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What is a Massachusetts Liberal?

Hey I'm just wondering what exactly is a Massachusetts liberal? Specifically how does an MA liberal differ from other liberals from other parts of the country that also have an obvious large liberal majority such as California or NY?

Bush called Kerry this during a debate some years back and I never knew what he meant by that. Does it mean a liberal who also supports gay marriage since MA was the only state to pass that law?

Any honest answers appreciated. Thanks.


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Comments

the most extreme type of liberal?

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Yes, the most extreme, properly defined as "Wicked liberal."

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...I think of it in terms of the "Don't Blame Me, I Voted for McGovern" phenomenon. When there's just one "blue state" left on an electoral map, you can bet it's probably going to be Massachusetts. Ditto the 2004 election, when Massachusetts produced the opposition candidate at the height of the Bush administration's 8 years in office.

Massachusetts' parochialism plays into this -- many here consider life "Beyond 495" to be at least partially irrelevant to their own views, and I would say that includes whatever, say, neoconservative political craze might be sweeping the nation... Maybe you could define "Massachusetts liberals" as "people who don't comprehend the idea of 'liberal' as a derogatory term and stand their ground."

I would also agree with some below that a "Massachusetts liberal", while uncompromising on some issues, tends to be more moderate than, say, a "San Francisco liberal". You could call it "classical liberalism", I guess -- not totally progressive according to today's definitions, but definitely far from conservative, with much of its concentration on social egalitarianism rather than stereotypically liberal fiscal policies...(see below re "Taxachusetts" misnomer).

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Not In My Back Yard liberal. Ted Kennedy saying no to the wind farm. John Kerry wishing the roxbury kids wouldn't trick or treat on beacon hill.

Bush was a Connecticut conservative, the main goal of which is to hide all evidence that you are from Connecticut.

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its very prevalent here sometimes too much of it. Although i would've never associated the nimby attitude with liberalism but rather more in line with the grumpy old man who yells at the kids or whoever to get off his lawn.
It just seems that liberals are usually very progressive thinking in that if there is something to be built that will benefit society as a whole and not just one person they would support it. (ie a wind farm)

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Even more so than NIMBY.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Make rules/prohibitions/taxes for the common classes, but the politicians/rich/and my buddies can do whatever we like.

"all animals are equal (but some are more equal than others)"

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Better than a New York City liberal.

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between the two cities for who is the better liberal lol

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Rent the musical "1776". The character of John Adams in this show has always been my favorite example of the Massachusetts liberal. A mix of liberal political/social values and a puritanical code of personal conduct.

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Adams would roll over in his grave if he heard some of the economic "reasoning" behind today's liberals. For that matter, JFK would, too.

A Massachusetts liberal is one that is comfortable wearing a "I Heart Hugo Chavez" t-shirt to the Prius dealership, and patting himself on the back for it.

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..but the type of person who thinks giving luxuries to people who can't afford them is a good idea.

https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/...

I'm all for being progressive, but there is a reason I call MA the Nanny State.

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to think i pay >$100/month for my cell service and some people can get the service and the phone for free! and notice how they call it "lifeline" as if to cleverly portray it as a necessary life saving device. c'mon

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I consider myself to be a liberal--and those free-cell-phones-for-the-disadvantaged ads burn me up too. How could anyone consider that to be something we have to provide for free?

Whit

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Whoa. I work for a social service agency, this is the first I've heard about that program and I wish I'd known. I've got several cases for which this service would have been a godsend. Not having a reliable phone at which to get call-backs about jobs they've applied for has been a big, big issue for some people I work with who are trying to get back on their feet. Likewise, the single moms on SSI trying to keep their heads above water, rushing around trying to get their little kids where they need to be, aren't by landlines and don't have vmail or answering machines, and sometimes their daycares or pediatrician's offices need to get a hold of them in a hurry. And, of course, battered women's shelters have been giving domestic violence victims cell phones for years.

FWIW, I just looked at the site, and anybody who thinks getting a TracFone with 80 minutes a month is some sort of treat is welcome to try one out. I got a TracFone -- the exact model in the promotional photo -- as a disposable phone when I was in grad school to use at my internship, because interns didn't get phones even if we were doing case management. It was (and is) the most unbelieveable piece of crap electronics; I think it cost $12. The price of additional minutes is astronomically high ($0.50/minute?). But this is what folks who can't manage a contract for whatever reason are struck with. Man, I despised that thing. But it did the job.

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HOW SAFELINK WORKS

Instead of receiving a monthly telephone bill for your Lifeline service, SafeLink converts the total amount of discounted service (approximately $13.50 of discounted telephone service) into minutes (68 minutes) each month. Through our service you will receive FREE cellular service, a FREE cell phone, and FREE Minutes every month! SafeLink Wireless Service does not cost anything – there are no contracts, no recurring fees and no monthly charges. The SafeLink service is good for one year. Participants in the program are subject to annual verification. The cell phone is NOT subsidize by the federal government and is provided by TracFone to the customer at no cost.

Any Minutes you do not use will roll-over. Features such as caller ID, call waiting and voicemail are all also included with your service. If you need additional Minutes, you can buy TracFone Airtime Cards at any TracFone retailer Walmart, Walgreens, Family Dollar, etc). SafeLink Airtime Cards will be available soon.

Your exact benefits, including the number of free Minutes you will receive, depend on the state you live in.

So basically it's 70min a month, a free (non subsidised) old as crap phone, and it costs $12 a month.

One thing to remember is this program was born out of a need that used to not be there. Its almost impossible to find a pay phone anywhere these days with the advent of cell phones (companies took them out to cut costs), and that land lines would actually cost the program more.

Still, its programs like these that I'd love to see a cost benefit analysis run on to see their true impact on the community as a whole, and possible other scenarios and costs. If it's not a benefit, it should be cut.

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Safelink provides phones to people with fixed incomes; people who are raising kids on little money and/or people with disabilities. You get 68-80 minutes per month (depending on various factors), which is not enough to spend time socializing on the phone. The service allows people in shelters or transient living situations, or people who can't keep phone service, to have a number where they can be reached for appointments and things. It's a lot cheaper than the long-term effects of not being able to get a job, your doctor not being able to get in touch with you, your kid's school not being able to contact you. I do think it's a basic human right in this society to have a working phone number, plus I prefer that my tax dollars be used to provide a simple bit of dignity to our less fortunate brothers and sisters rather than being wasted on less reasonable and humane expenses. You know, like having your kid turned over to DCF because the school couldn't reach you on your turned-off phone or being on transitional assistance for years because the prospective employers who call the number on your resume and reach a homeless shelter immediately hung up. The costs of not having a phone are a lot more than having a few minutes per month on a free handset.

(BTW, this isn't some newfangled Massachusetts liberal program; it comes out of the FCC's lifeline program, created in the 1970s.)

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...with some actual facts?

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No. I still think that giving people free cell phones is absurd. If people live in a shelter there is a phone to be used at the front desk--I know this from calling people at them. You leave a message or talk to them.

Maybe I think of cell phones as a luxury and they aren't really any longer. Somehow the idea of help maintaining a land-line at a residence seems less outlandish than a free cell phone.

Whit

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Whit,

My guess is it's actually cheaper to offer cell service now a days with the advent of cheap phones and prepaid card service.

Also, with prepaid min cellphones, you go over your service and it's turned off for everything except 911. Tha'ts harder to do with land lines.

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I love how some people refer to the Safelink program as "an Obama phone."

WTF?

The program's been in effect for 25 years and finally recognizes the reality of cell phones as a viable option for communication.

And the phones themselves are cheap, low-end devices, but the right wing echo chamber rails against this because of the perception that cell phones are somehow "luxuries."

Crazy.

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1. Cell service is cheaper than landline service.

2. It's pretty much expected that people have cell phones now, whether this expectation is warranted or not. If someone has unstable housing and bill paying, often because of a domestic violence situation or similar, and they're leaving messages for a potential employer or their kid's doctor or whoever every few weeks saying they have a different number, that gets read as someone who can't keep their shit together. If the person has a cell phone, their number at least stays the same, which is what people kind of have come to expect.

3. Yes, there are phones at shelters. And even at the smaller house-type shelters, it's still obvious by the way the phone is answered and messages are relayed that you aren't calling a private residence. Even if the shelter has a policy of not telling anyone that they're speaking with a shelter, people still get a weird vibe when they call and are leaving a message and ask who they're leaving it with, and they get a random first name with no "this is her niece" or anything attached, and the person taking the message doesn't seem to recognize the name with a "oh, the place she interviewed on Monday, got it." It puts people at a disadvantage when a prospective employer or school admissions office isn't able to reach a personal voicemail box or speak with a household member who identifies him/herself as such and seems to be expecting the call.

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Yeah yeah, we have several people whose definition involved insulting other groups and beliefs. Nice.

In seriousness, my impression of the term is that it refers to the New England value of tolerance. I do really mean "tolerance," rather than "acceptance." The idea that what other people does doesn't matter, doesn't really affect me personally. I think that someone who characterizes "Massachusetts liberal" doesn't try to deeply understand other people or other points of view, but is respectful as long as the others aren't hurting anyone. A Massachusetts liberal may be quite conservative in practice, sticking to one's own kind, living a very un-daring life, yet votes (and donates, if able) in a way that supports anything that isn't actively hurting someone else.

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It seems there are two answers to this question: what typical Massachusetts liberals are really like; and what the right-wing screamers mean when they try to insult people with this epithet.

The screamers imagine all liberals are pretty much the same, and in Massachusetts they must be worse because there are more of them. Liberalism is rock solid in Massachusetts, so a Massachusetts liberal must be kind of an uber-liberal. But the screamers have it backwards: Massachusetts liberals are still dour and distrustful Yankees, and are actually more conservative than liberals elsewhere.

If there is such a thing as a "Massachusetts liberal" (besides being that kind of liberal who is cocky and secure because s/he is in the majority all the time), they must be somehow different from west-coast liberals or upper-midwest liberals (the two other strongholds in the country).

I've lived in the midwest before, and one of the things that always impressed me about liberals there is the commonality of civic virtue and support for community organizations. Sure, you've got your poster-stapling minority hanging around college campuses. But what really makes liberalism strong in the upper midwest is cultural traditions of community dating back centuries. While the kids are out being freegans, their parents are supporting the town museum where you can take courses for a dollar and the symphony orchestra that plays free for the kids. It's just part of being a good citizen, like shoveling your sidewalk and mowing your lawn. Liberalism in Wisconsin is about paying your dues.

California liberals might be the most extreme variety. After all, their right-wingers are some of the most extreme as well. It's kind of a bipolar state. California liberals are used to being in the minority or constantly fighting rather than ruling over a long period. The legislature, where it's always majority D, has little actual power to make law because of all the referendums. So it's easy to support absurd or pointless stands just for the optics. California liberals support so many things that they end up conflicting. And they do wacky things like run around at Burning Man without their clothes on. California liberals are utopian, with all the pitfalls of that: they make shaky little enclaves where they can live in a dream world and ignore the rest of the state.

Massachusetts liberals are more like the original liberals - the Founding Fathers. Massachusetts liberals aren't evangelistic about it, just steady. They understand that liberalism is the central political tradition of this country and the reason this country exists, and strive to preserve our traditions, no matter how the rest of the country might shift. But that doesn't mean they have to like everybody or put up with California-type shenanigans. Animal rights activists and eco-terrorists can stay out there. Massachusetts liberals don't go for that. They don't get divorced every three years like they do out there, either. Massachusetts liberals stay married more than anybody in the country. Massachusetts liberals lead, as Eeka says, quite conservative lives, going to church (perhaps the traditional UU) and eating their vegetables (preferably good New England produce). They don't go for casinos or bars open all night or that sort of disreputable stuff. Massachusetts liberals are good, stable parents. If this country's political center of gravity hadn't shifted because of the far-out weight of the movement Conservatives after Reagan (a California thing, it should be noted), then Massachusetts liberals would be the conservatives. But Massachusetts liberals are traditionally too wary to go for that sort of flim-flam show.

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Massachusetts liberals are still dour and distrustful Yankees, and are actually more conservative than liberals elsewhere.

Yep. There is this conflation of "democrat" with "liberal", so all Massachusetts democrats are Massachusetts liberals. Right?

Wrong. Many "democrats" around these parts are affiliated with the Democratic party because that's where the power base is. In any other region of the country, they would be solidly Republican. Reps Donato and Casey are exhibits A and B in the DINO wing.

Although I would say that much of the "conservative" strain in the Democratic party in these parts results more from ingrained values of traditional Catholicism and less from traditional Yankee behavior.

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Speaking as someone who has lived in Massachusetts, Wisconsin, AND California (the latter currently), I agree with all of the above.

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Zero sum liberal?

+ Gay marriage
- Highly restrictive alcohol laws

+Pro gun control (by comparison)
- Anti wind farms

+ Pro choice
- No business between 2am and 6am

+ Healthcare
- No casinos

+ Decriminalization of marijuana
- prostitution illegal

(Note, Im not saying the + and the - have anything in common, it just seems that every liberal step is accompanied by a conservative one)

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That is all, since Gaffin asked me not to talk dirty around here anymore.

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I believe that, in other parts of the country, the term "Massachusetts Liberal" is synonymous with "Socialist." We are nationally notorious for our high taxes.

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People who throw around "socialist" without knowing anything about anything are morons, which is synonymous with idiots. Clueless internet posters are nationally notorious for their high idiocy levels.

In terms of tax burdens by state, MA isn't even in the top 10, way to use your noodle:
New Jersey residents paid 11.8%, topping the charts. New Yorkers were close behind, paying 11.7%, and Connecticut was third at 11.1%. The top 10 were rounded out by Maryland (10.8%), Hawaii (10.6%), California (10.5%), Ohio (10.4%). Vermont (10.3%), Wisconsin (10.2%) and Rhode Island (10.2%). UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!

States with the highest sales tax are: California (8.25%), Indiana (7%), Mississippi (7%), New Jersey (7%), Rhode Island (7%), Tennessee (7%), Nevada (6.85%), Washington (6.5%), Texas and Illinois (6.25%). Whoa, TX has the same sales tax rate as MA. Didn't realize Texas was SOCIALIST! UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!

Massachusetts doesn't tax social security benefits, but 14 states do: Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Connecticut, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah. Lotta red states looking like socialist havens. UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!UH DUH!

-http://retirementliving.com/RLtaxes.html
Sources:
* Individual state tax and revenue departments
* State Tax Handbook (2009); published by CCH Inc.
* Federation of Tax Administrators
* The Tax Foundation
* National Conference of State Legislatures
Updated August 2009; based on available data.

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a flat income tax rate not a progressive tax scale like most other states. I think its 5.3% so that means no matter how high your income is you are taxed at that same rate as everyone else. I think alot of people don't realize this and it makes a big difference in your take home pay especially if you are a high earner. Most states use a progressive scale similar to the federal's. Perhaps that is why there are so many filthy rich folks here in MA...
I think the term "taxachussets" came from the fact that neighboring NH has some of the lowest taxes in the country so by comparison to that state MA seems to have unsually high taxes but in reality relative to the rest of the country like one of the commentators mentioned, it actually falls around the middle for tax burden.
I think people in MA like jump on the bandwagon easily when they hear a term like "taxachussets" but they probably have never lived anywhere else so they really have no base to compare to.
But what MA does like to do with taxes is they nickel and dime you with obscure taxes such as the "excise tax" you have to pay every year for owning a car. I don't know of any other state that has this tax.
I have also heard MA has some the highest licensing fees for businesses and it is an expensive state to do business overall.

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Our high taxes are what go to the red states via the fed. In terms of state burden, MA lands near the middle and has for years.

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I'll put this as simply as I can - we don't have high taxes.

There. It's not a complicated proposition.

As a pejorative, the term "Massachusetts Liberal" seems to have come into widespread circulation during the 1988 Democratic Primary, as Al Gore and Dick Gephardt attempted to demonstrate their electoral viability by denigrating Mike Dukakis. The idea was to link Dukakis to Teddy Kennedy and Tip O'Neill, thus establishing a typical Massachusetts type. During the overheated rhetoric of the campaign, the term "Massachusetts Liberal" became a virtual shorthand for three ideas:

  • Soft on crime: Dukakis' commutations, paroles, and weekend passes became a potent issue, as did his opposition to capital punishment
  • High taxes: In his first term, Dukakis broke a pledge by raising the sales tax. Anger over high property taxes led to Prop 2 1/2 and his primary defeat in 1978
  • Cold-blooded wonkishness: Dukakis was accused favoring wonkish solutions without understanding the emotional core of issues. The 'tank-helmet incident' and the death penalty question were particularly damaging in this respect

Read through the comments thread above, and you'll find repeated echoes of all three of these points. Commenters suggest that Massachusetts has unusually high taxes, that we coddle the disadvantaged, and that liberals are tone-deaf on how their favored policies impact others.

That's the thing about stereotypes - they take a while to produce, and tend to linger long after they have any correspondence with reality. In truth, our tax burden today is middling - neither particularly high nor low, compared to that of other states. We do have more liberal social welfare policies than the national average, but then again, we're also a vastly wealthier state than the national average. We have the third highest per-capita-GDP, but we rank only tenth lowest in percentage of poor residents, and 22nd in welfare recipients. In other words, we're a state with an unusual concentration of wealth toward the upper levels, coexisting alongside a more typical degree of poverty. It's not surprising that this has tended to produce a set of policies that favor some forms of downward redistribution - or that these policies play very differently in states that are less wealthy or have larger poor populations. As for liberals being tone-deaf, that's always been slightly off kilter. The truth is that this 'liberal' trait is one with a long history in the state, dating back to the Progressive Republicans of the turn of the century. It's better explained as a preference for expertise and professionalism. And it's a real tension that plays out within our state-level politics, between pols with a gut-level connection to voters, and those with carefully planned policy programs. Ironically, in recent years, it's been our Republicans who have better fit the mold - the Bill Welds and Mitt Romneys have won office on the strength of their policies, despite their conspicuous inability to connect with ordinary people or to understand the street-level impact of those policies.

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I was pretty confused by the taxes here when I moved up from Georgia last summer. I had been told by fellow southerners, "have fun in Taxachusetts," so I expected to have to pay more, but sales tax here is 6.25% with no tax on grocery items.

It was about 7% in Atlanta, with 3-7% on groceries, depending on where you bought them, since there was very little consistency with food items.

And I haven't crunched all of the numbers yet, but I'm taking home about 10% percent more after taxes from a job that pays slightly less (I'm talking about a $500 annual difference).

I'm wondering if the perception of high taxes has anything to do with embedded taxes, such as a great tax on gas per gallon, or the taxes on cigarettes that are almost non-existent in the South.

I'm not a smoker, so I don't know how much they cost here, but in Georgia $3 is typical for a pack.

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Please correct me if I am wrong, but MA didn't pass gay Marriage, it was a court ruling making it legal.

Vermont and New Hampshire were the only state so far to legislatively pass gay marriage (Maine did, but the voters overturned it.)

All other states that have voted on it have shot it down.

That said, civil rights should never be something the majority can vote on.

See: Majority Tyranny.

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Someone who thinks eccentric, subjective questions posed by an individual belong in a real or virtual chat room somewhere other than here.

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This thread is mind numbingly hilarious.

The plain and simple answer is it's a political slur. A talking point. A way to project feelings onto a person or group you know little about, and define a counter ideology.

The comment here say just as much.

We're seeing these adjectives added to the front, because the evil boogyman of librul has lost it's punch recently. It's why it's almost completely been dropped in favor of Communist, Marxist, Fascist (all interchangeable btw...!?)

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but i'm afraid many of us have forgot what liberal really means...

http://www.liberalparty.org/JFKLPAcceptance.html

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