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City: Can't sweep streets with all that snow and ice out there
By adamg on Fri, 02/27/2015 - 12:14pm
Boston's DPW announced today it's holding off on the annual re-start of street sweeping until after "streets are cleared to the curb and gutters are free of ice and snow."
Fans of cleaner streets in the North End, the South End and Beacon Hill, where street sweeping normally starts in March, will have to wait for "a thaw and large scale melting," the department said, adding that also means daytime parking restrictions will not apply there, either. The DPW says it will send out notices when the streets are fit to sweep
Sweeping in other neighborhoods isn't scheduled to start until April 1, by when people who prefer not to remember 1997 are hoping streets will be ice free enough for sweeping.
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Comments
Too bad, they could really
Too bad, they could really write some tickets!
Its hard to sweep the streets
Its hard to sweep the streets when they are filled with lawn furniture and broken electronics. But perhaps we are being a bit hard on the space saver users. Its not their fault that their parents failed to raise decent people who understand the concepts of sharing and cleaning up after themselves.
Not really
The sweepers usually are accompanied by a supervisor in a pickup. They could throw anything on the road in the back.
Or they could just put stuff on the sidewalk.
Of course, in most parts of town, sweeping and trash pickup are done on the same day.
BTW, man you are obsessed with space saving. Some of us can actually thing about multiple things.
Some of us can actually thing
Like the Olympic bid.
LOL
The hypocrisy of you accusing someone else of being obsessed with space saving is stunning.
No hypocrisy
I just saw several comments by this guy on several non-saver stories that has lead me to conclude that there is an obsession on his behalf.
If you are bored, check out some of my comments in the past day or so. Actual notes on snow removal, discussion on transit woes. I can read something Adam posts and not automatically bring up space saving. This guy seems unable to do so. Heck, on a saver post, I even suggested to him that if he wanted his new TV picked up by the trash guys, call them ahead of time.
Don't forget
the busted bicycles left chained to street signs. Bicycles that have then fallen over and into the street. Bicycles lazy riders have chosen to never come back to.
yes let's not forget
The busted cars left beneath snow piles. Cars that have stopped working and been left in the street. Cars lazy drivers have chosen never to come back to.
;)
LOL
Why not use this as an
Why not use this as an opportunity to plow and clear the streets on the side that would have been swept? If the city did this, the whole city would want earlier street sweeping, one day of hassle and the parking issues with snow would be greatly improved.
because clearly this makes
because clearly this makes far too much sense for any of our 'leadership' to figure out.
why they don't do this during winter, instead of this space saver vandalization mania, would be a question i would like answered. seriously — is there a practical reason for not doing this?
Seriously! Even/odd plowing
Seriously! Even/odd plowing to the curb!
They do this in Somerville
They do this in Somerville except they don't actually do it. So even if they started doing this it probably wouldn't do anything.
Anon for mayor!
Apparently this is one of those things that just makes too much sense to happen.
Too much snow
I am all for early street cleaning, but my street alone would take like 5-6 truck loads of snow. Maybe really closer to 10-12. Anyway multiply that by all the side streets and then would not finish it in the 4 hours allotted. There are only 3 street cleaning days for my street in March.
On the other hand they could put a dent in the amount of snow on the streets if the street was cleared of cars and they could get room with a payloader or street size snow blower.
That's a good reason
That's a good reason why they should have started the process weeks ago.
For starters, there are still
For starters, there are still a lot of cars, mummified under ice and snow that would have to be dug out before they could be towed.
Im sure the towing fee is
Im sure the towing fee is cheaper than paying someone to shovel/chop the car out.
is it?
If you get to it right away it's typically around $200. If the car sits overnight, storage fees add up, weekend depending - the lot might not be open over the weekend and you pay for those 2 days.
And you may or may not have aticket on top of those charges.
How much are people charging to shovel out?
Ah, yes, April 1, 1997
"Mets, Phillies, you made a critical error, cost the Mets the game."
"and you said, 'nice game, Pretty Boy'."
Wait...what? Oh sorry, that was June 14, 1987 - according to Newman.
April 1, 1997: 27 inches of snow. As I recall, it was then 72 degrees, or something ridiculous, just a few days later which caused crazy flooding and the demise of the signal system near Kenmore...which was not fixed for years.
This is why I have been saying that this no-melt scenario is going to be the gift that keeps on giving. Just about the time the commuter rail might be getting back to "normal" capacity, I am expecting all kinds of water-related problems for the subways (and the commuter rail too, for that matter, with surface watercourses).
melt
we are guessing when the big melt comes this is going to make the ice dams and lack of snow clean up look like child's play.
44 forecasted on Wed!
44 forecasted on Wed!
The Green Line signal system
The Green Line signal system was destroyed by a rain flood on October 21, 1996. It had nothing to do with snow.
Use the street sweeping days
Use the street sweeping days to plow to the curb. It's not rocket science!
It is for a mayor that
It is for a mayor that apparently has no concept of how to do anything in regards to transportation.
I've read cereal boxes that provide better transportation leadership than Walsh.
Snow farms
The gates to the snow farm in Southie have been closed for a couple of days now. No action going on at all. It appears the snow clearing has come to a grinding halt. Accidents at intersections and no access for ambulances and fire apparatus is a public safety issue not being addressed.
Not quite
I ran (yes ran) to the snow farm in Hyde Park (not necessarily for this purpose, but it is part of my running route) last night. It was open, emptier than it was 2 weeks ago, and staffed.
As Adam has noted, Hyde Park Ave is getting cleared. Washington Street in Roslindale is due to be cleared. It's taking time, but the work is getting done.
Cambridge street last night
There was some snow removed from Cambridge St last night. Not a lot, perhaps just one truck load (just snow at sidewalk/side street intersections). But it had to go somewhere.
Broad Street in Boston was
Broad Street in Boston was cleared last night.
Not rocket science
But is labor free?
Sorry, it is a great idea, but great ideas cost money. I am willing to bet my paycheck that the only way the snow will depart from the street in front of my neighbors' house (which does not have cars parked in front of it) is through either melting or someone driving over it, which will require much melting to get the pile down under a foot.
Not labor free
But guess what - neither is street sweeping.
True
But it is budgeted. Snow, no snow. Even in rain.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love it if they cleared snow completely from my street, but then there's the side of me that sends out those quarterly checks (okay, figuratively, it comes from mortgage escrow) to the city's collecting department.
So, transfer the money
budgeted for the street sweeping you won't be doing to the snow plowing you should be doing.
Hardly rocket science.
Cost difference
The sweeper can sweep the front of my house in 20 seconds. Removing a pile of snow 3 feet high running 6 feet from the curb, then transporting said snow to a snow farm, then taking snow from the truck and stacking it up at its new location, would take a lot more than 20 seconds, and require more man and machine power.
I'd try to figure out the difference in cost, but then again I am no rocket scientist, so my math is not that good. You can give it a whack if you want.
I don't think there was
I don't think there was anything budgeted for the stupid Olympic committee no one wants but they found the money somewhere.
Not only that
Consider a car completely buried under a mountain of snow. The only indication there is a car there is a glint off the side view mirror.
How does the city tow away 5-6 cars like that, on one side of the street only mind you, per block, in South Boston and still hit their 9-1 street sweeping window. I think you would get 2 cars in and 50 ft of snow cleared before 1 PM arrived. I think it doesn't make sense logistically, as much as I wish there were a way.
One thought on that
Just plop a "no parking, snow removal, tow zone" sign on top of the car and the rest of us can get ready for the photos of what appears to be tow trucks moving glaciers throughout the city to appear right here.
Of course, that will would take a lot more time than the sweeper takes, but we would all laugh. Except for the guy who sees his iceberg/car rolling down the street.
I'm all for it
I just figure its about as likely as Marty driving a plow down my street himself.
Good Point
The City should institute and enforce an ordinance limiting parking in any on-street spot to one week. Tag and tow cars that do not comply.
How about...
...if a car is still buried, consider it abandoned property and let the plows ram it, crush it, roll it, whatever? Property owners have, what, 24 or 48 hours to clear the sidewalks they abut. Give car owners the same.
As someone posted here a few weeks ago, why should a few irresponsible car owners be able to inconvenience and potentially endanger thousands of citizens?
They still tow the abandoned cars
Though I would imagine that the owners would have trouble with damage claims against the city, since some cars are barely distinguishable from snow banks.
Good point about the sidewalks. People here (and I suppose I am included) sure are animated about cars, driving, and the snow, but myself, being a guy obsessed with having a clear sidewalk, am obsessed with my inability to walk (and run) on the sidewalks. It's like, come on folks, get out there and widen your sidewalks. It's nice out.
Question
Seriously - not trolling.
Snow plowing is contract in Boston, yes? And I think street sweeping is by the DPW folk. If so, I suspect therein lies a potential cost discrepancy.
Also - license requirement differences between the snow plowing machinery (any one the ones previously listed including but not limited to pickemup truck with plow, large scale snow blower (that empties into dump truck or open topped semi), dump truck with plow attached, etc) and the street sweeping machinery? Maybe some of our DPW folk don't have the right licensure requirements / OSHA training?
I don't know, but I suspect it is not as simple as just switching out one vehicle for another. I'm happily proven wrong on this one (I feel I must point out I am not a Walsh supporter, since this is now a Walsh bashing thread).
Exactly! Why not send out
Exactly! Why not send out some plows instead of the street sweepers? Its still hard to understand that bus routes and main streets are jammed because of the snow non-removal. They had their chances when the snow emergencies were in effect, now its too late.
Doesn't the city have people that can actually shovel? Meaning, getting out of their warm plow trucks and doing something else other than pushing it around from the comfort of a vehicle? Throw some melter on the piles, anything!
hmmm, let's think this
hmmm, let's think this through. Street, curb, sidewalk. If we push what's on the street to the 4" curb will you complain when the sidewalks are full of the snow?
No, it's not rocket science, idiots.
The world is your snowball
See how it grows
That's how it goes
Whenever it snows
The world is your snowball
Just for a song
Get out and roll it along
It's a yum-yummy world
Made for sweethearts
Take a walk
With your favorite girl
It's a sugar date
What if spring is late
In winter
It's a marshmallow world
Yup, plowing to the curb
Yup, plowing to the curb really just means pushing the snow on the sidewalk. You see it at intersections which people can't walk through because there is an 8 foot mound of ice on all corners.
Another Misstep
Wow, Mayor Walsh has done a horrific job this winter. Yes, this has been more snow than we're used to getting, but it has now been well over a week since the last major incident and still portions of major roads including Tremont, Columbus, Mass, and Huntington are blocked by snow. There was a 3-4 day parking ban and nothing was removed. This will keep piles of snow (some containing cars) on side streets, keeping travel and parking very difficult for the foreseeable future. This, coupled by the vigilante vandalism that he and his government have done little to prevent (he's even slightly encouraged it with some remarks) are really signs of a Mayor who is just not ready for prime time.
You must be new here
First, obviously, there is no comparison between this response and responses to other winters due to the amount of snow and lack of melting between storms.
Second, in past years with heavy snowfalls we have dealt with this white crap for weeks until the Public Works folk have been able to get on top of it.
Third, as far as immediate cleanup from these storms- making the streets basically passable- Walsh has been close to the level of his predecessor. Plow drivers were sent home in the middle of the April Fools storm of 1997, leading to unplowed streets. Heck, back in 2011 the merchants of the Back Bay were crying for the mayor's head over the lack of their patrons to park on Newbury and Boylston Streets. That's right, if you don't remember January 2011, welcome to Boston.
You must be new here
Seems to be a preface for commentators to post condescending remarks towards people they disagree with.
Great...
Just because the last admin had a less than stellar performance, we should be satisfied with the same from this one? Yikes. This type of thinking that "well it has always been this bad so suck it up" keeps us from making much needed progress. Shouldn't we demand more from our city government?
Am I happy with all the snow around?
No, but since the 5 termer before him had some less than stellar winters, and with not this level of storms, I'm just saying to cut a little slack.
Otherwise, I await the Ryan (not verified) campaign in 2017.
How much does Marty pay you?
Never said Menino was great with it too. My annoyances were the same in 2011. The city has to change. A little slack? Sure. But it has been 10 days since major snow fall and major streets are still partially blocked. Not acceptable. Just because the last mayor wasn't great at this, doesn't mean we should give the current one a pass for similar progress. I'm not asking for the world here, I would just like to be able to safely walk and drive through the city before mid May...
Okay
So, you have a strong grip on budgeting and the process of snow removal?
How many miles of road need to be done?
How many front loaders do you need?
How many dump trucks do you need?
Where do you get the equipment and how do you pay for them?
Moreover, given the Kevin White and Tom Menino both had situations in which 10 days after a SINGLE major storm snow removal key roads were not cleared curb to curb, who out there could have done a better job? Connolly? Think again.
Yeah, I voted for Walsh, but I am the first to say that the Olympics, not this, could do him in. Another of the many reasons it is sad that Menino is no longer with us is that he would probably be the first guy to back Walsh up on this. You think it's that easy, keep thinking that.
Not My Job
I'm not the Mayor of Boston, so it isn't my job to know these things. It is my job to vote for someone who does.
I know enough to think that 10+ days (3/4 of which had parking bans on major arteries) since a major snow incident should be enough time for the city to remove snow from these major roads - which has not happened. I also think that the city should figure out a way to remove snow from its side streets in a reasonable amount of time.
I honestly do not care how past administrations did. If Boston wants to be a "world class city" then it has to do a better job cleaning up after these storms. Neighbors fighting neighbors, etc. over parking spaces, and unnecessary traffic jams on major roads in the weeks following snow should not be things we just shrug our shoulders about. We should strive to do better.
Of course it isn't easy. It doesn't mean we should't try to do it. Is that really how you want us to approach difficult situations?
Walsh has done as least as well as Menino
If you ignore the space saver bad call, Walsh has done fairly well with snow removal.
Cambridge St near MGH is way better than in 2011 as said above. People were parking in the travel lane for a month or more then. The snow has been cleared to the curb this time and mostly parking in the travel lanes has not been tolerated where it was in 2011 (I can't speak for most parts of the city). I saw plows too many times on my street in the last 2 storms - not always the case with Menino. Also in 2011 There was a 6 foot tall snow pile that just sat out in the street at the corner of Garden and Joy street for close to a month. Nothing happening like that this year.
I think it would cost too much (both in time and money) to remove all the snow from all the side streets.
Again the space save call is really big mark against him because it encourages vandalism.
Check Out the South End
Lots of huge piles there.
If your difference between Marty and Tom is
Space saving (I didn't want to put that in the subject line, else flames would go up) it is a draw. Remember that 2 years after the "48 hours" edict, he relaxed it for 2 weeks after a 2 foot storm. Heck, going my the total snow on ground and endorsement of the South End plan, Marty's kind of stricter on this.
And as a general thing, don't worry Walsh haters, even though the snow will melt and for most Bostonians it will be a faint, perhaps repressed memory, you'll have other things. Just keep on cheering for the continuation of the 2024 Olympics bid.
The 48-hour edict is
The 48-hour edict is irrelevant since the city passed an ordinance in August 2014 which unambiguously bans space savers.
Unrealistic idea but will offer it nevertheless:
Go outside with a bucket. Fill bucket with snow. Go inside and dump snow into kitchen sink. Repeat several times. More than one person in your home? Turn it into a team sport. Work on two piles. Whoever finishes a pile first gets a dinner, round of drinks or perhaps "other" (depending on age of participants) prize.
I live on the third floor.
Screw.
Dumping stormwater into
Dumping stormwater into sanitary sewers overtaxes the waste treatment plant at Deer Island and can lead to untreated sewage being released into the harbor.
That actually is a point in support of the idea
Not that I think it's a particularly practical or useful idea, but getting some of the snow into the sewage system now before we get outdoor temps above zero would mean less impact on the system when the big melt comes, not more.
not really
Are you aware that storm is not sanitary? Sewer is a generic term and you should know that there is a difference in how the water is treated based upon which pipe it goes down. Boston's sewer system was combined, and still has some combined pipes, but they've been working to separate the two for a number of years. This link shows a bit of that history: http://www.bwsc.org/ABOUT_BWSC/systems/sewer/PresentDay_sewer.asp
What comes out of your house is sanitary and is treated at a wastewater treatment plant, what goes into the grates at the street is storm and goes straight back to the water systems around the City. There is an 'acceptable' amount of 'stuff' with regards to the storm system, but there are catch basins that allow solids to settle before the liquids move on to the water systems. The sand/salt mixture is considered acceptable in melt rates upon entering the storm system. The snow farms have such high concentrations that waiting for that to melt is the typical methodology. Slow and steady and all that.
If you brought the snow inside to go down your house drains, you'd be putting a tax on the wastewater treatment plants - well, if everyone did it.
The goal is to be responsible about getting the water back into the water table and our surounding waterways. That's all.
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe we should keep the snow piles in and around the Back Bay and South End - the added water to the water table (once it's gotten there) will help the pilings that are starting to erode now that they're not in standing water as they used to be. Anyone remember that story that was out and about 12 years or so ago? The depleted water tables in the South End and Back Bay were allowing air to get to the pilings supporting the buildings?
Agreed
Now the next PSAs that need to come out is finding and clearing the storm drains.
It would make walking and cycling safer for all. Nevermind flooding into basements.