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Why is it so much more expensive to get to Montreal than Toronto?
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Supply and demand, etc.
I haven't checked lately, but at one point it was twice as much to fly to San Francisco as to LA.
And there were plenty of itineraries (this for business trips without much advance purchase) for which it was over $1,000 cheaper to fly out of Providence than out of Boston. Which bugged me, since I was traveling a lot at the time, and Logan was 10 minutes away and Providence was an hour, but even at my at-the-time-ridiculous bill rate, I still had a hard time justifying flying out of Boston.
If you expect the price of getting from point A to point B to correlate with distance (or if, for that matter, you expect the price of anything to correlate with the cost of delivering it) you would have fun reading an economics book such as "Freakonomics" or "Abortion, Baseball, and Weed."
Not really
Air Canada is a virtual monopoly, and it isn't very well managed.
That's why.
I have three choices going to Calgary: Fly to Toronto or Montreal and then to Calgary; fly to Houston or Dallas and then to Calgary; or drive to Montreal and stay in a hotel and fly Westjet to Calgary.
Houston or Dallas is usually half the hotel option, which is still considerably cheaper than connecting through Canada.
No monopoly to Toronto
Porter flies from Boston to the harbor airport. I'm willing to bet that the cheapest fare to Montreal is via Porter.
Of course, we shouldn't ignore that one can take American air carriers to destinations north of the border, but since the discount carriers don't, it's Porter.
Actually, not really
If you want certain destinations, you do not get a lot of choices for flying into Canada from Boston. The prices can get pretty utterly outrageous.
Where and when do you fly to Canada?
Porter advertises in the paper
You might want to read one.
Sure, they can get you only to Ontario and Quebec, but it's an option. In short, Air Canada does not have a monopoly to Toronto, even leaving out Delta and United and only counting Canadian flag carriers.
Ever been to the Toronto Harbor Islands? They're beautiful. I love the cottages on the east side. I've been to the airport only once, for a helicopter ride. Small airport, which is how the abutters want it. We drove to the GTA, which is how I usually visit Canada.
And so?
We seem to be in complete agreement about the underlying economics of oligopoly and monopoly, so why "not really" as your headline?
Looking Canada wide
When I first saw this, I knew that Toronto is cheaper as there is a low cost carrier to the GTA, while Montreal only has the big carriers.
Swirly makes the point that flying to Canada in general is pricey as one only has the option of Air Canada, hoping a US carrier goes there, or getting to somewhere close in Canada then flying a domestic low cost carrier the rest of the way.
While obviously I disagree with her on Toronto, I agree overall. When my wife was living in Olympa, WA and attending McGill, she took the bus to Vancouver, then flew east (and vice versa). Vancouver-New York is (or was) a good ticket, as the likes of Cathay Pacific went to Asia via Canada, meaning empty seats to be sold cheap on the North American segment. But who is going to Calgary (other than oilmen and BMO employees?)
Did he check the prices after the playoffs are over?
Maybe it's more expensive because of higher demand from Bruins fans wanting to go to the playoffs?
Airfare is always high
Air Canada to Montreal is almost always over $400 and very often over $600. You don't even save much time because the airport is an hour away from the city center by transit. It often costs more to fly to Montreal than to fly to Vancouver, and sometimes it's more than flying halfway around the world to Shanghai.
The only explanation I can think of is that Air Canada is trying to save all their seats for people who are transferring to far-away destinations. Every passenger who gets off in Montreal costs them an international or cross-country ticket.
Train
It's only about $100 to take the train to Montreal, but it'll take you about 14 hours if you time it right.
Boston to Albany, then Albany to Montreal.
That's one way
The return trip by train requires an overnight stay in Albany, and then since your connecting train is coming from Chicago, it's often two or more hours late. You're better off going all the way to New York and then back to Boston if you must travel by rail. Greyhound is really the best option.
Wait, airfares are supposed to make sense?
Partially, though, it's competition. Porter flies to YTZ several times a day. Airport is right downtown (right now it's a 3 minute ferry ride; they're building an underwater walkway, seriously). It's a bigger market = economies of scale.
Also because airfares never make sense. Sometimes you can get to the West Coast for $250, or to Alaska for $400. There are some cities much closer that never see those sorts of fares.
Airfares make perfect sense
Airfare pricing is almost perfectly rational. The airlines are extremely good at predicting load, at adjusting pricing in real time in response to demand, and in making more or fewer cheap seats available. There's a huge amount of computer firepower and human expertise devoted to the job, they probably do a better job of pricing and yield management than anyone else out there.
The Boston to Montreal flight price is always $400.
I've taken it before and look quite frequently, and they seem to be $425 or so every time I look. (Porter is usually very expensive out if the major hubs as well whenever I check.)
I get the idea that this non-stop flight is a steady 80% to 90% capacity and there is no reason for Air Canada to finagle those prices. They are pretty much the only game in town.
Quebec also has a 7.5% tax that is unique to that Provence.
Greyhound is about $50 and takes 10 hours.
Greyhound
Greyhound is usually close to $120 round trip if you buy a bit ahead of time on the web, and it's about 7 hours.
$42 each way now for the 7 hour ride....
And probably some more fees and taxes on the way back, so it is probably close to $120.
I took it 5 years ago and it was about $50, but that was the overnight bus which is cheaper I think.
train redux
So, has anyone heard anything new about this?
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Montreal-to-Boston_night_train_gains_ste...
*walks off with "night train" stuck in her head*
Translation fees.
Translation fees.
More expensive for the privledge
of going to a French speaking city! Driving isn't bad on I-89, except when foggy. Burlington VT on Lake Champlain is a nice place to stop along the way.
It's obnoxious
I would like to visit Montreal more often as well but there's no good way to get there. You'd think the bus would be reasonable. A non-stop bus ought to be able to do it in less than 6 hours. But there is no such thing currently, I think, for obscure regulatory reasons.
Quebec grants monopolies to
Quebec grants monopolies to bus lines. So there are no competitive discount buses to Montreal.
On the other hand, Megabus goes from NYC to Toronto.
Besides the price, frequency, and number of stops, the other big problem with the bus is the slow and sometimes abusive treatment passengers get at the border, especially southbound.
When I was driving with a British friend from Canada to the U.S., it took about half an hour to do the I-94W paperwork and pay the $6. Everyone besides Canadians and Americans needs to do this. For land crossings, there's no way to do it in advance with an ESTA, like you would if you're flying. And this is for a totally uncomplicated situation for someone from a visa-waiver country.
Multiply this by a busload, and add in a few people from countries the border agents don't like, and you'll see why the bus takes so long.
I took the bus from Boston to Montréal once
Couple of years ago...2012, I think? Crossing into Canada took maybe twenty minutes for everyone on the bus. Check passports, couple of cursory questions, that was it. I think one guy was refused entry. Crossing back into the USA took *hours*, in large part because we had several buses in front of us and it took US Customs 30-40 minutes to clear each bus. I'm not inclined to do that again.
Megabus in Quebec
Megabus does run between Montreal and Toronto
http://ca.megabus.com/JourneyResults.aspx?originCode=280&destinationCode...
I was told that Megabus is planning to extend their Boston/Burlington VT run all the way to Montreal sometime in June.
To save a few bucks I have taken Megabus to Burlington for $15 and then wait 4 hours in Burlington for the next Greyhound to Montreal which is $26. Burlington is a nice place to visit for a few hours.
Best bet is to fly to Plattsburgh (PBG) on PenAir
which is about $155 with advance purchase. From PBG, at least half the plane is usually headed to Montreal, so it should be easy to hitch a ride.
Just have to say pay it. It's
Just have to say pay it. It's worth not having to take a greyhound. The one time I took the greyhound to montreal it got stuck on the side of the road for 2 hours...
Right
And once I got stuck in traffic for two hours so I am never driving anywhere ever again. Greyhound to Montreal is not bad. They have wifi on the bus and it stops for a food break at a great Chinese buffet in White River Junction. I've probably taken this trip a dozen times and arrived early in more than half of them.
food options on my trip weren't so great
Subway in WRJ on the way up at an hour way too early for lunch, some McD's somewhere in VT on the way back. Ew.
Chinese food place attached to the bus stop in WRJ
I know, sounds awful, but it was actually decent.
I don't remember that Chinese food place
Now that I look at Google Maps, it's "China Moon Buffet", maybe?. I left very early in the morning, and like I said, it was too early for lunch when we got to WRJ. Perhaps they weren't open for business yet, and that's why the bus stopped at the Subway instead?
Craigslist Rideshare in a Mercedes!
Leave it to the rare UHub conservative to suggest carpooling. Someone named Phillipe posts on Craigslist Rideshare that he drives from Oak Grove to Montreal every other week. Leaves at 2 pm, usually arrives in 5.5 hours or less. Smoke free, only $40, car looks like a newer, 4 door, Mercedes wagon and he'll drop you at your door in Montreal (if you want). Sounds like a deal. Note: Post is from March but he says he's been doing it for 13 years.
New study published shows carpooling 7x as popular as bicycling
for getting to work. The Metropolitan Planning Organization recently published their latest in-depth (once per decade) study results. It takes a while to analyze the data, it seems. That or they wanted to wait for other data showing bike mode share was more than just 2%.
http://www.bostonmpo.org/Drupal/exploring_2011_survey
So, when traveling, its good to keep carpooling in mind as a good time, cost, and energy efficiency balance.
I remember Games Away tours
Back in the early '80s, my buddies and I would get a $129 package to see the Bruins play the Canadiens at the Forum. That included a round trip on a chartered bus,a night at a surprisingly decent hotel(double occ.), and a SRO ticket to the game. Every time, the bus would be missing one or two people for the return trip. We assumed the missing succumbed to the wiles of Rue St. Catherine.
En route
I travel to Montreal once a year, always by car. Overall, it is an easy drive. My best time was five hours, the worst eight, which involved a flat tire and lots of traffic. I hit the road timed to avoid traffic leaving Boston, backups at the border, and of great importance, getting over the Champlain Bridge or Jacques Cartier Bridge outside rush hour.
October is very nice, lots of foliage.