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Let Boston bars stay open until 4 a.m., he says

But instead of booze in those new hours, only let them serve food - and work with private bus companies to provide transportation to local colleges and key locations, Lawrence Harmon argues.

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FTA: Somewhere in this sea of backward baseball caps, skimpy tops, and sausage vendors lurk serious public policy considerations.

So that's the new euphemism for drunken frat guys these days? Sausage vendors?

Huh, learn something new every day.

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I loved the boston.crazy commenter expressing concern at the clothing of the "three virgins" in the picture.

Trust me, they're no virgins.

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I take it...

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I like to vend my sausage to the faneuil hall broads, if you know what I'm sayin

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when sausage is your only option for a post drunken snack no wonder there is so much chaos

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Four reasons why Harmon's proposal doesn't make a wit of sense:

  1. The Seventh Inning Rule: Ever been to a game at Fenway? The ballpark works a variant of this system, cutting off the sale of alcohol after the seventh inning, giving fans a little while to sober up before the hit the road. And fans, in consequence, stream into the bowels of the park, and return to their seats each clutching a pair of beers. That's because at Fenway, two beers is as much alcohol as any one fan can buy at a time. But that's not true in a bar. It's not my scene. But if I were intent on partying all night, I'd have the barkeep line up a row of shots at 1:55AM, and keep on going as long as I wanted. All you can do is bar the further sale of alcohol - you can't keep people from finishing the drinks they already have. Worse, there's good evidence that 'limited time' offers spur consumers to overpurchase - they buy as much as they can imagine wanting, not as much as they want right then. So you end up with people tanking up, stockpiling drinks, and generally bingeing. Thanks, but no thanks.
  2. Supply and Demand: Harmon complains that Boston lacks late-night transit. And his solution to this very real problem is to keep the bars open even longer after the T shuts down? More to the point, he posits that private companies may capitalize on the market by ferrying customers home. But even if that would work - and its not clear that consumers want it or the city would allow it - it would rely on aggregating demand. If all the bars shut down at the same time, spilling their customers into the streets, there are enough passengers to run a business. Stagger departures over a couple of hours, and it gets much, much harder to make that work.
  3. Speakeasies: We know that Senator Galluccio (apparently) got himself in trouble by emerging incredibly drunk from a restaurant hours after its liquor license ran out for the night. The proprietor says he was just eating - good luck selling that story. The reality is that if there's alcohol behind the bar, some customers are going to find a way to get it. At best, you're going to need a wide-ranging enforcement operation. At worst, you add on another two hours of unsanctioned drinking.
  4. The 24-hour diner: Most of these problems could be avoided if people were genuinely interested in what Harmon asserts they are - having a salty snack, sobering up, and then heading up later on. That's what diners are for - and they have the added benefit of not serving alcohol. Wouldn't it make sense to clone the South Street Diner a dozen times, rather than license bars to operate even later into the night? And since we have almost no 2AM dining options, what does that say about the market demand Harmon assumes is there?

Now, I don't have a seat on the Globe's Editorial board. But from where I do sit, this proposal is just plain wrong. You can mandate an earlier closing hour. You can extend T service on weekends, footing the substantial bill as the price of public safety. You can attempt to offer other outlets - like late-night diners - to absorb the bar patrons being turned out on to the street. But at the end of the night, "someone's daughter" will still be passed out in the gutter. The problem here is excessive and irresponsible drinking, and tinkering with closing times won't solve that - in fact, it's likely to make it worse.

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Great response. Bostonians need to cultivate other qualities of attraction in themselves besides boozing.

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1) Yeah, some people might abuse that, but I don't think most will. People can and do the same before 2am.....they take shots at 1:55 and get pushed out at 2am. isnt it better to take the shots at 1:55 and then have an hour for it to wear off?

2) The problem currently is that everybody is kicked out at 2am, and there is not transportation. try getting a cab at that hour. By extending the time people get out, you allow the cabs to do more runs. Further, 4am is just 30 minutes away from the start of bus service.

3) No difference from now. What's to stop a bar closing at 2am but still operating beyond that "amongst friends". As you said, it happens now.

4) The fact that there are so few options after 2am says NOTHING about market demand. It says a lot about the licensing board however. Search around this website and youll find a LOT of stories about restaurants who want to extend their hours but are not allowed to. I'm going to take a guess and say that the mcdonalds in kenmore square does not close at 11pm every day because of their own choice.

The biggest problem with the 2am last call AND closing is that it is early, so most people stay until that time and then everybody gets kicked out together. It pushes out a lot of people onto narrow sidewalks and increases the amount of fights.

That being said, I'd like a last call of 2:30am and closing at 3am.

Why not extend the hours as a test in a certain area? Pick one: theater district, fenway park area or quincy market area. Count the number of fights before and after.

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I think you hit all the right points. Everyone flooding streets at 2am is absurd and dangerous. My proposal would be:
1) After midnight T runs until 3am with service every 30 minutes on each line, maybe more on the green line and red line north to serve the higher student populations. This could be limited to Thursday-Sunday even, maybe 2am during the week?

2) No alcohol in your possession after 2am. Food can be served until close.

3) Bars / Clubs can be licensed to be open until 4am.

This would also stagger those who just want to drink from those who need transportation from those that want to stay up and play all night.

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But if I were intent on partying all night, I'd have the barkeep line up a row of shots at 1:55AM, and keep on going as long as I wanted. All you can do is bar the further sale of alcohol - you can't keep people from finishing the drinks they already have. Worse, there's good evidence that 'limited time' offers spur consumers to overpurchase - they buy as much as they can imagine wanting, not as much as they want right then. So you end up with people tanking up, stockpiling drinks, and generally bingeing. Thanks, but no thanks.

San Francisco has a few clubs that are open until 4 a.m. (and one that's open 24 hours). California enforces a no alcohol after 2 a.m. rule. The bouncers will go around the club starting around 1:45 usually, and literally grab drinks from the customers' hands and throw them out. I assume that is similar to what Boston would do. The law (at least in California) is not that the bar cannot serve alcohol after 2, but rather that the customers cannot consumer alcohol on the bar's premises after 2. This places the burden on the bar to prevent customers from having alcohol after 2.

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At least based on the licensing-board hearings I've been to - even if liquor isn't involved (there was one involving a pizza place that got caught with people still inside after closing; the board told the owner she had to start moving people out before closing time to make sure nobody was left inside).

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I used to dance at a club in D.C. that was usually open till 3 or 4 a.m. (Or later, if the DJ felt like it. Sometimes they'd reopen the grill for breakfast.)

Last call was 1:45, and I never saw anyone hoarding drinks. It certainly wasn't because of the club's straight-edge, law-abiding atmosphere. Maybe the bartenders scooped up the drinks as mentioned elsewhere, or maybe folks just moved on to other substances after 2. Either way, your game-theoretic supposition didn't hold.

And no, it wouldn't make more sense to open up a bunch of diners for the same reason it wouldn't make sense to allow bars to operate with no bathrooms, but build lots of public bathrooms nearby. People are at the bar. They want to stay at the bar. Again, yes, the diners are functionally equivalent. Again, people don't behave like a mathematical model.

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Montreal has a drinking age of 18. Clubs are open pretty late, as I recall.

How does that all work out for them? Do they have less of a drunk student party problem in neighborhoods? Do they have less binge drinking landing youths in the hospital? Fights and arrests for drunken stupidity? How late does the transit run?

This is a real city that isn't all that much different than Boston in many important ways - what can we learn from them? From other cities? Why reinvent the wheel when the laboratory is out there?

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The cold saps all the aggression out of their skinny cigarette-smoking bodies.

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But not OUR aggression?

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Montreal is one of the world's elite cities. We should absolutely do everything that they do.

Well, except for that whole losing the baseball team thing.

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Don't drive anything nice into Montreal; you won't drive it out. Hint: what do you get when you combine lots of out-of-province and out-of-country tourists with their nice cars, with a lazy police force, with a major international shipping port?

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The point is to not do things that don't work.

That, and to figure out things that do work that have been tried and tested. No need for odd dream schemes and rube goldberg urban planning initiatives if some other city like yours has been there, done that, and racked up some statistics on how well it went.

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Went to one bar called the Chicago Bar over on Stanley with my junior classmates, who were a shade under 18. One of our classmates got into a discussion with a native, and when I came back from one of their convenience stores, the place was destroyed. One girl had to be taken to the hospital for glass shards in her head; a lot of people were upset and shaken.

The clubs are OK, but nothing to write home about. Typical dress-to-impress venues.

The best thing about MTL was their transit. Absolutely clean, easy to navigate; the metro ends around 1am but night buses pick up the slack until 5am. Our hotel was three blocks away from Lucien L'Allier over on Argyle, and the Route 165 bus on Rene-Levesque stopped at our door. I would go there again just to hear the sound of the trains taking off.

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Providence RI is currently crafting staggered closing hours and will probably pilot it soon with a few licenses. Nothing like a little competition for a state to be motivated.
The Mass General Law's regarding alcohol sales include that: the maximum drinks a patron may have in front of them is two; the latest "last call" can be given is 15 minutes before your official closing time; all drinks must be cleared 30 minutes after official closing time; patrons must be out 30 minutes after closing time and employees ( owners too) must be out one hour after official closing time. These need to be enforced with or without staggered hours.
So the existing MGL's that could remain include the 2 drink maximum, last call time, and alcoholic drinks being cleared.
I'd also want to see better training for door/security people. RI just instituted a mandatory 7 hour training for all "floor people".

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Many beer bars serve flights of four or more two-ounce-or-so beers to taste. Is that four drinks or less than one drink that's just split among multiple containers?

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A drink is commonly understood to mean a serving with around .6 oz of alcohol in it. This would be, on average, a 12 oz beer, a 5 oz glass of wine, or 1.5 oz of hard alcohol.

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Tufts gave it a shot, but the drivers eventually refused to transport so many drunken indiots:

http://www.tuftsdaily.com/2.5511/boston-shuttle-ca...

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