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Harvard wields banhammer on off-campus single-sex groups: Members to lose school backing for Rhodes scholarships, other bennies

The Crimson reports on new Harvard policies aimed at making off-campus clubs and Greek organizations accept members of the opposite sex. Starting with the class of 2021, anybody who signs up for one will be blocked from becoming captain of a sports team, a leader of any student organization or getting a college endorsement for any scholarships, including the Rhodes.

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Comments

Nothing like giving sexism a good 5 additional years to work itself out. "Allowing Women" is clearly the sort of radical change which can't happen until all incoming Freshmen have graduated.

If you need me I'll be the at the Bar ordering a Harpoon.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't class of 2021 mean the class graduating in 2021? That would mean the class starting next year or so.

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That's Malia Obama's class.

Sounds like it was timed for max publicity.

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Which, like most people, myself included, I suspect you haven't, but this didn't just spring out of thin air - Harvard's been talking about this for a fairly long time now.

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and if it was that important, they'd have put the rule in effect for next school year, given how late Harvard's school year ends.

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You're right. I misread it as "starting in 2021"

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You do not talk about sausage club.

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Totalitarianism, writ small.

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.

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Totalitarianism, writ small.

Private institution exercising the freedom to set its own rules, writ large. The very opposite of totalitarianism.

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The right to associate with whomever one wishes is an inalienable right the court has repeatedly found to be part of the First Amendment of the Constitution.

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And if some government entity were restricting anybody's right to free association, you'd have a point.

But....

  • Harvard is a private entity, not a government entity.
  • Being a student at Harvard is a voluntary relationship. Either side is free to walk away.
  • Harvard is not forbidding anyone from joining any club. They are saying that joining certain clubs makes one ineligible for certain benefits that Harvard would otherwise voluntarily provide.
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About ten years ago the City of Boston told the all-male and all-female clubs that they would lose their liquor licenses unless they opened up their membership to all.

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had nothing to do with the liquor license issue with all-male or all-female clubs in Boston. It was Andrea Gargiulo who, as head of the Boston Licensing Board, brought this rule to fruition in the late 80s. Long before Menino was mayor.

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I suspect they will have to construct the policy very carefully.

Rights of speech and assembly may apply in this case, after all. If the University accepts Federal research grants and Federal student loan money, there might be an argument to be made that denying certain people equal educational opportunity (for example, pre-empting them for any consideration for the University's recommendation for scholarships/fellowships? I'd think it'd be next to impossible to get one of those without the endorsement of your own college) based on outside speech and association is very much a violation of those rights!

Oh, well... Doubtless the University can afford a good lawyer to draft the policy. I wonder which club he or she was a member of when they were a Harvard undergrad.

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Free association doesn't actually mean freedom from consequences of that association.

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The GOVERNMENT is obligated by the amendments, not Harvard.

Also, they are not restricting the students right to associate, they are imposing consequences of those choices.

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The cubs are private institutions being told they can't act as private institutions by another private institution.

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The cubs are private institutions being told they can't act as private institutions by another private institution

.

The clubs aren't being told anything.

The students are being told that if they join certain clubs then they become ineligible for other Harvard goodies.

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The Cubs are a running punchline in MLB, and an embarassment to the city of Chicago.

Sorry, what were we talking about?

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http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/futures/

9-2 favorites to win the whole thing is not 'an embarrassment'.

The Cleveland Browns- now that's an embarrassment.

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Does this mean all of Harvard's sports teams, singing groups, and bathrooms are going co-ed?

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I was wondering about that too. Harvard and many other colleges have had all-male and all-female choirs. Maybe no longer?

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According to the WSJ "The school does recognize some single-gender groups, including men’s wrestling, women’s field hockey and the Harvard Krokodiloes, an all-male a cappella group. Administrators say those teams and organizations aren’t primarily social in purpose, and so won’t be affected by the new policy."

Sounds hypocritical.

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So no more attending curves for women?

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Is Curves a club that one joins? I thought it was a business that ran gyms.

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It is a private organization that excludes people of a certain sex. Why does it matter if they are for profit or not?

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You might have a point.

These clubs are organizations which require a Harvard connection, but exclude people. Curves doesn't fall in that category.

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So these clubs just have to let non Harvard students in and they are good?

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Personal fitness businesses are not social organizations.

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"I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member." Timeless advice.

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So the clubs will just host special guests. Only Alumni are members.

Problem solved.

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the Task Force for the Prevention of Sexual Assault’s report upbraided the clubs for espousing “a culture often inimical to Harvard College.” The report found that 47 percent of surveyed senior women at the College who had “participated” in final clubs reported having experienced nonconsensual sexual contact during their undergraduate years, “ half again” the average of 31 percent for all senior women.

No reason at all to question causality in that analysis. The women who "participated" in final clubs have personalities completely identical to the women who did not.

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Non consensual sexual contact is always all about how women behave or are wearing. It isn't ever about a culture where men are not expected to be able to control themselves and, well, not rape.

Keep up the victim blaming!

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Oh good, another "causality" rape apologist. What a logical bro you are. Your mother must be proud. Too bad human beings are messy and emotional and, despite that, still DO NOT DESERVE TO BE RAPED.

Which fratboy dog whistle is this? Spell it out for us - are the victims lying sluts, or fat pigs who should be grateful, or gold-diggers who totes had it coming?

Or possibly, just possibly, they were women who met a young man they kind of liked, and accepted a social invitation like human beings do every single day?

Spare me your "well actually" bruh, spend the time asking yourself why you think women aren't people instead.

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...another question: Where will this stop?

Sure - this is only those not-officially-Harvard but-everybody-knows-they're-about-Harvard organizations. For now.

What - or who - do they go after next?

The Knights of Columbus Council at Saint Paul's, perhaps?

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then yes, it might well have to open its membership to women, or else any Harvard students who join it might face smilar repurcussions.

Since the university wields absolutely no power against the institutions themselves, though, it would be an awfully silly thing to imply that Harvard is going to "go after" anything.

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None of these organizations are affiliated with harvard.

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Try joining one while not being a (present or former) Harvard student.

They are making bank off the Harvard name. Harvard has a right to protect its brand identity.

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Maybe you didn't get the St. Paul's reference. It's the Catholic parish that covers Harvard Square. One of their buildings has a sign that says "Harvard Catholic Student Center".

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It automatically stops where organizations allow members of all genders, so if you're worried...

Seriously, we saw this crap with golf courses and country clubs banning women when women first started to enter the workforce - "oh it's just a social club (which happens to be where all the business deals occur.)" Now we have strip clubs where women are just expected to be "chill" (how many boomer white man CEOs are cool with signing deals at Chippendales?) and these social clubs that totally aren't about business at all, pinkie swear!!

I personally think secret societies are stupid and juvenile, but the usual "why do women want to join a club where they're not welcome" argument is even more so. Women are interested in joining clubs for the same stupid reasons men are. Artificially excluding them is toxic and so, so pathetic. "No Gurlz Alowd" is ridiculed even from 8-yos in 80s movies. Raise your standards, dude.

Women are just people. Jam that concept into your brain-goo and the rest of this becomes much easier to understand, I promise.

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?

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Masons have every right to be geriatric pigs because they co-opt no-one else's brand. They're still scum but who cares.

Whereas Harvard has a right to care about prospective students being led to the HQ of such No Gurlz clubhouses and - true story from multiple women of color - have a smirking white boy tell them "This is a club you can never join beeecaaaaause..." and expect those women to finish the sentence.

Gross. Just gross. And about time Harvard started caring about how such "ambassadors" reflect upon the institution.

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and have no problem with all female clubs , and fail to see the problem with private gender specific clubs. We are pretty lame in this country; PC Americans would have a stroke if they experienced what goes on in the rest of the world like Asia in regards to sexism, racism, antisemitism, homophobia, etc. We are scared little pussy cats in this country that someone, somewhere might be offended by fill-in-the-blank.

Stuff like this is really about psychological conditioning people to control and micromanaging every aspect of life.

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This is a slippery slope of school administrations micromanaging student activity off campus. Should BC punish students who join city wide greek chapters since they banned greek life? What about BU students who are members of chapters that went underground after getting kicked off? The concept of not being recognized by the school means that the orgs officially don't exist to Harvard, so Harvard is trying to rule something they don't recognize or is not under their domain.

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The Banhammer

Why does that sound like it should have an inscription on the side of it?

Whoever lifts this hammer
Not exclusively "she" or "he"
Shall self-select to preemptively punish
Any who aren't PC

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Women march against single-sex ban

More than 200 female Harvard University students pushed back Monday against a new policy to discourage participation in single-gender clubs at the Ivy League school, a move that will affect sororities and other women’s groups.

During a raucous rally on Harvard Yard, student demonstrators from an organization dubbed the Crimson Women’s Coalition used a hockey stick to unfurl a banner across the facade of a campus building that read, “Hear Her Harvard.

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