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New Red, Orange Line cars won't let riders slide around in seats

Not the seats we'll get on the Red Line

These are only placeholder seats.

As officials from the MBTA and CRRC, the company building our new Red and Orange Line cars, awaited a visit from the governor this afternoon, they explained the mock up on display on City Hall Plaza has something the actual cars won't: Shiny, slippery fiberglass seats that make riders feel like they're going to get closer than they want to to their neighbors on curves and coming into stations.

Officials said the actual trains scheduled to go into service, some on the Orange Line by the end of the year, will have more nubbly seats, similar to those on new T buses, to keep people from sliding around. Officials added that they're looking at possibly replacing current Blue Line seats with slide-proof versions - but during a mid-life overhaul, which could be a ways off.

The mock-up Red Line car will be on display at City Hall Plaza during the day through Thursday.

Flags in place for the governor's arrival:

Front of a new Red Line car

All abooooard! The new cars will have wider doors to speed up getting people in and out:

Entering a new Red Line car

This kid would be a perfect driver - he was able to recite the elevator directions for Park Street flawlessly - although normally the new cars will rely on automated announcements:

Driving a new Red Line car

His right hand was on the lever that runs the train - which has a "dead man's switch" that requires the driver to have the knob pulled at a 90-degree angle - if he releases that, because he's just died, the train stops.

Control panel

In addition to getting knobby surfaces, seats will have releases to put them up for people in wheelchairs or with baby strollers:

New Red Line car
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Comments

I'm bringing my own portable lightweight personal stadium seat gripper pad.

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Voting closed 3

Some leg-spreader will be taking up a seat and a half, with his or her bag in the remaining space.

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See the way to do it right is to sit one seat away next to a real big person that way you know nobody's going to wedge themselves in between the both of you and that way you are guaranteed to get extra free space to yourself. But not a good win if the big person has B.O. or bad breath or likes to talk really loudly to himself and other passengers.

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Voting closed 20

until they do. I've seen it happen. And with an equally large person....

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Voting closed 17

Kind of defeats the purpose of a mock up if they aren't even showing the actual materials they will be using.

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First people claim that they're not really taking comments from the public, then when they announce the seats are changing (presumably due to some public comments), people want to know why the mock up isn't accurate.

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stated the seats were a "placeholder", and admitted they're not the correct ones. They didn't say "Oh, we're changing the seats because of customer feedback."

Big difference there.

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The folks I spoke to did not use the word "placeholder," that's me talking there. They said CRRC just wasn't able to get the bus-like seats ready in time for the Red Line mock up to be shipped here.

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Voting closed 32

...I had really wondered how well those seats would work.

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The statement is, "There will be new red line cars coming sometime. They will be something like this, but mostly different. But they will definitely be red. Or partly red."

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Voting closed 41

getting a sinking feeling that there is less seating available, in general, with these new cars?

So now more folks can stand for when the red line is experiencing technical difficulties. Good Times.

Looks like the seats are, ahem, wider to accommodate our larger, in general, lower girths?

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Voting closed 12

The fewer seats the better, if you ask me.

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Voting closed 34

Less seats, more hanging grippers please

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Let the young and vigorous be the measure of all things.

To hell with your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning for ease,
The wretched refuse can sit on the floor.
Your poor seatless bastards get no help from me,
I shove them aside and stand in the door.

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Voting closed 9

Leaning against the rail so that nobody can hold on to it.

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Voting closed 30

There's a difference between "fewer seats" and "no seats".

Of course there should still be some seats. But imagine how many fewer people would get left behind on platforms every morning if we took out just half the seats in each car!

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Chair users can maneuver on the cars much more easily if there are fewer seats.

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There's currently no sitting for the tired, elderly, pregnant, handicapped now anyway, so what's the difference? The young and vigorous are pretending they are engulfed in their tech devices as they hog up all the seats next to the f******g doors!!

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Fewer seats = more standees = higher capacity per train = can run fewer trains.

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I think from the released specs they will have both more seats and more standing room.

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These will have more standing room and less seats.

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Because the doors and seats are wider than on current vehicles. The seats on the current vehicles are 17 inches wide, whereas they are 19 inches wide on the new cars. There are also 4 spaces to accommodate wheelchairs.

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Voting closed 21

The Red Line does not need wider seats. Orange Line, maybe, but not Red.

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mistake

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We have to wear full-body winter coats once in a while ... like 100 days out of 300.

We need wider seats.

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Pretty much ever other transit system that I have ridden has fewer seats than the MBTA tries to cram in.

That makes it difficult for people in wheelchairs to maneuver, and for people with walkers and strollers and grocery carts to board and navigate the bus or car.

The T also seems to forget that we are sturdy and spongy Americans - with wide shoulders, wide rumps who wear winter coats a good portion of the year. They try to cram in seats airline style - make them too narrow for even an average size person to sit in a single one.

I'd rather see fewer, wider seats and more room for people who need the room to maneuver.

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The nostalgia fans around here should want slippery red line seats/benches!

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You got to cut your ribbon, and now you need never trouble yourself with public transit and the nobodies who depend on it until the next ribbon needs cutting

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Voting closed 68

Probably the closest he's ever been to a subway car.

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Charlie refuses to take public transit because he is a "point to point" guy, meaning he points at new trains and says "looks shiny" and then points at his SUV when he wants someone to open the door for him.

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Voting closed 55

A. Pressley was dead on. The Globe reverberated the issue. Charlie is avoiding the nuts & bolts. In the meantime, Mikey Capuano gave the wheel over to the nut jobs at the ITDP, CLF, and T4. Its why we have lobbyist transit garbage like the SL3 and GLX while our core bus lines suffer. Perhaps after November Charlie may change his tune. When his PAC & single donor structure switches

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Voting closed 10

BLAH BLAH BLAH GLX BLAH BLAH TREES BLAH GLX BLAH BLAH NOT FAIR BLAH CASHING IN BLAH BLAH BLAH GLX BLAH

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??

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There are old social media & media posts about how 1000 trees are being cut down to make room for the GLX. The irony is. The Conservation Law Foundation pushed the Green Line Extension as an air improvement project. 1000 trees are being cut down and nearly every GLX corridor bridge has to be reconstructed for the streetcars to run underneath each road crossing. In a nutshell, the GLX shows the dangers of giving advocates a pack of markers and saying draw what you want.

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*eye roll*

Seriously where do you get this stuff?

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Don't mess with the pure comedic genius of the GLX troll.

It's all about the GLX.
It's all about the GLX.

Yet somehow, after referencing Pressley, he still hasn't told us what she said about the project when she asked her. I was along the line recently. Didn't see any Pressley signs, either.

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Between the bridge lifts, the airport traffic, the tunnel traffic, and the seaport back-and-forth; the 111 bus is downright awesome

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In Charlie's defense, another Charlie became stuck on the MTA way back when in a folk song (which, for anyone who doesn't know, is where the Charlie card/ticket system got its name) and never returned, so he probably doesn't want to spend too much time on a train in case he becomes Charlie on the MBTA.

Oh did he ever return? No, he never returned...

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if folks don't want to sit in pools others' sweat.
Spoken from experience.

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If you're lucky.

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Maybe, but this is so much better than the cloth seats on the Orange Line that probably haven't been cleaned since the 70s. At least you can wipe these off, those cloth seats have just soaked up decades of that.

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The cloth seats are a relatively new addition to the orange line. I can’t remember exactly when they were installed but I’d guess 6 years ago, give or take. Prior to that, for as long as I can remember, the seats were black vinyl. The vinyl got vandalized a lot so they switched to the fabric which does not get vandalized anywhere near as frequently but is, as you say, sketchy at best.

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Should we infer something about the fact they covered the train from the rain & sun?

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are not big parts of the life of a subway car. Admittedly the Red Line does cross the river, so they have to go outside occasionally, but mostly they're they indoor type.

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Everything south of Andrew on the Braintree Line is outdoors, as is the stretch between Andrew and Shawmut on the Ashmont Line.

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IMAGE(https://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_960w/Boston/2011-2020/2015/02/09/BostonGlobe.com/National/Images/ryan_snowagain14_met.jpg)

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If not. I'll make sure to correct them during the start of service

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Will the new cars not move like the demo?

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This is actually a good idea, hygiene wise. The fabric on those seats are disgusting. You have instances where people urinate, spill coffee, vomit, and etc; on those seats. I always use a metro before sitting on them. Could you imagine the actual filth buried in that fabric? It would actually save the T some money, they would not have to change the seat covers. Regardless the seats will still be disgusting, but not as bad as the already bacteria infested, pissy seat. Way to go!

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As long as the seat isn't actually wet, who cares? Those seats get cleaned more often than most peoples' couches.

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Was on board. making station announcements. Makes me wonder if he was rhymin the names like he does here..

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Sweet! Now up to 4 people can stand in front of them while you try to get on/off a train!

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Those seats look easier to clean.

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But man do those colors make it look like the inside of a McDonalds.

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Will look even more like that once people start spilling fries all over the floor!

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That dead man switch will work great, until the train operators figure out a way to override it. Trying to stop accidental runaway trains like that seems to be taken as more of a challenge than a safety prescription.

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His right hand was on the lever that runs the train - which has a "dead man's switch" that requires the driver to have the knob pulled at a 90-degree angle - if he releases that, because he's just died, the train stops

Does the mock-up come with a phone cord you can wrap around the controller?

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I agree with roadman and others, what's the point of Charlie Baker bringing out a small, apparently incompatible display that doesn't even have the seating that will be on the real trains? What are they going to do with this when the real trains are built?

This is purely a campaign stunt by Baker. Hatch Act violation? I've mentioned before as a motorist, I only take the T a few times a year but this seems more like a carnival exhibit allowing pedestrians to "play with the controls" on a train that will look nothing like the real ones.

Really shameless by Baker a month before his primary against Dr. Lively. I'm told internal polling for Baker primary is terrible, that's why you're seeing all of the ads and sudden appearances like this, unheard of for a Republican incumbent.

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(n/t)

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Mockups like this are fairly standard in transit rolling stock procurement, and this is far from the first time the T has gotten mockups like this.

In case your memory needs refreshing, you can even still see the mockup of the current Blue Line cars, currently "on display" in a vacant lot in Taunton: https://goo.gl/maps/HMfSDDxwcAm

This has nothing to do with Baker or even politics in general.

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From time to time Free T Day! Or a free weekend, or a free week sponsored by corporate philanthropy. A program to improve local commerce.

For example free admission day https://www.mfa.org/visit at Boston Museum of Fine Arts sponsored by corporate philanthropy, and free admission day likewise at other museums.

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Financially strapped private institutions can subsidize financially strapped public institutions. It’s win-win.

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Asking a non-profit to spend their precious money on T rides is not a good idea.

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They need to paint the front of the trains either white or something safety-fluorescent to help prevent hitting any more humans on the tracks.

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If you can't make it to the plaza, here's a scan of the brochure they're handing out:

https://onefoottsunami.com/hosted/20180815-MBTANewRedLineCarsBrochure.pdf

The included timeline shows the same timeline we've seen before, with no changes or delays thus far. That means:

* December 2018: New Orange Line cars begin to be delivered to the MBTA (not clear if they'll immediately be put into service, but I assume by early 2019 we'll start to see them).

* March 2019: 6 Red Line cars for testing

* November 2019: New Red Line cars begin to be delivered to the MBTA (so early 2020 we should start to see them, or sooner).

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Do they have bike hooks?

They should - these keep bikes out of the way and clear of the doors.

IMAGE(<a href="https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/riderservices/photo_bikeontrain_2.jpg)">https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/riderservices/photo_bike...

People can stand there during rush hour when bikes aren't allowed, and put strollers and luggage there, too.

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