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Sub-freezing temperatures no reason to open restaurant doors to customers after closing hour
By adamg on Tue, 03/02/2010 - 12:01pm
The Boston Licensing Board criticized a small Allston pizza shop whose owner says stayed open nearly two hours late one night because some regulars showed up at his door in 15-degree weather.
Boston Police Lt. Eric Eversley told the board this morning he was patrolling Allston around 2 a.m. on Jan. 10 when "an unidentified citizen" flagged him down to report that Charlie's Pizza & Cafe, 177 Allston St., was still open, despite a licensed closing time of 1 a.m.
Eversley said when he arrived at 2:50 a.m., the pizzeria was still open, with at least six patrons inside and music playing.
Owner Charlie Succar, acknowledged letting the customers in well after his normal closing time. "I let them in, they were regular [customers], I know them very well, it was 15 degrees cold." He admitted he fired up his pizza oven again to warm up the two pies he had left to feed them. Employees were still at work, partly to close up, partly because the restaurant is licensed to deliver food until 3 a.m., he said.
Board Chairman Daniel Pokaski allowed as how Succar was just trying to do a good thing, but said rules are rules and that Succar can only open the doors in an extreme emergency: "I don't care if it's freezing, you just can't do it," he said. "Otherwise, it's chaos," because before you know it, all sorts of restaurants and bars start opening up later to help out regulars.
The board will decide Thursday what action, if any, to take.
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Comments
"you just can't do it," he
"you just can't do it," he said. "Otherwise, it's chaos," because before you know it, all sorts of restaurants and bars start opening up later"
...And that's such a horrible thing why? Does Mr Pokaski realzie we live in a "world class" city and not everyone lives the 9-5 here?
Pokaski was a pinhead when.
he was the Clerk of the Court and he's a bigger pinhead now. He's a world class example of if you hang around long enough and kiss enough ass, eventually you'll get a seat at the table.
Hurray for curfew!
It's great to know that we enforce the deadening of our streets and the squelching of private enterprise after midnight. That's smart regulation!
"Otherwise, it's chaos"
Restaurants and bars open later. Chaos!
Really? Is a pizza place
Really? Is a pizza place being open past closing really a problem? "Rules is rules!"
they're allowed to "deliver" until 3:00
So they delivered to the sidewalk.!
And it was so cold out there , the customers had to come inside.
What the hell is so wrong with a pizza place staying open that late, as long as they don't create a nuisance for the residents in the area.
What I want to know is...
...who's the (expletive) douche that flagged down a cop to tell them that the shop was open? If you're up at one in the morning, then clearly you're not the kind of person who should have a problem with this, right?
Maybe
They were pissed off that they weren't invited to the pizza party?
Are the cops happy with this?
Hard to find good places to eat for night shift lunch.
Not this place
It's kind of out of the way (well, as out of the way as anything in Allston can be).
Was wondering the same thing
At 15F no less. Who's taking a walk at that hour in that weather? Either someone associated with a competing establishment, or some other prick who couldn't mind their own damn business.
Should the city regulate business hours at all?
I don't see why it should matter to the city, or to local residents, what hours a non-alcohol-serving establishment are open.
It shouldn't matter to the city
But this is Boston, where common sense and free enterprise are against the law.
Here's why
Restaurants do make noise. So do their patrons. In a city like Boston, where you've got restaurants in residential areas in a number of locations (the pizza place in question, for example, is surrounded by apartment buildings), why shouldn't a city make rules to protect those residents, so they can get a decent night's sleep? And given how tight parking is there (I say this as somebody who used to live right up the street from that location), you can bet there'd be a lot of late-night double parking and idling.
I'm not saying the rules in place now are necessarily right, or appropriate in all locations (look at the South Street Diner, where people moved next door because it was part of an environment they wanted), but just as we have zoning to prevent industrial plants from being built in residential neighborhoods, surely we can come up with rules that do protect those areas that want protection.
But at what point does
But at what point does overzealous regulation stifle an entire city? It's this kind of zoning that keeps boston semi-suburban. If peace and quiet are high on your list, not living near commercial interests might be a better approach. Also, having businesses open later is also sometimes credited with keeping some crime down, at least theoretically. This early closing time stuff just makes Boston seem like a joke. With rules like this, the only thing it's the HUB of is people's bedtime.
I'm not saying shut the entire city down at midnight
But just like the city has zones for different types of buildings, maybe there should be something similar for late-night hours. So Harvard Avenue becomes a 3 a.m. (or later) zone, but Allston Street stays at 1 a.m.
Red herring alert!
"just as we have zoning to prevent industrial plants from being built in residential neighborhoods, surely we can come up with rules that do protect those areas that want protection."
Red herring alert!
Industrial plants are often bad for a neighborhood. Pizza joints, like all local eateries, are often good for a neighborhood. So what are we protecting "those areas that want protection" from - the convenience of late night pizza? Many would agree that a few decibles of additional noise and flashers of double parking at 2am associated with a pizza shop are more than offset by the convenience of having a late-night pizza shop. After all, the place wouldn't be open at 3am (for regulars - most likely nearby residents!) if there weren't demand for it.
And for those who don't agree, Waltham has some lovely subdevelopments.
Who was there first?
I'll bet the pizza shop has been there a lot longer than most of the residents. I don't tell people where to live, and neither does the owner of the shop.
It's not an outdoor bazaar. I don't believe for a second that six customers, employees, and music inside an exclusively commercial building made any noise that could be heard outside the building on the street, let alone by somebody inside the walls of a neighboring building. It's not Harper's Ferry.
The person who phoned in the complaint should go live somewhere else. I don't want him/her as my neighbor, and I'm sure that if such a matter were put to a vote, this person would find that they have few friends.
Minor correction
I bet there are quite a few people there who remember when that particular location was a drugstore, not a pizza place.
You have six people until
You have six people until others realize that this place does that. I can see how it could go from 6 to 12 to 18 and so forth. The question is also, was the pizza place there longer then the homes? This is not like the diner scenario where the surrounding buildings BECAME condos long after the diner was already running 24/7. If the homes were there longer then the pizza place and the pizza place has always closed at a certain time then the reasonable expectation is that the pizza place should close at that time even if the resident change. Homes must be filled for a safe and healthy community. Of course if the pizza place went to late night hours and THEN a new home was built next door that is a different story.
I'm sorry but smart urban
I'm sorry but smart urban planning can't be based on who's there first. Cities are organic, and should be able to grow and expand (and contract) based on needs and supply and demand. Just because a building is one thing in one decade, shouldn't mean it can't be something else in the future (or next to something else). Look at SoHo right now. It's a vibrant shopping district, raking in tons of tax dollars, providing jobs, becoming a destination and adding to a thriving city. In the 70's it was more industrial, in the 80's it was a wasteland. Saying because this house was here first the place next door can't make pizza sounds a lot another questionable practice - space savers for snow parking. It's a self-interested practice at the expense of society at large.
Going from Industrial to
Going from Industrial to housing is different then going from housing to something else. Housing and apartments may not easily convert over to other uses. Office space and doctors offices have found homes in those nice old homes along many main streets across the state but other housing is harder to convert. So if you allow an area to become intolerable to stable residents you create a situation where people will only live there as a last resort and then move as soon as they can. Sounds like a good way to send an area right down the drain.
I am not taking sides on the pizza debate but if one pizza place makes 50 units of housing less tolerable to live in late at night how does that help that neighborhood?
On one hand I agree with
On one hand I agree with those that want more control because people want to sleep and park at night. When it is you that has to wake up at 6am the next day for work, yes some people have to work on Saturdays, then peace and quiet at 2 am becomes a laudable goal. When your the college kid it is not.
The problem is on the other hand these local places only get out of hand if they are open late because most places are already closed. If the city lifted the rules a little across the city people would not have to swarm to one little 24 hour diner or look for places that are lax with their closing times. By only allowing a few places the luxury of being open late the city is creating a huge problem in those few areas as they become the only game in town.
I totally agree with your
I totally agree with your second paragraph. By limiting the restaurants and other late night spots to just a few, it becomes a magnet for everyone. Growing up in a smaller town north of philadelphia, the only thing open really late was a few diners, so everybody converged there.
But on the first, if you're looking to move into the area, and want peace and quiet, Alston probably isn't the best choice.
Regulate noise, not hours
If the restaurant is so poorly insulated that the sounds of its ovens, fans, refrigerators, et al. leak out to the street, then the city and the restaurant should address that problem.
THere is so little traffic after midnight that I don't see double-parking as a problem at all.
I would not live on a busy street in Allston if I really valued peace and quiet.
Exactly. Why not allow
Exactly.
Why not allow everyone to set their own hours and then limit that freedom if a restaurant causes trouble?
You're allowed to have guests in your home at any hour. If at 3am your guests are making too much noise, you get a citation.
Lets do the same with restaurants. If things get out of control...cite them.