By adamg on Thu., 2/14/2008 - 7:53 am
UPDATE: A.A. has shut down his blog.
A.A., an Israeli now living in Boston, arranged to pick up a dresser and a couple of bookcases found via Craiglist. He reports on his trek to get them - in Mattapan:
... Mattapan was quite a scary experience. We were stared at. Na'ama said panicky "take your [yarmulke] off!" It was generally an unpleasant experience. What we did not know at the time, but my colleagues and friends were glad to point out in a "are you nuts" kind of a way, was that Mattapan is better known by its endearing nickname of "Murderpan". You can guess why. One of my colleagues said she's glad we made it. ...
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Comments
i personally hope this guy
By Anonymous
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:34am
Yeah, that'll help the perception of the neighborhood.
At least then Universal Hub would include a google map of where it happened.
Yeah, because all Irish in
By Anonymous
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:35am
Yeah, because all Irish in Southie are drunk... you're a real winner. Oh wait, I'm sorry! We're applying the double-standard when it comes to ethnic stereotypes! I forgot.
WHOOOSH
By Anonymous
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:03pm
Joke> **WHOOSH**>>
You> >-<
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
not a bright bulb, are you
By Anonymous
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:23pm
so clever!!!
get some balls dude
By bostnkid
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:54pm
post a name so we know which jerk is which.
Irish drunk
By Budayduh
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 3:27pm
Yes the Irish are all drunks and they live in South Boston. Typical bigotry from a blogger boy of the tree-lined streets of some Junior League suburb.
How many of you have lived in Mattapan?
By Suldog
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:42am
I did, off of River Street. Lower Mills, actually, but just feet from the border. 37 years. Many thousands of hours in Mattapan Square and environs. Ate at the Burger King, shopped at the Purity, bought smokes at Sunny's Cigar, bowled at what became Lane's, drank at The Brown Jug and Tom English. OK, that's my cred. Here's my opinion.
Mattapan could easily be a scary place for someone who doesn't know the area. You could be black, white, asian, whatever. Some sections of it are not safe. I wouldn't have any trouble walking any of it because I know it. However, I wouldn't send someone I love there, by themselves, unless I knew where they were going and how well they could handle themselves should a rough situation occur.
Are there wonderful people and places in Mattapan? Of course. Are there horrible people and places in Mattapan. Of course. And prejudices exist all around us, including in Mattapan and among its people. What it comes down to is percentages, just as with any other place. Having lived there, and because of my own ethnic makeup, I can tell you that it has a higher percentage of people and places I would consider dangerous than, say, Wellesley. Not a big surprise.
That a person from another country might find it intimidating? Also not a big surprise.
If you all got down off of your soapboxes and relaxed, you'd probably enjoy the day more. Chill.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Lower Mills represent!
By Lissa Harris
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 2:13pm
Yeah to all of that.
I'm off River Street myself. Love me some Flames and some Chez Vous and some Franklin Park of a Sunday in June. I used to run a lot of errands up and down Blue Hill Ave for a caterer I worked for in the area. And yes, chunks of Mattapan are legitimately scary, especially if your pastiness can be seen from space.
Yup
By Suldog
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 2:32pm
"... especially if your pastiness can be seen from space."
Indeed. My complexion can best be described as "fish belly" :-)
It's not a mark against any particular race or ethnicity. Some white folks might feel less safe in certain areas of Mattapan in the same way that some black folks might feel less safe in certain areas of Southie. It's just the way it is, unfortunately.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
double yup
By Lissa Harris
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 3:04pm
It does indeed cut both ways. My mom's fiance is a ranked chess player who spent thirteen years getting his PhD from Harvard. He has a story about a black chess player he knew who was visiting Boston for a tournament. The guy insisted on rolling up all the windows in the car whenever they drove through Southie. Wouldn't so much as set foot on East Broadway.
Crime? Try infestation.
By Arborway
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:39am
I hate to detract from the emotional debate going on regarding crime in Mattapan, but I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the greater danger from bedbugs.
Used furniture is something I once happily picked up from yard sales, sidewalks and secondhand stores...but not anymore. I never brought home any new roommates with my past acquisitions and, I'd like to make sure that never changes.
right, bedbugs only affect black people? *rolls eyes*
By Anonymous
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:59am
Bedbugs are just as much or more of a problem elsewhere. Allston has huge problems with them, and a coworker who was a student at MIT was living through hell as MIT struggled to kill an infestation in her dorm. It was a months long saga of fumigations.
So again, let's cut the bullshit racism, eh?
Read it again, please
By Ron Newman
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:01pm
Arborway is saying it's a bad idea to buy used furniture anywhere. Allston is probably worse than Mattapan. He didn't say a thing about race.
Anonymity reduces reading comprehension
By adamg
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:02pm
I guess.
If you read the Israeli guy's post
By bobmetcalf
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:59pm
He bought the furniture from a white guy...so
wtf are you talking about?
I pointed this out on his
By Molly
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 2:46pm
I pointed this out on his blog, but folks, he's lived here for ten days.
Ten. Days.
Culture shock will get you every time; can't we just chalk it up more to that than to his being inherently racist?
(I'm not saying he's NOT racist; I don't know...I'm just saying there's the possibility of a more benign explanation.)
Exactly
By Suldog
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 2:49pm
And wouldn't it be nice if all of us - whatever color we might be - gave him a big warm "hello!" ? Might go a long way towards defusing some stereotypes, for those of you worried about such things.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
I understand that when you
By pahkcah02
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 4:23pm
I understand that when you blog you are posting your opinion for the entire planet to read. Without my knowledge or permission, a couple of my blog posts have been plastered across the main page of Universal Hub. This has lead to an onslaught of strangers whom I don't know to judge me because they didn't like one particular blog post.
I don't know who this Israeli in Mattapan is and I certainly don't agree with his opinions. However, he is entitled to his take on Mattapan, albeit a negative one at that. Honestly, this guy probably doesn't even know that Universal Hub picked up his piece, nor that a bunch of strangers are tearing him a new asshole for posting his thoughts.
If you don't like what he or anyone else writes, comment directly on their blog or do a tactful and respectful rebuttal on your own site. Don't viciously attack someone under the cover of anonymity - that's just plain mean.
So, wait...
By Gareth
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 5:35pm
You get the part where when you put something up on teh internets, you are posting it for the entire planet to read... and you don't get the part where other people get to choose where they talk about it?
I guess I approve of you not being the guy who gets to make up the rules.
Unless the entire text of your blog post was copied here...
By Ron Newman
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 5:42pm
Adam doesn't need your permission to cite it and link to it.
True, but ...
By adamg
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 6:07pm
At the same time, somebody who is blogging in her own quiet little world who suddenly gets hubbed (and, yes, I've seen people use that word!) can be open for a bit of a rude awakening. Not necessarily fair to that person - although some people want to be linked here (and I encourage folks to e-mail me with stuff I might have missed) - others might not.
Also, I've also wondered about the whole "comment on UH rather than on the originating site" thing. It's cool for UH, natch, but, well, is it unfair in any way to the blogger who actually wrote what we're talking about? Why shouldn't she get the page views?
Ironically, we're often in that position at work; we get Slashdotted or Dugg or whatever - we certainly appreciate the pageviews we do get, but wonder why people don't stick around on our site.
Not that I'm busy right now whipping myself with a thorn or anything, but at some point, a site becomes big enough to become a potential issue for the other sites it links to (not in a server-overload sense here, UH isn't THAT big, but in terms of the types of comments).
Is it unfair? No.
By Gareth
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 2:22am
The reason we comment here is because there is a group of people here who comment, in whose reactions we are interested. We all want to argue with each other. Sometimes we do stick a comment on the originating blog, which sinks like stone to the bottom of a small pond. There's no point in registering at every Tom, Dick, and Harry blog out there just so you can whistle in the wilderness at a hundred remote locations.
trip to Mattapan
By Lyss
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 9:29pm
How many of you here would eagerly venture into Mattapan? (Especially an unfamiliar part...)
I would!
By Ron Newman
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 9:34pm
I want to ride the trolley again! Especially if it's during a snowstorm.
Me, Too
By Suldog
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 8:58am
I'm so glad they re-opened that line. It was a huge part of my childhood in that neighborhood.
(I know I may sometimes seem to post links to my stuff at the least provocation, but some of you on this thread may find my post concerning a return to my old neighborhood [Lower Mills] of interest in the context of this discussion, so here's the link...
Written August, 2005)
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
I should note that my
By Lyss
Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:38pm
I should note that my personal experience with Mattapan comes from driving through it. It wasn't until I saw a sign saying I was in Mattapan that I realized where I was.
I thought it looked similar to various parts of Roxbury, Dorchester, and JP.
hey cocksucker
By 02129resident
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 7:00am
maybe they were staring at you because you drove on the wrong side of the road?
Wrong
By Ron Newman
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 7:14am
Israel drives on the right, just like the US.
Now, that ain't nice
By Gareth
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 7:36am
If you're going to use slurs, at least keep it in context. According to the rules, Eeka gets to hit you with a leaf rake now.
It starts with the leaf
By Molly
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 8:35am
It starts with the leaf rake, then she gets to hit you with a trowel, then a garden hoe (huh huh), then a chainsaw.
And then
By Gareth
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 8:52am
the soapbox she rode in on.
Ain't nothin' wrong with
By Molly
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 9:49am
Ain't nothin' wrong with some good old-fashioned soapboxin'.
Seriously, though, people toss around comments that are racist/sexist/homophobic/otherwise-prejudiced without intending them to be such or having any idea that they might be taken that way. I mean, look at all the folks so eager to call Mr. A.A. a racist. Personally, I doubt he's a hardcore racist. But 95% of Israel is Jewish or Arab...I'm sure some of them are of African origin but how does that compare with Mattapan's 77% black population*?
I think he wrote what he wrote out of ignorance rather than malice. Likewise, I think that people who state they don't want to know what people do in their bedrooms are speaking from ignorance rather than malice...it honestly doesn't occur to them that people are gay 24/7, not just in their bedrooms. And it doesn't occur to them that it's harmful to constantly hear that we're supposed to just suppress a large part of ourselves so that other folks don't feel uncomfortable. And I don't think there's anything wrong with politely pointing that out.**
*Percentage from cityofboston.gov; does not include multiracial or non-white Hispanic people.
**Disclaimer: I am clearly extremely biased here.
Why can't
By Gareth
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 10:43am
You say these reasonable things in an unreasonable manner so that I can berate you?
I think mr hide-the-yarmulke got such a rise out of people here mostly because of the colossal scale of his ignorance. You drive south to get to South Boston? Personally, I found him more funny than offensive. The AAAH! NEGROES! response is practically slapstick. And, yeah, it seems reasonable to cut the new guy a break.
Some of those anonymice, on the other hand, that's where you get to teh offensive. People who live here ought to know better, and I am truly sick and tired of people calling any neighborhood that isn't lily-white a ghetto.
As for suppressing part of yourself so that other people don't feel uncomfortable, I'll say please don't, because that makes me, for one, feel more uncomfortable. Other people's neuroses shouldn't be your problem, let alone your neurosis. Sometimes when a person feels (s)he can't act natural, (s)he acts unnatural, which makes it all worse.
I think maybe some resentment about that gets built up, and it's much easier to let it off online in a high-minded tirade against somebody unsuspecting and unrelated than it is to really be there in the moment of the conflict, and handle that well. Sometimes when people say they don't care if a person is gay or straight, what they mean is not that they want you to tiptoe around them and avoid putting pictures on your desk, but that they'd rather everybody just got over it and acted natural. My colleague Tom once said to me that he just assumes everybody he works with knows he's gay, and is really surprised when they don't. I think that's a pretty healthy attitude.
"You say these reasonable
By Molly
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 11:28am
"You say these reasonable things in an unreasonable manner so that I can berate you?"
Oh yeah? Well, I could say the same to you, Mister Intelligent-And-Reasonable-Discourse!
Hm...that didn't work so well.
Anyway, I pretty much agree with everything you said up there, and you're totally right that other people's neuroses aren't my problem...but for some folks, that neurosis builds up into rage, and then I could get killed for being queer. Within the past week, a trans woman was killed in her apartment in the Bronx and a 15-year-old gay kid was shot to death at his school, and wow am I getting off-topic here.
It's a safety issue in that way; whereas I think if queers were more visible and more people realized they actually know and like one or two, that would go a long way towards making the whole thing the non-issue you and I both wish it were.
I like the way your colleague thinks. But I have to say there's a difference between "not caring if a person is gay or straight" and "not caring if someone's gay as long as I don't have to know about it".
(And I can vouch that eeka would totally say the exact same thing to someone in person that she did online; she's not one to let stuff go by and then stew about it until she needs to attack the INterwebs.)
just under the wire
By cynical
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 11:41am
And just when I'm ready to (mentally) write off a commenter for wasting his typing on the annoying and usually-anonymous ghetto-phobes, he goes and says something that warms the cold cockles of my cynical heart.
Stop Using That Word...
By Suldog
Fri, 02/15/2008 - 8:52am
... as a pejorative. I've always considered it a rather endearing trait, myself.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
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