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Chelsea cops don't like photographers in public spaces

Bostonist reports on a photographer who spent some time at a waterfront park in Chelsea taking photos then found himself blocked in by two cruisers with cops who warned him they better not catch him there again because it's "a protected area," then asked him to delete his photos - and show them his camera so they could make sure he really deleted them.

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Comments

Y'mean, like this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13258518@N04/2197401602/

Shot in July 07. Posted in January 08. Any and all Chelsea officers, you are welcome to contact me for a followup investigation. It'll be a hoot; I know dirty words in many languages (and they're also, in most circumstances, protected speech).

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The only way to teach these idiots a lesson is to sue them.

He was arrested (detaining for the license check and the photo questioning is an arrest) and his civil rights were violated by the police interfering with a protected right.

It may not be a million dollar case, but it will give these cops pause before they free-lance on the law.

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We dont know if he really was blocked in or if the cops took the available spaces that were around him in this area with limited tight parking. It also doesnt sound like they demanded or stopped his movement, they asked to see the camera. Even by his own account this is circumstantial at best.

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Although I could see the chelsea police stopping this guy for taking pictures that someone probably called to say was suspucious, and I believe that they probably asked him for an ID, I don't beleive the chelsea police cared enough to ask for the camera or see the pictures or especially delete the pictures. Chelsea cops dont care whats on the film in this case. They might have wanted to see the equipment to make sure it was just photo equipment, I simply don't believe the whole story here.

And detaining someone for ID purpuses is not an "arrest" per MA or US law, although it is a legal "seizure" if he were in fact not free to leave.

But you can bet some private citizen called about the guy about the equimpent he had in a park. The police went and asked the guy what he was doing there.

Too bad no one asked what Tim McVeigh was doing in the area of the federal building 12 years ago....

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Cops accused of acting like asshats? Pete's on the case, offering explanations and excuses and any sort of Police State PR he can muster.

Surely there must be some other explanation, as all cops are either incapable of being bullies and making up whatever law they find convenient to make up to harass people, or do anything illegal - ever.

Not like a Chelsea cop has found trouble anywhere recently. Yeah.

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and of course on the other side resides yourself and others who always assume that of course the cops and local residents are wrong...

There is a massive LNG facility over there and lots of other things that can blow up if ignited. If someone gets stopped every so often for a few questions and that keeps a few cities from blowing up I dont see the harm.

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That would have to be one mighty flash.

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Terrorist plan attacks and photos are a big part of that plan. If cops "harass" them in that stage by asking them a few questions and asking for identification, it might be enough to disrupt the whole attack. I feel bad for those of you who are too naive to realize this.

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The best view of that LNG facility is from the Charlestown side of the Mystic. It is very visible from Medford Street and you can see it better from the steep park and the pool. They use a boom to hook up the tankers.

The tankers arrive on a regular schedule.

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Please don't say "LNG" and "boom" so close together.

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Now go to google maps, click on satellite, search for "mystic river Boston" and zoom straight in to take a look at the nice little tanker and LNG facilities shown there.

Now explain why photos taken from a nearby park are somehow dangerous when there is a high quality satellite photo available to anybody with a net connection?

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I guess your right again, because of course all terrorists walk around with ski masks dressed in black. There has never been a case of terrorism where the terrorists were dressed like normal people, or hidden inside a giant horse, or driving a uhaul van filled with explosives. I also forgot the other rule of terrorism because we all know that all terrorists are muslim and wear head scarves as they say "death to america, death to america." There has never been a white terrorist in the United States, and they surely no buildings have ever been brought down in this country by a non muslim. Innocent looking white people have never been involved in anything heinous so we should leave them alone, even if it is possible that they look suspicious.

Yes 99 percent of the people out there are good, but there is that 1 percent you have to worry about and they can look like anyone, even uppity white people with cameras. Get over yourselves.

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Someone please answer this. I just don't see how taking a photo of something can cause it to blow up. Especially when there's a substantial amount of water between the photographer and the target.

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Have you forgotten the Oklahoma City bombing in April 1995? 168 dead, including many kids in day care. I don't recall Timothy McVeigh being Muslim. One of the saddest days in America's history prior to 9/11.

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I was obviously alluding to that, and was making a sarcastic comment

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Your right is ... hmmm...

Right of free speech!

The Amazing Kreskin will be here all week.
Thenk you, thenk you.

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Swirly is wrong to think that outdated google map photos taken from orbit (or however high) are going to show the tiny details (hole in fence, rocks in water, barbed-wire fence, steep drop-off, broken spotlight...or whatever obstacle or weakness in the defense) that may be key in making an approach. An on-sight, ground level photo survey of the site is the best way to see all the little details that an attacker needs to know ahead of time. This is common knowledge to anyone with common knowledge.
But, if she can put in her 2-cents when it comes time to make cops look bad (see her other cop hating statements above) you can bet she will be there to add a disparaging remark.

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but I don't beleive they took the guys pictures away or even cared what pictures he had.

Remember swirly, Ive heard what people call into the police for and what the actual situation is....in fact, Ive seen it thousands of times.

Just don't believe everyting you hear on either side.

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If so, there should be signs posted saying so. I'm sure there aren't any. I've been there.

In the absence of any such sign (and a law backing up the sign), anyone can take photos of anything they want at any time.

(nitpick: it's Mary O'Malley park, not Mark O'Malley)

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But you coulda just let us know. We like nitpickers.

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I would have left a comment at Bostonist, except that I forgot my Bostonist login name and password ;-(

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My students shot a music video there, coincidentally, right around this time last spring. Nobody bothered them even though they had to have been there quite a while. The video starts and stops looking into the sunset reflecting in the water with the power plant on the horizon. Strange. Last year was post 9-11, too.

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What to say.

Officer is what I am doing illegal?

If yes, then why would you want me to delete photo evidence of the crime i have committed.

If no, then why can i not continue to photograph.

Simple logic sets the world free.

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you suddenly had to actually pay a before-work bar tab at King Arthur's Lounge.....

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o'ammley park is adjacent to the lng port which has been a major focus for terrorism related activity and one of the closest guarded area in MA by federal agents. probably why he was stopped. remember the guys taking pictures around sensitive areas in dc that got arrested several years ago?

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it's O'Malley, and it's a public park. That means it's open to the public for people to do anything legal that isn't specifically prohibited by a posted sign. There might possibly be signs prohibiting smoking, or unleashed dogs, or golfing, or staying after 11 pm, but there sure aren't any signs that prohibit taking photographs.

Also, it's not adjacent to the LNG port. There's a substantial inlet in between, and no bridge across the inlet.

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i can tell from your comments that you're very intellectual but rather than worrying about typos, try to figure out what adjacent means in this context. yeah, there's water in between the park and the facility but its still one of the clearest views of the fill point. you just can't take pictures of whatever you want anymore. its not some big chelsea police witch hunt trying to deprive innocent photographers of their constitutional rights, just a few cops trying to protect a site sensitive to terrorism from photography. and if you don't know the importance of that, then its a waste even replying to you.

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does banning photography stop terrorism? You realize there are publicly available high-resolution satellite images of just about everywhere, right?

http://1smootshort.blogspot.com

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is there some way my taking a photograph can trigger a hidden bomb somewhere? I don't get it.

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Interesting write-up on Photographers rights. Maybe it is just like the NYC bridges.

http://www.kantor.com/blog/Legal-Rights-of-Photogr...

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Joe made it clear that he had not been placed under arrest. The main issue is that he felt coerced into showing the police the photos and then deleting them when instructed. Without probably cause this is a violation of his 4th amendment rights. Even the police officer from Internal Affairs agreed that the cops should have been specific that Joe was under no obligation to show/delete his photos which is not how the situation was presented to Joe while at the park.

I am in contact with the MA ACLU about a followup on photographer's rights here in MA.

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"That means it's open to the public for people to do anything legal that isn't specifically prohibited by a posted sign."

its not legal to take photographs of potential high risk terrorism sites. people know this. nyc bridges, power plants, military installations, etc. but maybe signs are appropriate to explain obviously stupid behavior to others.

and last time i checked, this guy didn't get arrested. they just made him delete the pictures of the plant. so what's the issue? and spare me the constitutional rant. yeah, i got that law degree without being taught that photography of power plants was an enumerated right or a right contained under the penumbral rights.

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Please cite the law in question. Is it federal, state, or city ordinance?

I don't understand how taking a photo of anything can be "stupid behavior" as long as it isn't distracting (for instance, flash photography in a subway station) or obstructive (tripods on sidewalks)

NYC bridges are some of the most photographed sites in the whole world.

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its not legal to take photographs of potential high risk terrorism sites. people know this. nyc bridges, power plants, military installations, etc.

Oh, really? That's news to me. And what's a high-risk terrorism site? "Sorry, sir, no photos allowed at Fenway Park, too many people gathered in one place, it's a risk in this new world we live in." "Sorry, sir, no photos during the July 4 fireworks, with half a million people along the banks of the Charles we just cannot take that chance."

For what it's worth, it's only the MTA-run bridges that have signs saying no cameras allowed on the bridge (and even that's dubious whether it could be upheld if challenged), and you're free to take whatever photos you want of those bridges off the bridge property. The Brooklyn Bridge, probably the most famous bridge in the world? Snap away, no restrictions there.

they just made him delete the pictures of the plant. so what's the issue?

bostonian123, the cops will be arriving at 9:00 at your residence to look through your bookshelves and computer to make sure you have nothing dangerous in there. And if they find something suspicious, no harm, they'll just make you trash it.

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For a person who claims to have a law degree, you sure do seem fairly ignorant about the law. I am sure you really do have a law degree too since everything everyone claims about themselves online is always true.

Can you cite a law, regulation, or ordinance that states taking a photo of a "high risk terrorism site" is against the law? Is there a list of "high risk terrorism sites" somewhere for reference?

"people know this" is that a new type of law? If you are going to claim something then please show sources and references for your claims.

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the cops bullying him to delete his pictures is what is wrong. the cops are wrong in this case.

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its been awhile since ive seen someone charged under this, but i believe the people in d.c. were charged under 18 U.S.C. 2339A. expanded powers under the patriot act allow not only federal but state and local law enforcement officers wider latitude in investigating potential violations to this and other domestic terrorism statutes. the problem with this situation was it probably was an illegal search and seizure of his camera but the patriot act allows them to do it warrantlessly and with only res ispa loquitur probable cause (the act itself suffices for probable cause). until the supreme court looks at each of these situations one at a time, the subsection in the patriot act that authorizes the expanded power continues to operate with a presumption of constitutiality.

to clear up some confusion, im not saying people can't photograph potential terrorism sites. you can if you want to and you'll most likely not be charged with a crime. just prepare to have the feds up your ass making sure you're not a terrorist.

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We'll be discussing this issue of police harassing photographers and videographers on News Talk Online on Paltalk.com Tuesday April 7 at 5 PM New York time.

Please go to my blog, http://www.garybaumgarten.com and click on the link to the chatroom to join in the conversation and sound off.

Thanks,

Gary

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Good blog entry. A few opinions in response from someone who used to be an aspiring photojournalist in the relatively safe city of Boston (addressing amateurs and novices, not seasoned professionals):

* Avoid crime-ridden hellholes like Detroit and Miami. :)

* If you must be in those places, be especially sensitive to the delicacy of situations like rioting, an officer down, or an officer doing something that might appear improper. You don't want to get on the business end of someone's stressed attempt to regain control of the situation. Do it if it's your job, or there's a moral imperative, but accept that you might get smacked down.

* Don't knowingly photograph undercover cops without a good reason. (One time, after I raced to the scene after a drug bust, I saw obviously undercovers with badges around their necks help search for evidence. I stood out of everyone's way and let my cameras conspicuously hang down while I waited for an image good and newsworthy enough, or to speak with someone. Nothing interesting happened that time, but afterwards I figured that the next time I encountered some of the same guys at a news scene, they'd recognize me and at least know that I wasn't a total idiot loose canon. Mutual respect can help when it's an officer's discretion on how close to let you get to a scene or whether to tell you what's going on.)

* Cops are trained observers, like good photographers. If you're biased against cops in general, assume they'll pick up on that when you interact with them, which can complicate your job. (Personally, I wouldn't want to live anywhere that I didn't think the cops were good-to-great, so that was never a problem for me.)

* On things like photographing government buildings, it can't hurt to to have state-issued media credentials and an editor to back you up.

* If you're photographing government buildings and 'sensitive' structures, then politeness, a cool head, and knowing your rights are important. In 9 years of heavy photography around town (first urban, then news), I was approached a few times, and *many* times security/police kept an eye on me, but nobody ever asked me to delete a photo.

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Ahhhh so your saying cops are... um people. Ya know people who tend to get defensive when you push them and start being a jerk to them. I think you have a very reasoned approach, and Ive always found that cops back down and leave you alone when you go into the discussion with a little bit of respect for what they have to deal with all day.

I think allot of people forget that even in "safe" cities like Boston cops come across thugs with guns, drug dealers, domestic abuse situations, and a whole list of other crazy things all day long. It must be incredibly stressful for them, I think the last thing they need at the end of their shift is to come across someone who gives them a hard time when they are just following orders from above. Im not saying this photographer egged the cop on but Ive seen it happen often enough with friends or others where the person gets offended the moment the cop comes over and asks a question. The people who get defensive and upset are the ones who have a hard time overall, but the ones who approach the situation with a cool head are generally left alone.

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If they were wearing badges doesn't that make them 'not undercover' ?

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Most undercover keep their badge on a chain or other attachment that lets them put it on visibly at the time that they're springing their trap or supporting other units. Cops have to display their badge to effect an arrest. There's case law that says they basically have to positively identify themselves as an official Officer or you don't have to listen to them ("It's not my fault I didn't know he was a cop when I saw a man with a gun chasing me").

Your question may actually be why I hear them described as "plain clothes" more often than "undercover" (which suggests infiltration of a crime organization, acting under a different persona, etc).

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Yes, I'm not going to describe their appearances, but I did mean "undercover" rather than "plainclothes."

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