, it could be more progressive but you seem to be railing about rich people like they are by definition exploitative. Amar Bose is a nice counter example - made billions, left it mostly to MIT. You can of course find people who are rich who did get there is an unethical or amoral manner.

'Acting the way they did'? Feel free to Occupy Wall Street, but please leave our tech, medical and biotech industries out of it please.

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I said exactly what I wanted said and exactly how I wanted it said. If you boil it down and lose the importance of the fact that I don't claim that "rich people are by definition exploitative", then that's on you, not me.

I don't solely describe a "vampire squid" as the only way to make money from money. For example, how many of those entrepreneurial do-gooding biomed/tech billionaires in the Boston area are on the Boston2024 committee? I haven't heard too many of them speak out about it. Do you think the construction mogul running the shindig is angling for the government to help in bringing the Olympics here purely out of an altruism for his fellow man and the comraderie of good international sporting games? That tower downtown isn't called "The Bose Building". It's the Pru and the Hancock. We have lots of insurance money and healthcare money here in Boston too, literally made on the backs of the injured.

Furthermore, local rich people likely pay *less* than their fellow rich people, because our flat state tax system and zero city tax rates allow them to. http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2015/03/13/why-does-massachusetts-ea...

The $860,000+ crowd only pay a share of 4.9% of their income into state and local taxes. That's half as much as what California's richest have to pay from their income. So, they're doing a lot better to live here than, say, San Francisco. In terms of the inequality our tax schemes create as a result of requiring a larger share from the lower 20% than the upper 1%, we're 24th in the nation...right down the middle.

http://www.itep.org/whopays/

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Boston caters to the very rich through NIMBY only the connected need apply development policies in half the city and heavily subsidizes & imports the poor in the other half.

Of course there's going to be no middle ground when the government very actively tinkers with demographics to that magnitude.

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My first thought when I read this was - where are Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, Philadelphia* and other big cities? I would expect Seattle to be in the Top 10.

The article gives much more detail. Seattle and the other cities are on the rise. They're working hard towards income inequality but they haven't quite made the cut.

Sorry to be a nerd - I just wanted to encourage people to read more and not just take the table at face value.

Also of note: I couldn't find COL in the article. I wonder how it would affect the results.

*Philadelphia doesn't seem to be anywhere in this article. I don't know much about it other than it's a big city in the Boston to DC megalopolis.

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Guess I'm not the only supporter they lost after those nine fundraising emails in two days, they sent me last year. I suppose they have nothing better to report on.

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It's unclear to me whether it's just Boston proper, or if it includes the environs. Might change the results if you include Cambridge, Brookline, Everett, etc.

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Does the study include places like Dunwoody and Sandy Springs or not?

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My bet would be on MSAs - metropolitan statistical areas - which are a city and its economic draw area, as defined by the US census. This is an important unit of demography in the united states.

However, they do talk about the exurbanization and suburbanization of poverty in Seattle in particular in the 2014 analysis as sort of a MAUP confounding issue (modifyable areal unit problem - a less intentional gerrymandering sort of effect where you can change boundaries or areal units and get different answers) ... I wish they would be more explicit in their areal unit definitions.

Without specific local knowledge, it would be difficult to know which census tracts or even zip code tabulation areas (zctas) to include within an analysis.

If they are doing comparisons with "within city" only data, I think it would be interesting to see what happens to their results if they used the entire MSA data as well.

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Education level should also be included in the study as it's likely to show that education level is the largest predictor of income.

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While it's probably true that large numbers of those in the 20th percentile have high-school educations or less, and that reasonably large numbers of those in the 95th percentile have enjoyed extensive schooling, there's not necessarily any causation between lots of education and lots of money. A friend of mine did an undergraduate degree in French and literature, a Masters in teaching, another Masters in pedagogy (no, I don't really know the difference between teaching and pedagogy and I'm afraid to ask), and a Ph.D in poetry. Unsurprisingly, she makes very little money (and is pretty bitter about it).

Anyway, it seems to me that education level isn't a predictor, per se, just a possible co-morbidity of being in a certain income bracket. If you get a whole bunch of degrees in some sort of humanities subject, you're not at all guaranteed a lucrative job.

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Why, your friend's story sounds suspiciously like empirical evidence that the labor theory of value is false.

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It is also a lesson in how populations are not individuals, and vice versa. There are always outliers and extreme values.

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This study data is from the American Community Survey mailings. Looking at their website it appears that Boston is the City of Boston only.
If you receive one of these surveys in the mail from the Census Bureau it is mandatory that you provide the information; else you can be fined.... but it looks like that never happens.

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Those darn college kids, they only work part-time (or not at all). The 130,000 of them that live in Boston should work more so their incomes rise and fix the inequality.

But, seriously, this data don't lie. It's accurate if you run the numbers. What it means, of course, is what matters.

Approximately 22% of Boston's housing stock is income-restricted or subsidized. This is 2x more than any other major US city. So, more "poorer" people live in Boston than in other US cities.

It's a lot more complex than that but those are the top two points I'll make.

PS. The Brookings Institute doesn't seem to talk about how it created their spreadsheet. They used the ACS for the data but then it has to be crunched. Most experts use what's called the Gini co-efficient.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

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keeps getting ___________!

To poor to buy, not poor enough to qualify.

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To poor, to buy, to sleep, perchance to dream....

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The Eight Americas Study: demographics, socieoeconomic status, location, and health in the United States: http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.00...

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Really, where did you get this figure?

Approximately 22% of Boston's housing stock is income-restricted or subsidized. This is 2x more than any other major US city

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Correction: 22% of Boston's housing stock is "affordable" (income-restricted and subsidized) whereas 5% of the average city's housing stock is "affordable".

Source (Page 4): http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/getattachment/76bd9781-55ee-... (Warning, PDF)

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