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The people who have no clue they actually live in Boston
By adamg on Tue, 05/18/2010 - 9:13am
OK, this is going back to aquapocalypse days, but Maureen Rogers is still marvellling at the debate that broke out in a forum on A Certain Newspaper site over whether people who live in Allston and Brighton were affected by the boil-water order because the published lists mentioned Boston, but not Allston or Brighton. One person even swore Brighton was its own town because it has its own police department:
How can you be a sentient adult, aware enough of the world outside of yourself to make comments in online forums, and not know where you live?
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Comments
Brighton/Allston
It seems to be some what pervasive. My parents grew up in Brighton and when I asked my mother what it was like to grow in Boston, etc, she would comment that she grew up in Brighton and not Boston as if it was not part of the city.
Did she literally mean,
Did she literally mean, "Brighton isn't a part of Boston," though, or was it more like, "Living in Brighton really didn't feel like living in the city"? I certainly understand the latter attitude; many places in Boston feel more like suburbs. But to literally not know what city you live in? That's pretty bad.
I bet a lot of these people are college students or recent grads who aren't very involved with the community--for instance, they're probably not registered voters. If they were, they'd know what city they were registered in. I hope.
Probably the doesn't feel
Probably the doesn't feel like Boston. They would go "into the city" to shop etc but Brighton, to her, was not the city.
If the students own cars
they will get an annual excise tax bill from the city of Boston (not the city of Brighton).
If the students own cars ...
And have registered them in Massachusetts!
Ditto for kids in Allston/Brighton who have parking permits (which they can't get without registering their cars here).
There were also comments from
There were also comments from someone in Charlestown who didn't think they lived in Boston.
I also heard someone say they personally live in Somerville and they think it's part of Boston.
I can't believe it either.
Ask them two questions
1. Who is your mayor?
2. Why are Boston Police patrolling your neighborhood?
That should make them think a little.
re: #2
In the linked blog she points out that they had an answer for that (AND they acted as if it defended exactly what they were saying).
According to the moron arguing that Brighton isn't part of Boston, the cop cars all say "Brighton Police", so clearly they're in Brighton otherwise the cars would say Boston Police (which they actually do).
*headslap*
There's just no convincing that level of stupid.
Happened here too
There was a similar subthread here, in the main Aquapocalypse thread:
http://www.universalhub.com/2010/greater-boston-as...
I don't get it either - I grew up in Allston and have known all my life that Allston was part of Boston.
Attention: people are idiots
And the concentration of idiocy seems higher in student-heavy neighborhoods. The recent crop of college graduates I've talked to for entry-level positions at my company seem barely literate: the time they should have spent reading books, they appear to have spent playing videogames. That they would not know the first thing about their local government is utterly unsurprising. Too bad it's a fallen world.
Once had a girl from Hull
Once had a girl from Hull vehemently insist that I didn't live in Boston (I live in Dorchester). Being able to put Boston, MA on my mailing address, the U. of Mass BOSTON and the BOSTON Globe being a few blocks from my house, Google Maps, the Welcome to BOSTON signs were all according to her incorrect.
I think I severely brained my damage through that conversation.
You know what though....
Let's say you lived in Brooklyn, NY and there was a reported water problem with the New York City water supply. If you weren't actually from the New York City or Brooklyn you might ask the question whether or not Brooklyn was effected by the New York City water system right?
You might not be as clueless to think there was a Brooklyn Police Department, but a question about the water source might not be that out of line.
Good comparison. The problem
Good comparison. The problem is that few american cities have distinc neighborhoods in the way NYC and Boston do. DC has a similar problem, people think Anacostia is a different city because it has its own name.
Take Miami....Miami itself is TINY. If you're able to give your area a secondary name....than you're in a different city (Doral, Coral Gables, Miami beach etc etc).
Not true
Most American cities have distinct neighborhoods. Boston is somewhat unusual in that people seem to think that their distinct neighborhoods have walls around them.
You know what doesn't help?
Brookline (and to lesser extent Cambridge, Somerville, and Newton).
thanks for the daily bashing of the locals
Having lived in several cities across the U.S., it's my experience that denizens of city neighborhoods are very well aware of where they live, its particular characteristics and are pretty loyal to their areas. In this respect, Boston isn't really all that much different from L.A., NYC, Chicago, etc. Sorry we can't all live in one big happy homogeneous Ikea-bland world as you would seem to prefer.
Apparently "Several Cities Across the US"
= Worcester and Somerville in your case, at least if you think "not wanting to beat up those other guys from that other neighborhood just because they ain't us" = "IKEA bland".
Neighborhoods of Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, Porland, SanFrancisco and LA all have distinct "personalities" too. But the people who live in healthy cities also understand that people actually move around during their lifetimes, people live and work in different areas and that means needing transit and services, that neighborhoods have to change and grow to stay vibrant, and that all ages are needed to keep things economically stable.
There is a difference between having a healthy neighborhood identity and celebrating pathologic mass xenophobia.
No offense, but have you ever
No offense, but have you ever lived in Boston? Your statements imply that you have not, and that your strongest understanding of our neighborhoods come from outdated literature. What you describe in L.A. is, for the most part, how people are in Boston. But rather than saying this, perhaps I should just claim you are wrong about L.A. because every corner is another gang's territory, and you'll be shot crossing into it or even if you live there but are wearing the wrong color. That's the same level of ignorance you are expressing. So I'll agree with anon here, and say, "thanks for bashing the locals." That's a mighty big chip, how does it fit on your folding bike?
Broad brush maybe, but...
I do live in Boston, and have lived in other cities, and I agree that there's a certain attitude unique to here with regards to never straying from one's neighborhood, neighborhoods not needing to ever change, etc.
Twenty six years
Eight in Boston proper.
I used to be amused by the silly "I live in a small town surrounded by a mote and millions of people" behavior, now I'm just disgusted when I see how much has been done in other cities in that last quarter century to make them livable and vibrant while the Boston area stagnates from neighborhood infighting, patronage, a misplaced belief that mausoleums make great neighborhoods, and fundamental lack of systematic planning.
I think the next census is going to be interesting .
I have to agree
Though I've been here since 1993 (full time since 1996), I still have my outsider's perspective. But many people won't listen to me because I'm an outsider.
Since moving to Lynn, I've had better luck. It has a downtown consisting almost entirely of new outsiders, and some great open-minding people in Lynn's other neighborhoods have been very encouraging. That's not to say insular behaviors and closed-mindedness isn't an obstacle there...but progress has been made already.
You and Swirly are both
You and Swirly are both posting anecdotal bits of evidence. In her case, I'm almost certain it is colored by a particular anti-Boston bias that she exhibits whenever an opportunity presents. I too did not grow up here, but have lived in various Boston neighborhoods over two decades. I've never come across what she describes. What I do see is people caring about the local. That does not mean walling off the rest. In my opinion, much that is good starts in this way. I want my neighborhood to have the things I desire, the restaurants, parks, stores, and cultural activities. When activists work toward that goal, it doesn't mean we can't be bothered with the larger metro.
I can't find fault in that
HenryAlan, of course I can't elaborate entirely on my life's experience in New England in a single UH comment. And I also have to agree that a lot of good can come out of people caring about the local. I'm president of my neighhborhood association and I run a hyper-local site for my community.
There's a difference between caring and obstructing/rejecting change, however, and sometimes I think people get those things confused.
I've gone to thousands of local meetings in Boston, and the 'burbs (work related), and I currently record and post videos of Lynn City Council. It is wearisome to hear at both meetings and on local web sites comments such as:
"Why do we need..." Fine, but is there harm in actually having it?
"Nobody has any business being..." I'm sorry, but nobody has any business telling me what my business is.
"That's the way it's always..." You don't like improvements? Fear change, even for the good? You don't want more businesses adding to the tax rolls?
"If you don't like it, go home.." Is this your dictatorship?
"It'll never change.." It's always changed and will continue to change even if you slow it down.
"Downtown will always be a dump.." You like it that way?
"You young elitists..." Sorry? I didn't resort to name calling. And I didn't talk down to anyone. I have ideas - where are your ideas?
"I've lived in (insert place here) my whole life.." (preceding public hearing comments) But you still only get one vote.
I'm being polite in leaving some things out...and I wish I could just shrug them off as silly commentary but these same people are voting and attending these meetings.
and...dare I say where I'm from, some will tune me out completely because they carry their sports grudges into all aspects of their lives. I don't even follow sports and I have to preface things with "I'm not a Yankees fan." Sheesh.
mediaseth
You are right about all those things you listed that people say. However, for every person you have saying those things, you have another person who acts like a wackjob and has nothing better to do than get involved with local politics and push their worthless opinions on everyone. I also have lived in a few towns and have seen these town/neighborhood meetings. I always got the impression that there are extremes on both sides.
Now, the percentage of people who actually get inolved/care/vote is sadly on the small side. That being said, the people who do care are often people that have nothing better to do but talk about how they want to change everything.
I'm not saying you are one of those wackjobs, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
Pete
I've seen that too, but to a much lesser extent than the professional naysayers I complain about. Because of the position I put myself in, I can't be too polarizing. I also hold down 1.5 jobs, so I'm held back from being able to cause too much trouble. :)
I hear ya.
But I guess what I really wanted to say is that not enough people get involved. So the ones who do aren't always speaking for the whole group.
The difference is that Boston
The difference is that Boston neighborhoods used to, in many cases, be their own cities and towns before incorporation. DC and NY are similar as well where as many other American cities are not in the same situation.
Their neighborhoods do have walls around them in many respects as they tend to be fenced off from other areas by some sort of landmark, in many cases cutting it off from the rest of the city. East Boston, Charlestown, Alston/Brighton are all like that.
Brooklyn does have a separate library system from NYC
Brooklyn Public Library
Yes, and it also has its own borough president
Brooklyn might not be the best example because a) it's not full of college students who don't really care where they're living until an emergency and b) it's basically completely surrounded by the rest of NYC (and water), which makes it a bit different than, say, Brighton, where it can be difficult in places to tell you've just stepped over the line into Brookline (at least, until you notice the street signs are all weird).
But that's just me as a recovering Brooklynite talking ...
Private
Isn't the New York Library a private, not public entity?
New York *Public* Library
The New York Public Library is a public entity. In fact, if you go to their website right now - http://www.nypl.org/ - you will see a page that asks people to write to their elected officials and request that the NYPL's budget not be cut by $37 million.
Maybe the library operates
Maybe the library operates like our Quasi government agencies like Massport where they still get support from the government but are operates outside of the government structure. Those agencies tend to confuse people and could have been what the prior poster had heard.
That's true, but...
I'm sure an actual Brooklynite would know he lived in NYC. In the thread in question, the kid actually lived in Allston-Brighton and didn't know it was part of Boston.
I didn't realize the concept of a neighborhood was so foreign to people. Then again, I've had people tell me West Roxbury was a dangerous area (apparently the word "Roxbury" threw them), so maybe nothing should surprise me anymore.
I got the impression that this person was new to the city
I've met quite a few people new to Brooklyn and Queens who say they don't live in the city.
To be honest, I was surprised to find out Brighton was part of Boston when I first moved there too (I figured it out within a week or so though). Not to mention some of the other outlying neighborhoods.
Boston is not that different from many other large cities in this regard.
This happens to me all the time.
I live in Dorchester. When I give my mailing address, the clerks type in "Dorchester Center" dutifully, and then the zip code 02124, and their computer tells them that it's Boston. At that point I can't win - if I admit that it's okay to put Boston on my mail, then they treat me as if I'm a liar. If I insist on mail being addressed to Dorchester Center, they fight with the computer, which KNOWS that 02124 is Boston.
It almost screwed up my condo purchase - some of the documents had it listed as Dorchester Center, and others had it listed as Boston, and apparently it looked to the computers as if it were two condos because of that.
I've given up on explaining it. I'm just glad I live on a street which doesn't share a name with a street in any other Boston zip code.
So you don't live on Washington, then
Or Mt. Vernon? :-).
Don't forget Tremont.
Don't forget Tremont.
Even worse
About an hour ago, I was on the phone with National Grid verifying an appointment to get our meter replaced. The woman on the phone asked me to read the name and address on the account, and I said "[name, street], Brighton MA...although actually we live in Allston." She immediately said, "Oh god, I know, I live just a few streets over from you and my bill says Brighton too, it drives me crazy."
And this isn't, like, over the other side of Union Square where the demarcation is hazy or anything. My neighborhood stopped being Brighton in the 1860s!
I live in Dorchester, but in
I live in Dorchester, but in 02121. Ironically I've had a recurring problem with people using 02124 as my zip code without thinking, and one experience where the post office in Wollaston insisted that my zip code for Dorchester was 02124. My mother was trying to mail some important paperwork to me and argued with them about this until she relented and used 02124, and it was returned. So she went back, showed them returned mail, and insisted on using 02121, but someone at the post office later crossed it out and wrote back in 02124, and it got returned again. At that point she gave up, and I had to go get it from her. She even kept it in the envelope so I would believe that she really tried to send it twice to the right address. The deed to my home also had 02124. I've missed getting other important documents due to this same mistake. I used to get wrong zipcode mail in Quincy without a problem. Not sure what the issue is over at 02124 that they can't route it correctly and just return to sender. IDK, maybe my house was formerly in 02124. No one ever wrong guesses my zip as 02122.
On the other hand, I live in
On the other hand, I live in Quincy and I am often told how far away from Boston it is as if it was down the Cape and not on the Red Line. It is just as close to Boston as Cambridge is.
Me too
I've also gotten, "Sure, it's only a 20 minute commute, but you have to take the commuter rail, right?"
The inverse of this is all
The inverse of this is all the kids I knew in college who claimed they were from Boston, when they were actually from Needham, Waltham, Somerville, and Medford.
If this were any other large American city ...
Or if Boston had the kind of geographic extent that other large American cities have, Medford, Somerville, and Waltham would all be inside the city limits of Boston.
Don't forget "Boston Rob"
...who was from Canton. That's not even inside 128!
Well to them it is Boston.
Well to them it is Boston. They could tell people back home that they live in Needham and have to explain the coordinates of that city or they could say Boston and be done with it. I live outside of Boston proper and tell anyone who lives outside of the 495 belt that I live in Boston when asked unless I am confident they know their Boston area geography.
Easier saying Boston than
Easier saying Boston than explaining a a student from Texas where's my town is.
Allston in literature
From A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine
http://www.amazon.com/Novel-Efficient-Synthesis-Ca...
"It was five-thirty on a late spring morning in Allston, Massachusetts. Unlike some of the other neighborhoods in the City of Boston, Allston had never had its own independent political being. Historically an area of industries in the Town of Brighton, it had been given its own name just a few years before Brighton was annexed by Boston. Large swaths of Allston land had once been railroad yards, slaughterhouses, and livestock pens. There was absolutely no reason to think the cosmos had arranged events so that the teeming campus of the University had ended up just where thousands of head of dumb cattle had once milled aimlessly waiting for a hammer blow to the skull."
near as i can tell it was one
near as i can tell it was one commenter who was confused about it (fair enough, when i first moved here I was initially confused by it since I had a Brighton mailing address), another commenter who stated that Brighton had their own Fire and Police (this misinformed person may live in Newburyport, Georgia, or Sri Lanka for all we know), and one other person (GOP) whose post i actually read as sarcasm.
Why is everyone so worked up over a couple of stupid comments on a globe article, and still so weeks later? Have you actually ever read the comments on there? These are far from the most idiotic. I'm really scratching my head over this one.
True, a bit of a rehash
I linked to Maureen's post because I thought it was interesting somebody was still talking about this. You're right, the discussion on the Globe site is not one of the ones that makes you want to throw your laptop against a wall or crawl into a hole and never interact with the rest of humanity or something.