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Twitter as a tool against an MBTA fare hike
By adamg on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 8:05am
George O'Brien would be amazed: Fight the fare increase by twittering fare evaders to help convince the MBTA to go after fare evaders before raising fares.
That's the idea behind Ride Fare, which somebody is setting up to let MBTA riders whip out their six guns and apply some T justice compile stats on just how much revenue the T is losing through fare jumping. See somebody, say something @ridefare (Web site coming).
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Comments
Great idea, I would be
Great idea, I would be concerned about people just making stuff up to add to the numbers though.
If it works I think its a good idea because the T could then focus on those holes where people are more likely able to slip in.
It isn't free money
Remember to consider the fact that reducing fare evasion is not free. For instance, one of the most frequently noted issues is surface green line stations when all doors are opened, and not everyone comes to the front to pay (to be fair, often because it just isn't physically possible). If every surface stop, no matter the schedule or crowding levels, only opened the first door to strictly maximize fare collection, the service on the green line would degrade significantly. To keep it even the same as it is now, additional trains and drivers would need to be added. Sometimes, the cost/benefit analysis says to keep service moving and let some fares go.
In some of the other scenarios, the personnel to do enforcement are also very much not free. I'm sure the commuter rail could collect more fares if it hired enough conductors to make through every passenger on every car of every train every time.
That's just because we're stupid
Self check-in (timestamp/card reader). High penalty compared to fare ($75 fine if caught cheating a $2 fare). Random checks (one person checks a whole train once or twice a week...more often at rush hour).
It pays for itself in the first day, probably.
This is the model for almost all of Europe now. In places like Berlin, it's the same whether you're on a bus, train, or u-bahn/s-bahn. You buy a ticket, you stamp your ticket when you board, the ticket is good for that ride/day/week/whatever.
Kaz is right
Kaz is absolutely correctly about this. This system works well all over Europe. It would work here, too.
To prevent fare evasion in a
To prevent fare evasion in a proof-of-purchase system, you need a credible force of inspectors looking for that proof and issuing fines. Those people also aren't free, but are a distressingly easy area to cut. So it's not a bad idea, but I don't think it's open-and-shut that it would save money, either.
We already have MBTA Police
They even have a plain clothes division for fare evasion. Instead of pretending to stop people at turnstiles, they could pretend to hand out tickets on the trains.
Seems to me if you had police officers in uniform
standing at the faregates in plain sight, it would do a lot more to discourage fare evasion than plain clothes officers do.
The system works well in California as well
Caltrain conductors are sparse, but absolutely present. The tickets are timed so missed fare evasions are limited in their scope. And the tickets can be inspected just by looking at them.
HOWEVER
Caltrain runs on a very strict schedule. One route north and south. It's commuter service, not urban public transit... so there is a real luxury of time available that is really not possible with urban mass transit.
Is this more comparable to the situation in Europe?
In Tokyo, the gates at busy stations are heavily staffed even though the ticketing and admissions are for the most part automated.
Not like Europe
Europe is much more like what we have here in Boston (or I should say, Boston is much more like what they have in Europe). More than just strict schedule trains, they also have strict schedule streetcars, strict schedule buses, and strict schedule subways. You can almost always know when it will arrive (both by schedule and by message board announcements of nearest trains) and you can almost always know when you're going to reach your destination. In Dresden, you timestamp after getting on the streetcar at any door (where you buy your day pass at an electronic ticketing machine at any of the stops).
Why can't we even have *these* on the Green line instead of the in-car towers?
You're less likely to see someone checking timestamps on the streetcars, but it's not improbable enough to risk the penalty. Checking timestamps really works well on even urban mass transit. As long as people see you in their vehicle or have you check their timestamp once in a week or so, they'll comply to avoid being the guy who gets written up (thus paying for all of the unpaid fares on that entire car...at something like $50-75/ticket with a $2 fare, you're covering a lot of missed fares by finding just one offender).
funny thing about the Green Line
I don't seem to recall there being a problem with people going to the front door to pay BEFORE the CharlieSystem. But all of a sudden, now it's "physically impossible"? These are the same trains.
No more free outbound fares
Gren Line used to have free outbound fares, so drivers would open all doors and those who boarded in back didn't have to get to the front.
I know that. I did, after
I know that. I did, after all, write "go up front to pay".
I just meant that, in the
I just meant that, in the past, it wasn't necessary for anyone to go up front after boarding. If I remember correctly, the introduction of the Charlie Card and the elimination of free outbound fares happened at the same time.
Considering that I was
Considering that I was referring to paying a fare, I would have thought it would be safe to assume that the reader would understand that I meant inbound fares, where you paid at the front door, and not outbound trips, where you did not pay.
I guess referring to paying for a trip in two comments was not enough. I hope the third time is the charm.
Well, the other thing was
Well, the other thing was that before the new cards, monthly passes were generally flashed by people boarding at the rear doors. Since each month's pass looked different, anyone trying to evade the fare would be fairly easy to spot (which was itself the main deterrent; I doubt the driver would do anything during rush hour). People still board in this manner, but flashing a card or a ticket or receipt simply doesn't mean anything now; the driver could never tell whether they're valid at a glance in the mirror.
From my experiences living
From my experiences living on the Green Line, when going inbound the conductor almost always opens the front door only, unless the train is at a very busy stop during rush hour (such as Coolidge Corner). Therefore, there was not an issue with people boarding in back having to make their way up front.
Green Line Doors
The fact that fares are charged on outbound Green Line trains is one issue (mentioned down thread). Another is that the RFID and Charlie Cards (RFID) and Tickets are processed MUCH slower than the old ones (probably by a factor of 10 or so).
But, adding additional trains would also result in
less crowding, thus making the boarding process faster for everyone and eliminating most opportunities for fare evasion. It would also reduce the time people actually have to wait for the trains to arrive. Sounds to me like a win-win situation all around.
Oh wait though. This would actually IMPROVE service on the Green Line. Which, sad to say, is why it'll never happen as long as Danny G and his "give me a bus over a streetcar any day of the week" crowd are in command of things.
It would be nice if the MBTA
It would be nice if the MBTA would crack down on fare evaders. I have seen people with expired Charlie tickets skip paying by just flashing the other side of their paper cards. Also, sometimes the drivers will just let people on if they say they do not have the fare. I witnessed a pair of old ladies verbally harass a bus driver because they "forgot" their cards at home. My favorite fare evader is the man at Longwood who on a regular basis claims his pass is on his other card at home.
The problem is that the people who pay with cash on board hold up the line if they do not board last. Even the machines themselves regularly do not work and the drivers just let them climb in. However, if someone does not have to pay, then why should I?
Let me ask all you folks a question
You're at say, Central square. You swipe your card and step through the Charlie gates. One or two rather gruff urban youths walks right behind you, the gate buzzes, they obviously didn't pay. Do you call them out on it? Do you whip out your little blackberry and begin to tweet at how a couple guys just evaded the fare? Do you shout for the MBTA cops?
Or do you look away, edge towrds the train, then blog about it / tweet about it once you are safe at your macbook / office?
Come on, lets have an informal poll. Try to answer honestly =)
Yep, happened to me
I was getting ready to go through the gate and I could see a teenaged girl hanging back to sneak through after me. Normally I wouldn't call somebody out but it just irritated me. I told her it was pretty lame she just kind of shrugged. Unfortunately it seems to happen a lot at Central.
Central and fare evasion
I had a guy suddenly ride my coattails through the gate at Central. He received a look of surprised disapproval, as if he did something that was beneath him.
Another time in Central, maybe a few months ago, I might've been on the other side of fare evasion enforcement. I was using my strategy for not using a CharlieTicket fare until I was sure the train was actually going to come, in case I got fed up and decided to walk or cab instead: I got my ticket from a machine, and then paced in the area before the gates. When the PA finally announced the train, and I went to go through the gates, something was amiss. There was a guy in a safety vest/jacket on the other side who was kinda watching the gates. I figured he might be there because I'd been pacing beneath the cameras. (Actually, it might've been the same guy with a cop's presence who I once saw discreetly pull a couple of rambunctious teens off the Red Line near Park.) I made a show of running my ticket through. When I got through, there was a Transit Police officer right there but out of view, too. Impressive, if this was an attempt to nab a fare evader, but in my case it was a false alarm.
Me and my reactions
There have been a couple of cases where I have bounced people out when they were trying to cheat.
One time, a teen boy attempted to push me aside as I exited, and I moshed him right back out and onto his ass. I said excuse me! Loudly - and the cops did come and sweep him up as he said something about a large female dog. I didn't consciously do this, he just came at me sideways like he was going to shove me and I instinctively took it as an attack threat and got set like an NBA player trying to draw an offensive foul. He may also not have realized that I'm really a female gorilla in a human suit when it comes to mass and power, either.
A second time I had a farebeating hemorrhoid as I headed into Wellington. Again, I detected this person trailing me closely from behind, considered it to be a threatening violation of space and reacted accordingly. As I slowed down or picked up my pace, so did she ... only I have a zone 1A card and it has to be fed through the machine.
So I kept a quick pace and then stopped very short to deploy my pass, sticking my butt out. Madamme Hemorrhoid smashed into my backside and went flying. I looked at her and said "so sorry, please don't follow so closely next time" and zipped in. Again, the cops nailed her as she picked herself off the tiles.
After these adventures, I started keeping my head up and scanning the area and nobody has tried me again.
Honestly, I wouldn't try to
Honestly, I wouldn't try to stop them because I have no authority on the T and I'm kind of a chicken.
Why is it, though, that when the gates start making that awful noise, T employees don't get out of the booth and come see what's happening?
Gate that cried wolf?
Because they'd be bouncing in and out of the chubble every 5 seconds because the gate started squawking when someone scanned a valid pass? Srsly, I think the thing goes off about 40% of the time when I go through. Dunno if I have something in my bag with an offensive RFID or if I go through the thing too slowly or what, but it dings and shows that it took my fare, then screeches at me as I go through. Maybe it thinks my butt or my messenger bag are a second person? I JUST DON'T KNOW
http://1smootshort.blogspot.com
Fare evasion solution
I got shoved into the side of a fare gate when I was exiting at Green St. last year by some stupid thug who took my leaving as his chance to enter.
The T employee working that shift was standing a few feet away, saw it, said nothing, did nothing.
Here's an idea. Stop every fare evader, give them a serious fine right off the bat. $75 - $100 (doubling every time they're caught) AND select them for an on the spot security sweep of their belongings.
Fare evasion would drop. Quickly.
Not in this country
We can't be abusing security sweeps for punitive or criminal fishing-expedition purposes. That's a slippery slope that gets very bad very fast.
I'm with you on enforcement and significant fines, though.
Too late
If they can setup security checkpoints for every backpack and purse as a "training exercise" whenever they want, then they sure as hell have every ability to strip down a fare evader for "bombs". After all, maybe he didn't feel like paying because he wasn't planning on getting off of the train again in one piece...
I'd certainly feel less willing to pay if I wasn't going to use the entire train ride offered.
Actually, when I was using
Actually, when I was using Central consistently, they were pretty good about busting fare evaders, especially the ones sneaking in at the far end.
Free income to the T
Let's also remember that the MBTA gets free money every day when peopl eloose their Charlie Cards. There are likely hundreds lost daily or certainly weekly.
Despite promises to create an on-line payment system, or a way to register cards against theft or loss, that system is going on 2 years of promise with no implementation.
If you loose your Charlie Card, that's it... your money or pass is gone and that is free money to them.
I learned that the hard way having to buy a whole new pass.
Mind you... all the elements are in place. Each Charlie Card has a serial number. Each credit card transaction has a tracking number, and each tracking number is associated with the Charlie Card. Get a receipt and see for yourself. All the data is there to deactivate a lost card and transfer the value to a new one.
They simply don't have a system in place to do it. Or do they?
If you loose an elderly/handicap card (TAP Pass) they can transfer the value to a new one. The TAPS are the SAME AS A CHARLIE CARD and were used as a pilot program before the system went full plastic.
Somehow I am having a hard time seeing forward with all this wool over my eyes.
DMK
They really need to do
They really need to do something about the drivers just not collecting fares on the Green Line. On the E line (inbound) Friday night there were about 5 people at the stop, and the driver just covered up the farebox and waved everybody in. If it's rush hour and the train's jam-packed and there's a bunch of people waiting to get on, I can see the logic behind opening all doors. But there's no excuse to just not collect fares at any other time.
Farebox might've been broken
Recently on the Green Line (or maybe it was a bus), a driver let me in without paying because the machine wouldn't accept any of the dollar bills I tried. (He wouldn't let me hand him the bills, either.)
I might've broken it through karma...
I think it was on a bus earlier that same day that the machine wasn't crediting back change and the driver seemed to be looking around for something (a paper backup?) he couldn't find, so I told him no problem. And the other day I handed a driver a crumpled dollar that was on the floor in front of the farebox.
More to the point, I think the fareboxes have less than perfect reliability. Which is part of the reason why, when I advocate putting readers at every door, I discourage anything that requires printing receipts, dispensing mag-strip tickets, or accepting currency -- all create reliability and maintenance problems.
Or farebox not warmed up or something
Three or four weeks ago, a bus driver out of Forest Hills waved us all on because the farebox wasn't working.
I'm glad I don't work at
I'm glad I don't work at Central any more! Sick of being pushed to the side by people using my exit as their entrance. Also of sketchy people waiting at the 'small entrance' so that they could coattail on my fare. I've never had either of those events at any other station.
Solar flares
That'll do it.
neil v, you've identified one of the basic flaws in the
fareboxes - the fact they were designed to accept currency.
If T management was truly committed to the concept of a cashless fare collection system, they never would have included "must accept coins and dollar bills" as a design requirement for the fareboxes from the start.
Cash payment is necessary for buses
how else would they accommodate casual riders and people who star their trips in the middle of the route, not at a station (which I would guess, is most bus riders)?
Visitors, too. I've often ended up in a city while traveling and caught a ride to a friend's place in a car or taxi, the hopped onto a bus.
The only problem with the cash fare boxes is the jackass-designed coin slot that was not set into a depression so that coins could be poured in... my god, what were they thinking? Coins have to be perfectly fitted into the slot one by one - miss slightly, and your money is on the floor. Nice job.
Legal Tender
For all debts public and private.
Aside from that, there is the issue of how it is impossible to have a cashless system when you have such an antiquated clustercopulation as the T, which does not have any places to purchase anything outside of the central system? If they had fare validation like most cities, you could buy a ticket on the platform. If they had an enclosed and gated system, the transaction would take place at the gates.
As for the buses, I used to have great fun trying to get a bus pass when I never went into the city on the bus. Ditto for commuter rail passes and tickets.
Green Line and bus fare boxes can also reload smart cards
this is significant in that it allows every stop in every mode of transit to have charlie card re-loading capabilities, without installing fixed equipment all over town, which is just not practical.
The experienced-rider method is to board the bus, indicate to the driver that you're going to reload your card (show some cash), then step aside while everyone else boards. Once they're onboard, you reload your card as the driver resumes the route.
This works pretty well, though, as with many other things about the T, many or most people are not aware of this feature of the fare boxes.
However there will always be a need for cash fares on public transit as long as the public is supposed to be fully served*.
So, everyone who lives in Boston should get a free RFID Charlie Card the next time they're in a subway station that has them. Then just carry the car with a couple of dollars on it, enough for one ride... reload as needed at stations or on the bus.
---
* "fully served" to the limits of the transit system. For the T, that ain't much, but it's somethin'
Nice theory you got there
Ever tried it in practice? Like, really, tried to load a charlie card on a bus? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! Video it next time - it will be a major sensation "Man Manages to Reload Charlie Card Successfully On Bus".
Seriously, I've never seen it done, my sons have yet to reload theirs with any luck, and I've had no success myself.
Here is the usual "process" of T Stupidity: If the machine happens to be working that day - and that is a BIG IF - first note that there are no posted pictorial or written instructions provided (a local disease) - somehow, you are supposed to "memorize" this process by watching stuff on the website - can't have anything printed to refer to, or any recorded prompts! No! That would be so very 21st century. Next you get to use a process of trial and error to get it to start the process because the drivers simply can't communicate the process clearly and drive (or just can't anyway), and the machine expects that you "just know" what to do (a local disease programmed into an electronic widget) and will spit out the $20 charlie ticket less the full cash fare if you so much as hesitate for a 1/10th second while you vainly try to understand what the driver with the mouthful of whatever is sloppily and half-assedly saying without any logical sequence while using as many vague pronouns as possible.
Bonus points if there is a line of people to get on, or the bus is already late on the route and has to be in motion around a rotary.
IF the machine is working that day - again a BIG if on anything coming out of the Charlestown Garage.
And, yes, I did look at the website and you know what? It never works like that in real life - something always goes wrong somewhere even when the sequence is properly executed because they are pieces of shit - such as when it timed out of the charlie card load process during the "actively eating money" step. Seems that it didn't pull in and scan and process my $20 bill fast enough and spat out a charlie ticket less the cash fare. Not my error, just the sort of pure engineering stupid I have come to expect from the T. Coworkers have reported the exact same problem - they set the default times to be less than the time it takes to process the transaction so they can charge you the cash fare and spit out a ticket, or so it seems.
So I fill my charlie card at the T stations now - and swap them out for my son's card when his gets low because refilling them on the bus is simply not predictable or possible. Maybe your branch of the T actually maintains the stupid useless things?
I have loaded charlie cards on buses several times
Not the 1 bus, but the bus from Inman out to Porter or Harvard, also a crosstown bus, maybe a CT2, and definitley the Silver Line, which I consider a bus.
I already splained to you, that you show the cash, let the people on, and then fill the card once the bus is moving.
You are such a smartass in this response i wish i had a way to make it disappear from my screen.
Yes, I have added money to my charlie card on buses and also on the green line, I'm pretty sure...
Also, the first few times the drivers helped me.
So, I will be happy to be in your video.
I have also watched lots of other people do it. In fact, i got the idea to try it because I saw someone fill the card, after i'd gotten on and paid cash cuz my card was empty and i had cash and a card and no idea i could blend them together on the spot.
THe documentation, like everything involving "the T" and "Communicating useful information' is AFU, yes. In fact, the documentation is missing: adding money to a charlie car requires pressing the unlabeled white button to put the farebox into charlie card recharging mode, and from there the process is just like at a card machine except you don't tell it in advance how much you're adding
White button -> card charging mode
Tap card to log in
Put in some money
White button to indicate no more money is coing
Tap card to close transaction
Tap card to pay fare
I might have that 2nd white button press in the wrong spot. Yeah, the interface is crap. Simply could not be worse. The fare boxes are among the worst items of contemporary design that I have seen in the last decade.
However, if you would stop bitching for a second, and then cut out the maniacal laughter that pervades your note, maybe cut back the meds a little... i think you might just have it in you to make it work one magical time. And after the first time, well, the sky's the limit. You might even be able to show your kid how to do it, instead of teaching it that the world is all broken and let's just laugh at it and tell everyone how fucking superior we are standing here with our empty charlie cards because we just know it could never possibly work .
Once more for clarity
Read again: I know the "process", and I know it quite well, in fact.
However, knowing the process does not help when:
The whole farebox is not working (free express bus ride the other morning - wheee!)
The card load function of machine is out of order - which happens about 50% of the time on the buses that I ride
The machine times out repeatedly while you are in the middle of the process - this means starting over again and again or, if it has your money already, printing a charlie ticket
The machine times out when you are feeding in the money, even when it takes the cash on the first try and feeds smoothly
The machine times out when someone is feeding coins into it (seen that happen several times on the 93 - never tried coins myself)
The machine fails to reload your card properly at the end of the process, even when it goes BING, and spits out a charlie ticket less cash fare because "that's just what it is doing today" according to the driver
For the record: I had no problem getting my kids to reload their cards by themselves at Davis Station. I and they have had repeated equipment-related problems reloading them on the bus. Not so bad because they have gotten a lot of free rides that way - they show card and cash to load it if the machine was working, the driver knows they have boarded in good faith and waves them in.
Sorry if that conflicts with your sacred and special reality but OBSERVATION AND EXPERIENCE on buses coming from the Charlestown Garage negates your perfect world here. It is also the experience of coworkers and friends. I have NOT stood there insisting that it does not work with a "sense of superiority" (project much there much?) - I and others have REPEATEDLY EXPERIENCED these machines not working in one way or another.
I still don't know why I can't reload the kids or my cards over the web with a credit card. I can set them up for a coffee treat at Starbucks as a birthday or report card present that way.
p.s. I don't have to teach my boys that the T is broken and messed up. Not only have they ridden transit in other cities since they were quite young, on several occasions they have stood at a bus stop for nearly an hour waiting because the scheduled 94 bus that they were five to ten minutes early for was one of those "paper buses" that does not exist (my son wrote to Carl Sciortino about the problems).
Cash is king
I do like that the buses and streetcars can accept cash, though it doesn't have to be be part of the electronic fare box. A small old-school box for dropping in bills and coins, no change given, and a small paper receipt from a pad (no punches or anything fancy). The cash fare could be higher than electronic, like 1/4 to 1/3 more, to encourage electronic fare and offset some of the extra cost.
Alternatively, some other way someone can ride if they find they don't have a valid ticket/pass, rather than be stranded or miss their appointments or work. IOU? Old lady CharlieTicket scalper sitting near the door? Low-tech cash might be easiest.
The cash fare is already higher than the electronic fare
and it is a regressive tax, preying primarily on the poor and the under-educated, who tend not to aggressively pursue "extra work" that is in their best interest, if they even know about it...
I understand how it's expensive to be poor
The cash fares don't *have* to be higher, but in some ways that would make a lot of sense (and cents). I could be persuaded either way, by compelling arguments and numbers.
Tangential idea: one way to inform people of how to get the lower electronic fare is to have the back of the cash fare paper receipt tell them. I suspect we could find a way to accommodate people who are aware of the electronic fares but face practical barriers (e.g., getting to a station with machines, having time to get to a station, having cash at time they're at the station), such as in the location of machines, or by collaborating with existing social service organizations used by these people. Likewise for people with various recognized cognitive impairments. If there is anyone who, if I understand you correctly, doesn't face unusual barriers but who simply can't be bothered, then that is a different situation.
Then, of course, after you tentatively work out the details, you have to sanity-check the big picture. Solutions can cost more than problems. Simpler is usually better here.
Cash is about as simple as it gets
Anything that's not cash requires a conversion, and conversions introduce friction and new costs.
People are not good at making economically rational decisions. Those with less education don't even have the grounding to know where to begin. And if you're poor, or tired, or both, and working just to cover the rent and feed a kid or whatever your situation is -- listen when I say that if you're riding the bus, you're probably not doing it because you don't enjoy driving the new Audi in the city...
So, this kind of hidden tax preys on people who don't fight back, who don't learn how to work the damn charlie card recharge thingy, and of course on tourists. Should we care about tourists? I think so.
I also think that people are helping each other out. At intervals of a few months I've noticed that more and more people getting on buses and especially the silver line have Charlie Cards. I think the T were bastards to NOT push those cards very very aggressively (oh sure, they were out there on the RED LINE pimping the damned things)... People still didn't "get" that the ride would cost more, or that the cards could be filled with cash rather than credit, ESPECIALLY that they could be reloaded on the vehicle itself (HELLO OTHER DISCUSSION).. and so for a time the T was sucking money out of its poorest customers' pockets.
i believe once word got out, people helped each other get going with Charlie Cards. For my part, every time I went through downtown crossing i asked for a few blank cards, and have given them to friends around town who didn't have them... for example if we were entering a station together and the friend was about to buy a $2 ticket, i'd give them a card instead and say "put your $2 on this, and you'll still have money left after the ride".... they say "What!?" and then yer all set.
OK I have a solution to the reload-on-vehicles thing...make a separate device that's not a farebox, and stick it up on the wall like one of those paper towel dispensers in the public restroom... reload charlie cards there, not at the farebox, how bout it?
While we are on the subject of simplicity:
It's a damn shame that the card-load stations melt down if they can't get instant credit card authorizations. This is a crappy engineering decision. The likelihood of a CC fraud against the T is very low, and presumably the cards could be deactivated if linked ot a fraud, so the T would be out very little... Compared to the lost time waiting for auths, and the inconvenience when things are not working, this is a horrible design. maybe it's been changed...
Cash fare paper receipt?
I am not aware of any "cash fare paper receipt" on the MBTA. The only paper receipt I know of, that is worth having, is the paper transfer on SF MUNI that magically gets you a free ride back in the other direction for the price of one fare, should you want to avail yourself...
Also at the time I felt the T was not particularly interested in helping people save money. if it had been, then the ads would have said "Don't spend $2.00 for a $1.70 fare! Get a Charlie Card today from any of our pleasant, slender, and happy station agents!"
But they didn't say that. Instead, the T posted those massive pricing grids and confused the crap out of people. I feel sad every time I see a family outside the gates buying tickets rather than RFID-card reloads, for trips at the penalty cash price. 4 x $0.30 has got to add up after a while, not to mention those who don't know that kids under 12 can ride free "with an adult"
see back thattaway
I proposed a simple paper receipt as part of a low-tech, high-reliability way of supporting cash.
More to the point, I think
What would be the point of that? People would just walk right past them without scanning their cards.
Multi-component solution
I don't want to sketch out the social and enforcement components of the solution (there's some research I'd have to do first), but assuming that works out as I expect, then an electronic-only machine at each door is probably the way to go.
So?
They do that now already. What's your point? If they put in scanners at every door and people *did* scan their fare, we'd already be in a winning scenario for having installed them.
Compliance of only 1 person who got on at the back door without going to the front and paid their fare at a back door reader would validate the system. You don't think even *ONE* person would use it?
That won't pay for it
one person using the machine won't really covered the costs, so you've validated nothing except that the person who would have honestly gone to the front now honestly went to the back, and you've run up a huge huge tab to make the point.
matter of fact i have no idea what you're trying to advocated for in any of your postings on this subject.
weren't you wanting to execute fare evaders or something? Should people who have no money (truly) be allowed to ride public transit for free?
Im jumping in late... I saw
Im jumping in late...
I saw someone mention fare boxes and coins. It is a nightmare. It used to be that you could take a handful of coins and dump them into the box and it would figure it out really fast. Sometimes the box would jam up, but that was when they went to far between shifts, and had not emptied the box. This only really happened in the poor areas and should have been a sign for the people in charge. These new machines, as stated before, take one coin at a time, which is rather maddening if you ask me.
I have a homework assignment for anyone who does not think this is a big deal. Take a bus in a poor part of town and see how long it takes people to board, and who is boarding. My favorite is Lynn, where you have many buses and a depot, and some buses are crowded while others are not. You have kids, elderly, immigrants, drunks, college kids, and crazy people entering the buses. Many of these people can not afford 20 dollars a pop, and most likely pulled their fare out of the couch that morning, or got it from a parent/friend because its raining and they do not want to walk. Stop trying to educate them on the power of the Charlie Card and just give them the damn coin feeder back so we can all get where we are going on time.