Hey, there! Log in / Register
Clear your roof before ISD knocks on your door
By adamg on Fri, 02/20/2015 - 4:57pm
ISD inspectors are fanning out across Boston, looking for roofs with excessive amounts of snow and ice. The mayor's office says:
Inspectors are knocking on doors and informing property owners that their property has been identified as having an excessive amount of snow and/or ice buildup which could create damage and become a serious hazard. Inspectors are also distributing an informational flyer regarding the impact of the excessive snow and/or ice.
According to the city, residents should "safely remove snow from porches and decks," as well as clear out gutters and ice spouts - and should hire a contractor if they can't. But don't hire just anyone, the city says: Make sure whoever you hire has references, a business license and proof of worker's compensation insurance.
And do it before tomorrow afternoon, when a new storm is expected to dump several inches of snow and then rain on local roofs.
Neighborhoods:
Ad:
Support Universal Hub
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Comments
how about the city worry
how about the city worry about removing their own damn snow. Can I cite them for not clearing roads and crosswalks?
No money in that
Thats all that matters.
I'll follow up if I'm able.
If my house collapses, this could be my last comment on universal hub. I'll follow up if I'm able.
Take your snow and ice
And throw it off your roof onto the street. The a City won't notice...there's snow from the first storm on the roads.
Wow
Well, that's one way for the city to make an extra few bucks. At least they have mass transit and street snow removal covered. Dinks.
So when the elderly man/woman
So when the elderly man/woman on a fixed income that lives alone in a dilapidated house gets fined because they can't do the work or afford to hire someone who benefits?
Can they call elder services?
The ISD isn't doing this because it is an opportunity to fine people. They are doing it because someone who isn't able to maintain their property might die inside it when it collapses.
Some cities and towns have help lines that people can call if they are in need of such assistance. But not writing tickets and levying consequences for dangerous situations shouldn't be an option.
I dunno... .
It's the property owners job not to endanger me when I'm walking down the sidewalk. Period.
Forward along...
Feel free to forward along the innumerable reports of icicles impaling pedestrians. No worries, I'll wait.
Sorry to make you wait...
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-03-02/news/9403020157_1_mrs-boot...
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_14720779
http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/woman-killed-by-snow-fa...
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/01/heavy_snows_higher_... (search for Mark Tromp, halfway down the article)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1219713.stm
First article from 1994.
First article from 1994. Second article about two guys killed while they were clearing a roof. Nice research.
Crushed cars not enough for you?
Seriously - this stuff is dangerous. 1994 was the last time we had this sort of buildup, so, yes, relevant.
I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make
Are you seriously arguing that, say, 50 lbs of ice falling 4 stories onto a pedestrian isn't a problem?
Outlier events
I was not arguing that the scenario you outline is not a problem. I was arguing that death or serious injury to pedestrians due to falling snow and/or ice seems to be an incredibly rare event.
IOW, it sucks outside and I'm cranky.
ISD should mind their own
ISD should mind their own business, how can an elderly person remove snow from their roof, the cost of removing snow stretches from $200 to as much as $2000 plus finding a contractor to do the job requires for them to have insurance.You can not have anyone without having the proper insurance do the job. Because if an uninsured contractor removes snow from a roof and gets hurt, the home owner will be sued..
If you can get anyone on the
If you can get anyone on the phone now. They're all so swamped with work and calls it's almost impossible to get someone to talk to at all let alone get an estimate and schedule work.
If their house collapses ...
What will you say then?
Who will you blame then?
I remember the "April Fools Day" storm
I remember in the days after the "April Fools Day" storm about 15 years ago, walking down the street and watching a load of snow come sliding off someone's roof and snap a tree in half. This tree had a trunk the diameter of my upper arm. That impact would, without a doubt, have killed me had I been about 20 feet further down the sidewalk.
Preventing me from being killed by such hazards, by requiring property owners to clear their roofs, seems pretty central to ISD's mission, doesn't it?
ISD is fanning? Really? ISD
ISD is fanning? Really? ISD should spend time looking at the sidewalks within two blocks of the mayor's home. It wouldn't take ISD too much time to find completely unshovelled sidewalks on the south side of Savin Hill Ave between Dot Ave and the station. If Marty got out of his chauffeured SUV, he'd notice the problems close to home.
Honest
The Mayor is doing all he can .. under the circumstances... If your looking for miracles... Go to church
>>>dump several inches of
>>>dump several inches of snow
Make that wet snow. Even NWS warns:
There is substantial concern for roadways within urban centers becoming water-canals due to snow-clogged drains limiting drainage of a rainfall / snow-melt
combination. Also concerned as to the water-loading of snow on roof-tops. Snow
will easily absorb any rainfall like a sponge. With snow atop roofs
potentially holding a couple to several inches of water-equivalent
additional rainfall on top of would easily result in roof collapses.
We're not getting a foot of snow this weekend, but it's still going to be a shitshow.
So perhaps the City should actually be proactive
and - say - provide the RESOURCES to help people remove snow from their roofs. Instead, all we get is a ISD door to door bully threat of "you vill clean your roof - even if you can't afford to do so."
And this issue has been discussed in the news since before the third major storm this winter - and ISD suddenly considers it serious enough to
wastespend their time and the taxpayer's money sending inspectors out to look at every building in Boston.Do you realize the risks here?
They didn't "suddenly" decide - there is RAIN IN THE FORECAST.
There has been time between storms to remove the buildup.
I'm sure your flat roof home in Reading has theses issues, right?
"The city" is us....
It's just like sidewalks. For "the city" to provide the RESOURCES means the taxpayers provide the resources. So there are really only two possible ways of keeping the roofs clear: Either the city requires the property owner to do it using his own resources, or the city collects additional taxes from the property owner and then provides the property owner with resources. The latter seems like a needless round trip through bureaucracy, with associated inefficiencies.
ISD and residences and roofs
How about this--assign the National Guard to help people who can't do it themselves, and can't afford a contractor, to clear the roofs that the ISD is so concerned about?
As a taxpayer
As a taxpayer, I'd rather not pay for maintaining other people's private property.
Walt and anon, it doesn't say
Walt and anon, it doesn't say anyone will get fined. I think if ISD meant that, they would say it. They're not shy about warning they will fine over something.
You are all so worried about the elderly and want ISD to mind their own business, but it will be too late to mind if the roof collapses and the elderly homeowner is hurt or worse. And neither of you seem to care if a killer icicle or like hurts or kills an innocent passing pedestrian.
All this is is a friendly warning, that your roof's endangering yourself or others.
I am happy that ISD will be
I am happy that ISD will be addressing this issue. I walk to and from work every day. Some of the icicles hanging off of peoples homes could kill a pedestrian. The situation is only going to get worse with rain coming. Maybe the National Guard could help with clearing some of the elderly persons roofs .
The city should start
The city should start fanning out Commonwealth ave, Beacon street, Newbury Street, Marlborough Street, Charles Street, Let' see how many wealthy home owners in these areas will shovel off snow from their rooftops.
I can speak for Charles Street
There have been crews out all week.
Isn't ISD responsible for
Isn't ISD responsible for issuing citations for unshoveled sidewalks? I wouldn't hold my breath, since they haven't bothered with that.
Of course, you can see a snowy roof from inside a department-issued car, while blocked sidewalks require one to get out and, y'know,walk.
Can we call in a location?
The house next to mine is in desperate need of a roof cleaning and the tenants have called their landlord to ask, but she has said it's not necessary. I don't want them to have a cave in; there are some little kids in the building. Can I give ISD the location?
I reported my landord. I can
I reported my landord. I can only hope ISD actually responds.
Looks proactive to me
http://t.co/3d9c4U91LC
I want to make sure I've got this straight
So, ISD, as part of their patrolling, is looking at people's roofs to see if they are in danger of collapse on Sunday. If they see a dangerous roof, they are informing the owner of the building, so that the owner can take steps to ensure the roof doesn't collapse, and this is a bad thing?
I can see the conversation now-
ISD- Hi. We were working in the neighborhood and noticed that you have several feet of snow on your roof.
Owner- So?
ISD- Well, with the rain coming on Sunday, that will be a lot of weight. The weight could cause your roof to collapse.
Owner- So?
ISD- Well, I mean, it could collapse on you, and even if you escape unharmed, you are talking thousands of dollars in damage.
Owner- Hey, that's what's insurance is for. Am I violating the law?
ISD- um, no, but...
Owner- Well, then, fuck off.
Has anyone witnessed a house
Has anyone witnessed a house roof collapse in the City of Boston? I know that there have been a fair amount of roof collapses with warehouses, sheds, barns, carports etc. But any houses? The last one I remember hearing about was in JP in 2011 on Porter St. It made it to the front page of the Globe. I actually knew that house quite well, having worked in it weeks before. It was gutted, and the the framing was very scary looking. The owner didn't have a chance to make proper structural reinforcement before the heavy snow came, and that's why it collapsed (empty of occupant). I do pay attention to these things, and I haven't heard of a single case of an occupied house or residential building collapsing under the weight of the snow in Boston. Anyone cares to prove me wrong?
Check back on Monday
It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were roof collapses in Boston after tomorrow's rain.
The ISD is just trying to warn people about a real danger.
According to all the weather people, we really have never had this much snow in this short a time, with this little melting. The weight of rain or freezing rain on already snow-covered roofs could absolutely cause roofs to collapse.
There have been roof
There have been roof collapses at homes and a condo complex in Quincy and Randolph. I don't believe anyone was injured but residents did have to evacuate. There will only be more of that coming with this next storm.
I think you are by and large
I think you are by and large correct. If you look at the news reports on roof collapses in the area, they often do not distinguish between residential and commercial collapses, nor do they give much info in the way of the cause. Usually it takes an inspector to officially determine this, but as you note in the case above, it is often due to other issues that have gone unresolved. There were a couple of collapses of larger apartment building roofs, but these are often more or less flat, and in that it is hard enough to get the owner of a large apartment to regularly schedule trash pickup, probably are not being cleared off.
I'm not a structural engineer, but I do know that roofs in this area of country have to be rated for a certain snow load, often no less than 35 lb/sq. ft, and this is direct weight, not accounting for the fact that the majority of residential roofs have a pitch of some sort, which would reduce the load depending on the degree of pitch. I think that unless someone has a mostly flat roof on their home, and has done nothing to clear it, the fear-mongering over roof collapse might be knocked back just a bit. As others have pointed out, finding someone to come and take care of this (safely) between now and Sunday AM is probably impossible, especially because everyone is now scared that their roof is ready to come crashing down. Is it worth risking injuries that might actually be more serious than those caused by a roof collapse when homeowners try to climb up onto their icy pitched roof to clear snow off? Yes, the city is making it clear that you shouldn't do this, but when an official from the city knocks on your door telling you that your roof might collapse tomorrow and you find it impossible to get someone to come clear it off, I can see people trying it.
Some Math
I have seen estimates that say that our snow load right now is equivalent to about 8-10" of rain.
A square foot is 12 x 12 inches. So, we are talking 1150 to 1440 cubic inches of water per square foot (ignoring drifting and loses to wind, etc.)
1440 cubic inches of water weighs 52 lbs. 1150 cubic inches weighs 41.5 lbs.
Even if there is only the equivalent of 6 inches of rain sitting up there, that's still over 30 lbs/square foot.
Trouble.
Check your cosines (for any
Check your cosines (for any roof with even a minor pitch). And do forward all those collapses that were predicted.
Also if you think that there is 8-10 inches of snow load on any but a factory roof, try again. The snow loads you are reading about are cumulative, and because of wind, roof pitch, etc. few homes would have this. Plus, with all but last nights snow being very cold and fluffy, try melting a PVC core sample down. I think in the Boston area you'd be lucky to have 8 inches of water from a sample taken in a yard.
A cautionary tale is down in KY, where there have been plenty of collapses because roofs there are not required to meet anywhere near the load limits as here.