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Battle for Centre Street: People to walk Centre to support 'road diet,' while road-diet protesters hold a standout

A group of West Roxbury residents who say they support the city's plans to slow traffic on Centre Street will hold a "walk and roll" from the post office towards Holy Name Rotary at 5 p.m. on Wednesday.

However, they will stop short of the rotary, where West Roxbury residents who oppose the proposal and who managed to get it killed under the Walsh administration, will hold a standout, to reduce the odds of a confrontation.

In May, Boston officials announced they had revived the basic idea of reducing Centre Street's current four travel lanes to three, with pedestrian islands and new traffic signals and bike lanes, as a way to reduce the odds of pedestrians getting killed or hit by a car while crossing the street.

Opponents say the plan will destroy the street.

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Comments

I can't wait to watch the discourse here.

To those who support the road diet, (and yes, Centre Street should be slowed down, just not to Central Square levels). especially those of you from JP, Roslindale, and Brookline.

We know you are turning up the heat on West Roxbury for political reasons as much as safety reasons. Just please next turn your attention to Blue Hill Ave, Columbia Road, and Seaver Street next.

If not, because those streets have some of the worst speeding in the city, this is nothing but an attempt to politically dominate one part of the city which opposes your politics and nothing else.

You don't give a rat's arse if Ms. O'Houlihan gets hit in front of Roche Bros., its just getting back at those evil West Roxbury people that you don't like.

I would respect a lot of you more if you just admitted it.

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We have already asked for and received hundreds of speed humps in Roxbury, which allow for a little faster travel (about 20 MPH max) compared to traditional speed bumps but have significantly slowed down traffic on side streets.

Our attention has already been focused inward to make our own neighborhoods safer. We don’t use politics to punish people.

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Sure, The speed humps are great there. That's not what I am at.

Now do Blue Hill Avenue. It is called the Roxbury 500 for obvious reasons.

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and John woke up and choose violence. :-)

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SDA has one of their largest area houses of worship on Seaver Street. SDA's day of worship is Saturday.

Seaver Street is unreal for speed. It needs road calming.

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Since my aunt moved about 30 years ago, except for one visit to Roche Bros. I think you greatly overestimate interest in your neighborhood from people who live in other parts of the city. Perhaps it is just an attempt to delegitimize opposition. I do expect that friends and family of that poor woman who was killed by a car several months back will show up.

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When the West Progressives were holding standouts at the same rotary. Tones of people were biking up from JP and Roslindale.

I’m sure you’ll see some noticeable people who seem to attend every bike related advocacy event all across the city.

That lunatic who yells at people during the Roslindale parade and that guy who wears neo yellow glasses and bikes with Wu to work for a photo op are sure to attend.

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Right wing asshole heard from.

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A lot of bikers in the area would show up to events in nearby towns because a lot of bikers go through those towns on commutes or just as part of their bike route. And yeah, some of those people are outspoken advocates who are going to make sure to show up to any events they can, just like other political types.

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“Measures recommended by experts to prevent further deaths depicted as efforts to subvert political power.”

You’re kidding, right?

And, yes, all roads should be made safer for all who use those roads, from delivery trucks to pedestrians.

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“Measures recommended by experts to prevent further deaths depicted as efforts to subvert political power.”

You’re kidding, right?

And, yes, all roads should be made safer for all who use those roads, from delivery trucks to pedestrians.

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So you've imagined a large continent of people from outside West Roxbury who are pushing for the road diet and gotten yourself in a tizzy about them while you yourself live outside of West Roxbury and aren't affected one way or the other by it? It's a nice day, go outside instead of getting angry about things on the Internet, man.

I live just off of Centre Street, walk across it pretty much daily, and it needs to be fixed. It's a death trap. It was never intended to be a 4 car lane road. It was only that wide in the first place because there used to be a trolley running down the middle.

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I live on Park Street, almost 1/2 mile away from Centre St...whenever I do errands between Bank of America and Spring Street, I have to be careful crossing Centre St in that area because I never know how fast the cars go. If I cross at the lights at Corey, Park or LaGrange, I'm fine. If I cross anywhere else (Maple, Hastings, McKenna Place, Quinn Way) without a light, it's a crapshoot.

There was one time when I was crossing from CVS to the bank, and while most drivers decided to stop, one sailed right through...and an unmarked police car followed right behind him and pulled him over. Karma? Yes, indeed.

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Asshole.

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Ha ha ha

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Blue Hill Avenue has had a working group for how to make it safer for the past four years, they’ve been doing community meetings every month for the last year on how to improve it. The process is slow going but it is happening and the city has been trying hard to engage the community. Those other roads should absolutely be slowed too.

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May we all get such punishments.

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I recall you aren't too much a fan of that.

Also speaking of inconsistencies:

We know you are turning up the heat on West Roxbury for political reasons as much as safety reasons.

A few seconds later:

this is nothing but an attempt to politically dominate one part of the city which opposes your politics and nothing else.

So which is it?

Sounds like you're making up people to be angry at again, as we know safe street advocates can only walk or chew gum at the same time. And who would blame them, you gotta keep your head on a swivel with how people use the roads around here!

And you still keep running away from those abelist comments you made, I would respect you more if you just admitted it.

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They do, but isn't Centre worse in terms of accidents between cars and cyclists or pedestrians? If so then it makes sense to address it first but absolutely those streets could use a redesign too.

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Blue Hill ave is pretty much right in the middle of a major redesign with national funding...

Columbia rd absolutely needs a road diet, especially now that mass ave south is being modernized. Would be great to have safe access from JFK Umass to Mass Ave. That opens up safe access all the way into the Hancock building via the southwest corridor/ melnea cass.

Cant speak foor Seaver st, but if its like the rest of the city, yeah modernize it.

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This Is Going To Be Great

Yes it is. Absolutely.

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But I want Centre street to be bikeable. I want the option of biking over there to spend money on groceries, on a Y membership, on any number of restaurants that look tasty. But right now it's not worth the risk. I'll bike to a less convenient but safer destination. I don't want to "get back" at those evil West Roxbury people, I want to spend money at their businesses.

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Live in Roslindale.

But…

I don’t like the Westies that blocked the school on Belgrade, that block any new buildings that aren’t bank branches, that are fighting tooth and nail to keep the six lane Centre St. highway (in no small part to spite the bikers). So sure, Costello, you got me! I dislike the road diet Westies and I want a safer street.

Also, sorry to break it to you but the food in West Roxbury is generally lousy. Porter Cafe is decent, some of the others on that block are ok, but the rest is bland crap. Maybe the safe, walkable Centre will help, Washington is two lanes and has Delfino, Chilacates, Effie’s, a booming farmers market and more.

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then to make up people to be mad about on the Internet. Couldn't be me!

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You clearly haven't seen the discourse surrounding street safety improvements around Nubian Square, which has featured a somehow similar group of NIMBYs claiming to represent "the real neighborhood..." only this time, instead of saying that improved safety is a leftist plot, they claim it's racist gentrification.

The anti-street-safety crowd isn't exactly mapped neatly onto left/right lines, it's mostly people afraid of change who demand extra (endless) process to reassure them that they are being "consulted" and "heard."

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I just want Centre Street to be a safe street to drive down, take the bus to, walk along, and ride my bike at least as safely as I can on Belgrade Avenue, which doesn’t seem like much to ask. I don’t really care who West Roxbury wants for mayor, or president.

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I find this to be hilarious. This question is to Adam the editor of Universal Hub.
As a journalist who confirmed with you that this is a counter protest. Did you personally speak to anyone from Westroxbury safety association?. As a member I can confirm that this stand out was planned a long time ago and you absolutely did not do your due diligence and reach out to WRSA and we are considering this a counter protest against us.
If you would be honest and just tell people that you have a discord with WR residents you would get more respect ,.

The rotary will be filled with West Roxbury residents . The walk and roll will be filled with a lot of outside interest including some WR residents , as you already know.

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You should support returning Centre Street to its original configuration.

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Maybe the BPHC should look into why a disproportionate number of children are hurt in car crashes caused by the city hall residents.

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For starters, no one is a "resident" of City Hall.

But I'd love to see your data set on motor vehicle collisions in Boston where a child was injured and the crash was at the fault of a member of city government.

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You have no point and nothing valid to add to any conversation.

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It appears you love unrepentant lawbreakers.

Piss off you worm.

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My name is John Costello and I support preventable fatalities.

You’re a piece of garbage. There really isn’t a third option here between narrowing Centre and being a piece of garbage.

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https://www.universalhub.com/comment/936777#comment-936777

Did You Grow Up in an HOA development?
By John Costello on Tue, 06/27/2023 - 12:55pm.
You have got strong board member vibes here.

Ever run a stop sign / red light? Even in a car?

Ever go above the speed limit?

Ever jaywalk?

Ever not speak up to the T Ambassador when they fare gate is open and they are not collecting fares?

Ever cheat on your taxes, even just a little bit?

Lighten up for christsakes.

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A “Flaming Strawman” is a phrase that blends together two rhetorical ideas. You might have heard of a strawman argument. Essentially, the idea is you distort your opponent’s views to make them easier to criticize. The technique magnifies, perverts, or fabricates someone else’s intentions altogether. With a strawman, it makes it a lot more convenient to present your own stance as rational.

It becomes a “flaming” strawman when you throw in a derogatory insult for flavor.

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This is what's known as an ad hominem fallacy.

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Resistance to any change for its own sake, and veiled bigotry is the only thing making an anti an anti.

If you don’t see there’s a serious problem with Centre, you’re an ignorant asshole who isn’t worth talking to. You’re worth mockery.

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Calm down pal. I’m assuming your grade school report cards never said “Gets along with others”.

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I'm sorry, Mister Rogers, tell me again where Adam said we have to be nice to each other here, I must have missed that memo.

You know what's really mean? Not preventing auto fatalities because you hate any form of change. The anti's here STILL refuse to explain themselves, and that's why I'm going so hard. Tossing aspersions around, and insults, which is all that they do, is not prosecuting a valid argument. So, there being nothing to argue against, the only thing to do is lob insults. If you don't like that, tough.

I treat Trump supporters even worse than this. You know why that is? Because if you're the type of person who injures other people and derives pleasure from it, you're not going to quit that behavior unless someone is around to fuck YOU up. So that's why I'm acting like this. Call it a labor of love.

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If you're for the Road diet than you're probably one of the parents that their college age kids have panic attacks crossing the street... The Road Diet isn't going to make up for you're failed parenting.... My 8 year old son crosses Centre St with no problem... You know why??? Because I taught him how to cross the street when he was 4 years old. Stop trying to change the world around us to cater to the socially awkward wierdos that can't use crosswalks...

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that the subject line is accurately describing the body text

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I don't have kids. I just want to improve my neighborhood.

"Don't be a pussy" is not an adequate response to the numbers showing that Centre Street is one of the most dangerous streets in the city for pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers.

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Juniah sounds like he has quite the advanced street crossing prowess!!!

Nobody who is good at crossing the street has ever been hit or killed by car. Literally 100% of all pedestrians hit and killed were pretty lackluster street crossers I’m sure.

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It’s always always always the stupid pedestrian’s fault when they get hit crossing the street. Serves them right!
They should call an Uber to get them to the other side of the street. Duh!

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Resistance to this specific change is not the same as resistance to any and every change.

The city's plan

is hyperfocused on traffic accidents and fatalities, which is important, but still needs to be balanced against traffic flow.

This is the really the same argument that was going on during the pandemic. Do you shut down everything, at whatever cost, to optimize for reducing COVID deaths? Or do you keep things open and accept that there will be a human cost to it?

For Centre Street, the lowest hanging fruit is striping intersections with "Don't block the box $1,000 fine camera enforced". There is no reason at all for that to be part of this proposal. The city should just do that tomorrow, no input from the public needed.

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That's quite a take.

Also regarding "no input from the public needed" there currently isn't any laws allowing for traffic camera enforcement. I'd be all for it but right now, it requires input from Beacon Hill, so there's a good deal of public input needed to move that mountain and something tells me the Westie crew might be strongly opposed to those solutions.

https://willbrownsberger.com/automated-traffic-enforcement/

Once again, the opposition has zero resolutions to the dangerous road conditions, color me shocked.

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Good news, the roadway capacity is not expected to change.

This is because 4 lane roads offer considerable opportunities for conflict, slowing down the traffic.

Thus solving your concerns once and for all...

...right?

One can dispute this claim, and that's fine. But this would change the nature of the issue from "a concern" to "I just don't believe it". But as stated I think your main issue appears to be mitigated.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/07/05/metro/west-roxbury-road-diet/

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Just moved to W. Rox.
1. Love it
2. Centre St is terrifying, even crossing with the lights
3. Haven't heard a viable alternative from the protestors
4. Sounds like a lot of political grievance getting in the way of rational thought around this.

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Imagine spending your free time opposing safety improvements that will literally save lives. What the heck is wrong with these people?!

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… I first think wild game connoisseurs who collect and cook fresh road kill.

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But yeah, the one time I've had road deer it was pretty tasty!

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.

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This is all a culture war battle. The opposition is being run by a Trump-supporting member of the Ward 20 Republican Committee - Steve Morris. That’s not a coincidence. He screams about bicyclist communists from Cambridge invading “his” neighborhood. They’re not serious people and Mayor Wu is right to completely ignore them.

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It's good for business too...

Centre street is an awful place to be on foot.

I cannot understand why Centre street businesses are against this one if (and I can acknowledge "if") parking can be preserved to the levels noted.

This will turn an area only fit for traveling through to a place worth arriving at.

If roadway capacity seemingly stays the same, new traffic (capacity) from cyclists and better pedestrian access will expand access to local businesses.

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Maybe Chase bank will hear their pain and decide to fill commercial space. Or maybe another smoothie place that doesn't last. City Hall needs to look at all the commercial space that developers and their top level brokers have left vacant for years. (Eh hem, Velo JP.)

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Look. Let's face it. It's at the point that any method of transportation has been taken over by bad drivers, bad pedestrians, bad scooter operators, and bad cyclists. Y'all guilty of not following the rules and doing what the traffic lights say. Including me. I guess I've lived here too long. This is Boston.

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The judge never allows Kendra Lara to get behind the wheel ever again.

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BPD checks her cell phone usage at the time of the "accident".

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follow up here or in the Boston Globe if she has to pay restitution to the home owner

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Or did you forget to login to your other account?

I'm willing to bet any follow up, including what you stated, will be covered by Uhub and the Globe

Aidan, is that you?!

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He is busy turning a mistrial into a vast left wing conspiracy by law enforcement.

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The anti-road-diet protest was announced first, and the pro-road-diet people say they won't be walking right to the rotary, so: Story rewritten.

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What's next - two income households? strollers on sidewalks taking up valuable white male real estate? A woman mayor - and not from West Roxbury? WHEN WILL IT END???

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