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She sees something, she says something and the T does nothing
By adamg on Sat, 07/11/2009 - 6:36pm
Remember this the next time you go through one of the T's bag screenings: Betsy reports that when she got on the Blue Line at Government Center on Friday, she saw an unattended bag under the seat across from her. After years of being barraged with post-9/11 warnings, she reported the bag to the driver. Who proceded to do absolutely nothing. She couldn't stand it, so she got off the train at Aquarium, just in case. And then she called the MBTA safety department, which, when she finally got through, did nothing.
... I am disappointed. I am not happy. And you owe not only me an apology, but you owe an apology to every person who was on that Blue Line train yesterday headed to Wonderland at 3:00 p.m. You compromised not only my security, but that of each passenger and employee on that train and the stations, and you compromised the security of Boston. ...
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Comments
The driver responded
The driver responded perfectly.
"He said, ‘ok, I’ll have someone look into it."
And there's no indication that he didn't keep his word. Whats he supposed to do, shut down the blue line because some poor guy forgot his things on the train?
I hate that Betsy buys into those stupid warnings. What she should have done is take the bag with her at government center and hand it to the attendant there so they could stick it in the lost and found.
How many bags are accidentally forgotten on the T or elsewhere on a given day? And how many of those bags have turned out to be dangerous? We get a couple of stores a month of the police blowing up some poor briefcase. How many times have they blown up something dangerous? Im going to say zero.
if a terrorist does one day decide to waste his time on the T, "say something" wont stop it. However, maybe taking the bag to the lost and found would have made it easier for the person who lost it to get it back.
In an ideal world, sure
And in an ideal world, the BPD bomb squad wouldn't be called in to blow up suitcases every time some zoned-out Berklee student or professor leaves one in front of the school.
But the fact is that MBTA General Manager Dan Grabauskas and his police chief are on the PA all the time warning us that if we see something we must say something. And the MBTA cops in the full battle regalia with the dogs are everywhere scanning bags for explosives.
They've won. They've succeeded in turning us into sheep. But if they're going to do that, then they have to pay more attention to their own damn messages. And yes, shut the Blue Line down until the bomb squad detonates some lady's evening dress from Macy's.
They've won?
Dammit! That sucks.
We'll get 'em next century, gang.
Security theater
Shouldn't we be less upset at the MBTA for giving "unattended baggage" exactly the attention it deserves, and more upset with them for the turning-us-into-sheep part?
Unattended baggage was only a risk until (a) terrorists were willing to kill themselves with the bombs or (b) bombs became small enough that they didn't have to be disguised as baggage. I think we've hit both marks now.
It sounds like you're arguing that yes, of course, the security theater is pointless, but dammit, we need to be afraid anyway because if we're not filled with terror, the terrorists win.
Somehow.
The random searches...
...are bogus and anti-American.
People will complain on blogs and whatnot, but when it comes down to personally being subjected to it, everyone just needs to get where they're going, and they see everyone else submitting, so they submit.
Eventually someone will not submit but will tell them "this is wrong" or "you're a bad American" or something, and some idiot who happens to be in uniform will then use unwarranted force, there will be a lawsuit, and then maybe that particular abuse will be halted.
In the meantime, there will be a hundred new incursions on foundations of America, pushed forward by the stupid and the ill-intentioned in positions of power, and tolerated by the citizens.
I think that the Bostonians we saw in the B&W filmstrip earlier today would not have tolerated this.
The fact that "MBTA General
The fact that "MBTA General Manager Dan Grabauskas and his police chief are on the PA"warning us doesnt mean anything. Maybe they think its actually important, maybe theyre doing it because its a political move. We all know if a terrorist attack hits, both of them will be first in line for when the blame is ready to be handed out, so they might as well try to cover their ass by pretending do be doing something.
But again, that doesnt mean they actually think the campaign will ever work. And why should the staff think itll work? If a terrorist wanted to blow up a train, he might as well do it in the winter when he can wear a giant coat and then strap as much bomb on himself as possible. From memory, all the last mass transit bombings have be suicide attacks, so looking for a forgotten backpack wont help.
I think its more likely any one of us will die because of a derailment or train crash than a bomb. After all, count up the number of T fatalities. Now note how many were caused due to terrorism.
I have seen lost bags being
I have seen lost bags being inspected and removed on the MBTA. From what I have seen, the operator radios in the report and the next inspector along the line gets on the train, looks for the object and removes it if something is found. I assume they are trained to try and figure out what objects might require the bomb squad and which ones should just go to lost and found. The woman reported the incident at State, once a train leaves State, there is usually an inspector at Maverick, two stops away (there is also usually one at Government Center, the stop before). She was upset that nothing was done by Aquarium, one stop away. She really doesn't know that "nothing was done". Perhaps the bag did take a ride unattended all the way to Wonderland, but I bet there is a good chance the Maverick inspector got the radio call and looked for the object when the train arrived. I know they tape all of the radio calls into their central control. If she really presses the point, she should be able to find out if the train operator did radio in the report and if the Maverick inspector did radio back if something was found.
I agree. What she is saying
I agree. What she is saying is that the only acceptable response would be a massive overreaction. Forgotten luggage is probably very common on the line to/from the airport. She fails to consider that MBTA personnel have far more experience with gauging what is threatening and unusual than she does. It is not as if she got no response at all. It sounds like what she wanted was a congratulations and/or a spectacle. The MBTA is already wasting resources on its silly random bag inspections. I'm actually pleased that this incident wasn't turned into a "Die Hard" film set by MBTA police.
Interesting comments -- interesting perspectives
I'd like to comment on your assumptions above. You said that:
1. I am saying that the only acceptbale response would be a massive overreaction.
If I had wanted an overreaction, I would have pointed it out publicly on the full train. THAT would have garnered reaction and fed my ego's requirement for fame and glory.
2. You say that I fail to consider the MBTA's experience dealing with these things.
Are you kidding me? It is because I recognize the knowledge and experience of the nation's transit systems that I respected their constant requests to report unattended bags. I did as they asked!
3. You say that you think I am wanting congratulations or a spectacle?
Wrong again. If I wanted that, I would have created that. But I spoke to no one but the MBTA driver, specifically because 1, I considered it to be most probably a non-event, and 2, there was no need to bring attention and potential worry to the car full of passengers.
Now -- to comment on a few other's comments here -- and thank you for your perspectives, even those that call me a fool.
The whole point of post 9/11 security checks is "What If". That's the reason we have all the security. This is the reason we have been asked as citizens to be diligent. This was not necessary 20 years ago. But today it is our life.
The easy thing, and 'sheep'-ish thing truly would have been to sit there and do nothing. I could have closed my eyes, tuned out, and waited until my stop.
But I am not oblivious.
I am not obilivious to the world that we live in and the true potential of a terrorist act happening in our city.
Do I think that these types of security searches will stop all potential attacks? No, I don't. But I do think it serves to create awareness and raise levels of perception so that people no longer consider themselves simply bystanders in life, and realize that they are actually participants.
We choose our level of involvement and our level of responsibility. My choice was to respect the MBTA's pleas for diligence and appropriate follow through. It is unfortunate that the MBTA driver chose not to consider my notification one that warranted a slight train delay for security. I have seen drivers delay trains for many reasons and this would have been no less important.
For those who would say that the bag should have been given to the MBTA so its owner could be contacted...how about the driver taking that quick delay and locating that bag and doing just that?
The driver DID NOT know what kind of bag it was. That's the point. He did not check. Nor did anyone else at the next stop.
And to the person who said that there would have been transit police at Maverick...well, here's a little sarcasm for you, and a bit of good info for a terrorist...I guess it's ok to leave a bag on the train after Government Center, because no one is going to look until Maverick. Never mind that the train just drove under the Boston Harbor.
How quickly people forget the world we live in. We don't just live in post 9/11 where planes were used as bombs. We live in post Oklahoma city. We live in post Centennial 'Olympic' Park - Atlanta where a security guard doing HIS job reports an unattended bag that DOES contain explosives and he is persecuted by the media, public and federal agencies for just doing his job!
The U.S. is fortunate that it has not had toxic gases and suicide bombers on its trains and busses. However, to think that we are somehow immune and that it will not happen in the United States is naieve. It has happened, and it will happen.
The whole point wasn't that I truly thought there was something in the bag. The point is that the MBTA asks us daily to be diligent and report things. I did that, and they fell short on their end. It IS the whole 'what if' scenario. That's the point.
Call me a sheep if you must, but I am most undoubtedly the black one.
Given the existence of emergency response...
...and the reality that on a very rare occasion it actually will be a life-threatening situation for people in the car, I think she did the right thing by reporting it and not touching it.
If MBTA didn't handle the situation properly (I don't have enough info to say for sure), then they need corrective action.
Less Attention on Forgotten Bags
And more attention to texting / inattentive T - drivers.
Methinks that might be the solution.
And, really? There's still people out there who think that an unattended bag might be, could be a bomb? I need to get my bridge offer ready for these people.
I don't know much, but I'm fairly confident about one thing. If and when a terrorist or anyone else decides to hit our city, it's not going to be done by putting a bomb in a bag and leaving it alone on public transportation.
/headslap
I think...
...that you're mistakenly fairly confident about one thing.
I'm not going to go into why I think that's a plausible scenario, but I'm curious where you're getting your information.
Has there ever been a
Has there ever been a terrorist attack on mass transit via an unattended bag? London was suicide, and Madrid and Mumbai were hidden explosives (not in some backpack).
London
Post-war London has had quite a bit more than one terrorist attack:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_inc...
Including unattended package bombs on the subway system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_the_London...
But really, I'm surprised that anyone wouldn't realize that nasty-unattended-package-on-mass-transit is plausible scenario, just by reasoning from first principles rather than having to look to historical precedent.
I've stated what I think is obvious to someone who stops to think about it, without going into logistics or how this might compare to other vulnerabilities.
For each of us, the chance that we will be an immediate victim of a terrorist act in Boston is almost zero. And we'll further lower that probability for ourselves -- and our traveling companions in a subway car -- if, when spotting an unattended package, we follow procedure and notify MBTA rather than touch it ourselves.
2004 Madrid train bombings
The 2004 Madrid train bombings were carries out using bombs hidden in backbacks left on the trains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bom...
While I do think that the MBTA has overplayed its hand with their security theater, I have lived in places where bombings have been all too common and can understand the concern that an abandoned package can stimulate. Thankfully, these types of attacks have not yet arrived in America. Given the ease of carrying out these bombings, I am surprised we have not yet seen them.
a diagram
the people rushing to the "OMG THESE SEARCHES ARE ILLEGAL AND STUPID" conclusion are missing the point.
regardless of whether they're legal or not, they're here. there are annoying announcements over the tannoy about them regularly. so they might as well actually serve a purpose.
here. here's a simple diagram.
ANNOUNCEMENTS | NO ANNOUNCEMENTS SEARCHING 2 | 3 NOT SEARCHING 4 | 1we can all agree that the numbers above are in order of most-to-least preferential, no? the ideal solution would be no searching and no announcements, followed by searching, but with announcements, which is preferable to searches without any warning whatsoever.
all those, however, are preferable to being constantly annoyed and reminded about the utter breakdown of your civil rights without anything to show for it. at least when the grocery store tracks my purchases, i get some damn coupons out of it.
No
The searches are unacceptable, and some degree of the announcements are appropriate (though they overdo it, and the MBTA has little credibility).
Grocery purchase tracking has virtually nothing to do with civil rights/liberties, by the way, except for one prominent incident. And it's not important from an information privacy perspective, IMHO, except for being one of several slippery-slope precedents.
bags
It's a relief to know that nothing serious happened. BUT that in itself could be part of a desensitizing process by terrorists. Oh, it's nothing. Just a bag. We've seen dozens, even hundreds of these.
The Boy Who Cried Wolf. There's no wolf.
Then the wolf arrives, and nobody listens.
.... are you
....
are you serious?
/facepalm
calm down, lady.
That woman really seems like she could use a good stiff drink.
1600 words? About how the MBTA turned you into a hyper-paranoid sheep and then did nothing when you told them about something of no real consequence?
I'm about to fall asleep after reading that boring post. Wake me up when America stops turning into East Germany.
I wouldn't have bothered the driver at all
I'd just take the bag to the station agent and ask them to forward it to Lost & Found.
Ron, a question
Hypothetically, suppose that the MBTA had a reputation for being exceptionally well-run, including being intelligent and honest in all their communications...
In this imaginary universe, if the MBTA were to start instructing people to be careful to report unattended packages and not to touch the packages... would follow that instruction?
I'm tired of leftover Republican paranoia
and don't understand why it has persisted into 2009. We can't forever be overreacting to (largely unrelated) events that happened 8 years ago.
OK, thanks
If I understand correctly, even if the MBTA otherwise had a stellar reputation, you would still assume that this particular measure was not necessary.
I'm trying to understand the impact that the MBTA's lousy reputation has on *actual* safety. Whether or not the unattended bags thing is valid, someday the MBTA might need people to listen to them in an emergency, and I'm not sure that many people will.
I should add
I think I'm fully in agreement with you on the neocon propaganda. There was a lot of of lying at the top, and it's unclear how far down you had to go before you had people dealing intelligently, sanely, and honestly with any actual threats.
I also think that most of our publicly-visible anti-terrorism measures are ineffectual and are in other regards counterproductive (e.g., unconstitutional or fearmongering).
I'm also a socio-technical systems person, and I like carefully-designed processes. I do think there's value to having publicly-visible anti-terrorism measures on the T limited to asking people report abandoned packages and "suspicious" things, and to otherwise *not worry about it*. It's a very small burden on society (at least, if you cut back on those stupid announcements and lighten the tone of them), and is a source of potentially high-value information, with the public's part abstracted away from whatever complex and adaptive system we have for responding.
Whether the MBTA actually does the right thing once it has that potentially high-value information is another question. Externally, they appear to have very little credibility.
I'm glad that you feel
I'm glad that you feel comfortable picking up a bag that may contain God only knows what and then carry it a distance before handing it over to someone. The first lesson taught by members of the bomb squad is "Don't touch it." Many people have been maimed or lost their lives by picking up explosives so they could turn them in to the authorities. They thought they were doing the right thing. Unfortunately they weren't.
oh, that was my bag, sorry.
oh, that was my bag, sorry.
It's about credibility
If the T wants its safety program to be taken seriously, ANYONE who files a report should be treated with respect and courtesy.
I wish that we didn't have to worry about an unattended bag on the subway. I wish that we didn't need power tools to open a bottle of pain reliever because some slimebag spiked the Tylenol a few decades ago. But that's the way things are, and if the T is going to have a credible safety program, its response should not provoke posts like Betsy's.
hard-to-open pill bottles
I though that had more to do with child-proofing (Tylenol overdoses can cause liver failure) than with that one-of-a-kind incident decades ago.
multi-seals and tamper-resistant packages
It was the Tylenol situation that triggered the original wave of multiple package seals and tamper-resistant packaging.
In any event, point is that all too often it's been one horrific event that frames prevention policy and practice for decades to come....